Dunga

Ha! Try living in Duluth! Yeah the E63 seems built with smooth German roads in mind. Still we got used to it but I can definitely see where it may be a big deal if you have back problems.

chiromikey

I don’t think anyone ran with it, it’s just true. I don’t know about the Hondas but drive an M5 or RS7 in comfort mode and you’ll quickly understand what’s missing (but shouldn’t be) from the E63.

Slugsy

I’ve definitely got used to mine and the change of tyres has definitely helped but no matter what, the M5 is softer to drive in Comfort mode.

AMG 17GT

Does this extend into July?

CanuckE63

Try the new panamera and you'll see what handling should be like in a vehicle this size.
The ride harshness kept me away from buying the E63S Wagon, i so wanted to love it.
We just took the panamera on a road trip with the family and in comfort mode our toddler slept like a baby, it was so smooth and comfortable of a ride.
In sport or sport plus it's firmer but still not as firm as the E63S in comfort mode...go figure.
Hopefully MB it taking notes for future development.

Dunga

It rides harsh no doubt. My corvette seems softer in its “comfort” mode. E63s comfort is comparable to Sport in the Vette. Was your RS7 performance model? I understand those dumped the conventional adjustable air ride for conventional steel springs that were much stiffer.

chiromikey

I have the RS7 with DRC (steel springs) and it is stiffer than the air version. However, in dynamic mode it’s more firm than the E63 in sport+ but still not as harsh as the E63 is any setting. Comfort mode in the RS7 blows the E63 away. It’s actually smoother/softer than my buddy’s S550.

CanuckE63

I had air suspension in my old RS7. I tried the drc version and it was brutal, no way Jose.

chiromikey

The DRC is brutal in dynamic mode but in any other suspension setting it’s a far better ride than my W212 E63 which in turn was noticeably less harsh than the W213. It makes you scratch your head as to why AMG can’t get their comfort mode any better. Even GM can do that!

Meeru

Almost 3 F90 M5’s have blown up recently just with a downpipe and tune. The rods shoot through the block. Tuner is based out of NY/NJ

chiromikey

I’ve never heard the term “almost 3” before...

Meeru

The 3rd one is in question right now LMAO

MuffinFlavored

I saw one of those threads of M5Post. Dealer quoted him $60k to get the block replaced (labor + parts). It made me curious about this setup:

Somebody on the MBWorld posts said they were able to do this successfully:

1. get an E63S
2. buy another ECU
3. get a friendly tech to help you with Xentry to flash the other ECU
4. tune one ECU, keep the other stock
5. bam, working model to have a tune with a warranty + avoiding flash detection

however, somebody on the M5Post forums said that would not work because if Mercedes or BMW investigated hard enough, they could figure out your VIN and the ECU serial number they assigned you at time of building don't match.

If it truly is "almost 3" (lol) people who have blown their block... I read in some forum post on M5Post (aka there is a FAT chance it is wrong): say there are only 300 people or some buying M5 tunes, and you have 3 blow up. That's 1%, right?

Who is to say we have full detail on both numbers: a) how many blow up b) how many tunes have been sold so far? I would have guessed more tunes but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only 300 people in the country/world are crazy enough to want more power.

pghc63

back to the subject
agree with op that MB has to do something with these crazy high lease deals
we can debate M5 vs E63 all day long and I had both f10 M5 and 212 E63 but both are great cars
currently looking at the M5 as next car and not E63 and one of the main reasons is leasing prices... The E63 is not worth 500-600 more a month.....
The competition is at PAR with MB and in some models even better
recently I shopped C43 for my son and on a 70 k car leases were 800-900 with fleet discount and I love the car
did end up with M3CS which is a fantastic car for similar price .... MSRP on that car was 111k
C63 was 1400 a month

Wolfman

My thoughts:
A few members (notably Vic, Limeypride, Quickburn) moved from the E63s to the M5 and all seem to like their M cars right now. Good enough for me to consider the car. I have driven the M5; it's a very nice car and all but for me there would be zero reasons for a lateral move unless I can drop a couple of doors (aka M8). Unless people get the itch to switch cars in a year or have bad luck like Quickburn, switching makes no sense.

To me the E63s simply looks better (am partial to the Night Black Magno) and sounds better. The M5 looks/sounds too tame IMO but with the appropriate amount of CF add-ons, springs, spacers, new exhaust for non-comp cars and the car will look/sound the part.
Without a doubt, the M5 is the faster car of the two, at least the competition model and can go faster with a simple piggy tune but frankly all these cars are wicked fast and none can be leveraged in normal traffic. We live in MN, a state where people will go below the speed limit without traffic and then won't let you pass. Passive aggressive crowd

If leased, the difference in money is real and taking the M5 over a, let's say CLS53 or E53 is a complete no-brainer.

MuffinFlavored

> currently looking at the M5 as next car and not E63 and one of the main reasons is leasing prices... The E63 is not worth 500-600 more a month.....

I don't really strongly disagree nor do I strongly agree.

M5 has better tuning culture (if that's your thing)

Speed: M5 is like, slightly quicker in some measurements.

Suspension: M5 is more comfortable suspension wise.

Service/dealership experience: I know this changed for 2017+ models, but BMW treated me like a king. Free brake pads, free clutches (when I had a manual M5), free rotors after I warped mine/cracked them from getting them too hot. I think you can pay for some kind of discounted rate on wear + tear items. Not sure if oil changes are free for BMW while they are not free for Mercedes without the prepaid maintenance.

M5 comes with soft close doors + massage seats + upgraded sound system more easily than E63s (since they bundle it all into an executive package, where as if you're trying to find a Mercedes at a dealer with those options, it is 3 separate options to tackle, if you aren't building your own car)

Looks wise: a tossup. I like the E63S looks more and the front radar thing on the M5 is kind of an eye sore to me.

Exhaust, Mercedes.

Driving dynamic/ability to feel like a hooligan: not sure. I think I read historically it was the ///M cars that were "raw" but this time it is the Mercedes?

Transmission: I think Mercedes but people on the forum will tell you the ZF on the ///M is just as good if not better.

$500/mo more is actually a 40% increase in price ($1,250/mo vs $1,750/mo)

Nobody here is going to agree that the E63s is 40% better than the M5 all around...

but honestly... the M5 really has no business being that cheap. You can pick up a used 2016 F10 M5 with medium to low mileage on it for... $40-$50k. Assuming $120k MSRP, that's $70-$80k depreciation in not even 3 years. That's $2.2k in depreciation alone a month...

Wolfman

Mercedes has excellent lease deals but not on big-engined AMG's. Here they are somewhat in line with Porsche and Audi's poor rates.

The BMW is cheap on leases but they tried to get closer to reality for the 2019 models. They dropped the residuals by 10% over the 2018 models just 3 months after the intro of the car. This didn't go over well and they eventually bumped the residual back up 5%. They will still take a bath given the depreciation MuffinFlavored mentioned.

Speak of another deal; I know that people like to crap all other the new Vantage but I still think this is a very cool car and should be worth a look. Just read in another thread (W222) that the $170K+ 2019 Vantage goes for $1599 a months on a 3yr/10k miles a year lease. First 3 months free. Even cheaper than what I saw several months ago.
Aston Martin featuring the same M177 AMG 4.0l engine (detuned) and MB electronics, mated to a 8 speed ZF like the M5.

AMG 17GT

Can anyone chime in on the same numbers for the competition? Thank you

pghc63

M 5 competition is around 200-250 dollars extra a month as compared to regular M5
reason
Competition is 8 k more MSRP
so far BMW does not have the 5 k rebate on them for lease
but I do believe that is coming very soon

AMG 17GT

Well that doesn’t take into account 55% residual. So it should be 150$ or so unless residual different.

Anyone that sees the 5 k on a competition let me know thanks.

MuffinFlavored

what does the competition package really offer? 15 extra horsepower and stiffer suspension?

Vic55

The key driver is in the discount (your 14k is on the high high side since there is 10% from msrp to holdback and most of the "best deal" sampling is at 10%). The residual is no better than Benz in most cases or very close but the MF is indeed a gapper. But the main part is the pricing where Benz stores will hold up to 6% in holdback giving only 6% or often less off the car while BMW has way too many M5's on the market (2019's) with 2020's already around the corner. Its a good time to lease the car no doubt but be prepared to keep the car from the start to finish because they depreciate worse than E63S's. BMW M5's have always generally leased better than their AMG E competitors. The only way to get there right now is with a strong gross cap cost.

Vic55

As stated, same residual with no rebate but.... deals are to be had as the car has higher price point and isnt moving.

10% is a bit of a grind on the West Coast but you can get there easier where you are. There is a stock M5 CE running 10.8XX at 129.XX- its a very capable car.

MuffinFlavored

What about the money factor? Isn't MB USA known for charging 6% interest on leases while BMW charges less?

The M5 + E63S residuals were the same for a few months (around 56-57%), but weren't there some cases where BMW residuals were 62%, etc.?

MuffinFlavored

> deals are to be had as the car has higher price point and isnt moving.

can't the same *not* be said for Mercedes because dealers will laugh at you if you ask for 7-10% off of this car?