Mercedes Suspended V-8 Sales Over "Quality Issue," AMG Boss Says
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AMG E63 Hammer Wagon. Alfa, Rover, Ferrari, Porsche.
Can we just leave it a "there are a lot chips in modern vehicles and demand currently outstrips supply?" This argument is getting a bit pedantic!
Besides, we all know the real reason is clearly emissions related. (I kid)
Besides, we all know the real reason is clearly emissions related. (I kid)
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'19 E63S sedan
Thanks for chiming in, Whoover. Agree that 6x6x2” is not realistic. That’s why I gave the range…
Anyhow, was able to find newer data, closer to home: A-class infotainment
pls see at https://electronics360.globalspec.co...-stack-display
This report shows 5 key ICs (Xilinx, Maxim, NXP)
Main components
Since Moore’s law is still true for the older process technologies that automotive industry is using, this 2018 solution has 2 - 4x less ICs today, due to 2x increase in the density every 18 months. Which translates to 1200 modules !
I still don’t see how one could stash 3000 chips=ICs in the car!
Not even the EQXX….
Anyhow, was able to find newer data, closer to home: A-class infotainment
pls see at https://electronics360.globalspec.co...-stack-display
This report shows 5 key ICs (Xilinx, Maxim, NXP)
Main components
- $182.22 – Dual display/touchscreen subsystem (Qty: 1)
- $20.53 – Main support (Qty: 1)
- $8.55 – Xilinx FPGA XA6SLX25 (Qty: 1)
- $3.86 – Cable flex for dual display/touchscreen subsystem (Qty: 2)
- $3.60 – Maxim MAX9282G GMSL deserializer (Qty: 2)
- $3.29 – NXP SPC5605BVLQ4 automotive 32 bit MCU (Qty: 2)
- $3.14 – Back cover (Qty: 1)
- $2.47 – Ornamental frame (Qty: 1)
- $1.94 – Bracket holder PCB (Qty: 1)
Since Moore’s law is still true for the older process technologies that automotive industry is using, this 2018 solution has 2 - 4x less ICs today, due to 2x increase in the density every 18 months. Which translates to 1200 modules !
I still don’t see how one could stash 3000 chips=ICs in the car!
Not even the EQXX….
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2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
I agree that this thread has run its course, but I want to say you still don't seem to get what a chip is. For instance, I see at least a dozen chips on the first board in your link. I am quite certain my E63S has thousands of chips onboard rather than hundreds. And almost 100 subsystem controllers ("ECUs"). And that the average subsystem controller is responsible for components (including itself) populated with tens of ICs. If you're skeptical, that's your right.
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2021 E63S and 2025 GT63
I agree that this thread has run its course, but I want to say you still don't seem to get what a chip is. For instance, I see at least a dozen chips on the first board in your link. I am quite certain my E63S has thousands of chips onboard rather than hundreds. And almost 100 subsystem controllers ("ECUs"). And that the average subsystem controller is responsible for components (including itself) populated with tens of ICs. If you're skeptical, that's your right.
How about the allegations about chips expertise- pick your favorite answer:
a. Could not count beyond 5 today, or
b. Don’t want to waste my time with somebody clueless about chips used in the automotive industry
LOL
Extra curriculum exercise: if your e63 has 3k+ chips, what is the probability it will fail sooner than my 300 chips e63?
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2021 E63S and 2025 GT63
The Hermes module is still MIA for those whose vehicles were produced with a credit and a promise to install that unit some time in 2022. It really doesn't make a difference if there are thousands of chips, just the supply for all of the needed ones. There could be one crucial IC that is used in several of the ECUs. That's enough to limit production or to stop it if there are no alternatives. I suspect that the Hermes module is being redesigned with more modern ICs to address the shortages of the older chips. This is one time where trying to save a few cents has cost $100,000's of profits for the automakers.
Penny wise and pound foolish….
There is another thread where members are kept in the dark about Hermes module availability. Dealers have no clue, calling the MBUSA customer service is useless: they will advise to contact your dealer. Circular reference, no transparency and a major drop in customer orientation. Like we are here for them and will take whatever they build…..
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From: San Jose area
'19 E63S sedan
The Hermes module is still MIA for those whose vehicles were produced with a credit and a promise to install that unit some time in 2022. It really doesn't make a difference if there are thousands of chips, just the supply for all of the needed ones. There could be one crucial IC that is used in several of the ECUs. That's enough to limit production or to stop it if there are no alternatives. I suspect that the Hermes module is being redesigned with more modern ICs to address the shortages of the older chips. This is one time where trying to save a few cents has cost $100,000's of profits for the automakers.
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'25 S63 AMG E Performance, '26 CLE 53 AMG
IMHO, the real reason MB cut v-8s to the US market has to do with EPA Credits for GHG. It is about the almighty dollar (or whatever world currency we are talking about such as Euro).
• Manufacturers continue to have a large bank of credits to use toward compliance in future model years, however, about two-thirds of the current credits will expire after model year 2021. MB has to buy credits since their entire fleet is not generating credits but has to buy credits to keep the MB car fleet in compliance.
• Manufacturers continue to have a large bank of credits to use toward compliance in future model years, however, about two-thirds of the current credits will expire after model year 2021. MB has to buy credits since their entire fleet is not generating credits but has to buy credits to keep the MB car fleet in compliance.
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2019 C63CS
IMHO, the real reason MB cut v-8s to the US market has to do with EPA Credits for GHG. It is about the almighty dollar (or whatever world currency we are talking about such as Euro).
• Manufacturers continue to have a large bank of credits to use toward compliance in future model years, however, about two-thirds of the current credits will expire after model year 2021. MB has to buy credits since their entire fleet is not generating credits but has to buy credits to keep the MB car fleet in compliance.
• Manufacturers continue to have a large bank of credits to use toward compliance in future model years, however, about two-thirds of the current credits will expire after model year 2021. MB has to buy credits since their entire fleet is not generating credits but has to buy credits to keep the MB car fleet in compliance.
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MB has begun to inform dealers that GLE, GLS, and G-Wagon V8's will be returning with builds beginning in May (likely branded as an early 2023 model but unconfirmed) but no news sadly on the E-Class.
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2024 GLE63s / 2016 GLE63s (traded) / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
Thank G: You Can Still Order a Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Despite Reports
Thank G: You Can Still Order a Mercedes-Benz G-Class, Despite Reports (motortrend.com)
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2024 GLE63s / 2016 GLE63s (traded) / 2016 E63s / 2002 E55
"A few models are still missing, including the AMG E63, the AMG GT63 4-Door, and the AMG GLS63"
Mercedes Reinstates Some 2022 V-8 Models, Including G63 and GLS600 (msn.com)
Mercedes Reinstates Some 2022 V-8 Models, Including G63 and GLS600 (msn.com)
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AMG E63 Hammer Wagon. Alfa, Rover, Ferrari, Porsche.
R&T got a non-answer when they inquired about the AMG E's. Go figure.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...des-v8-models/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a3...des-v8-models/
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As many have stated, I think the reason was for overall emissions compliance. I think this might explain why they are releasing more 2022s in SUVs but not the E. I guess the question will be whether they release a 2023 E63 before the new version comes in 2024.
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2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
Last edited by HBerman; Feb 2, 2022 at 07:30 PM.
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E90 M3
I don't see how it is emissions related, rather prioritizing the most profitable models (here that equates to SUVs...) They are heavier and have worse emissions, and also sell on higher numbers. So I don't see how it is an emissions issue. Whether the E V8s come back or not we'll have to see but I am optimistic either as a final year of 213 or 214. I just don't see anybody willing to pay $150k+ for a four banger plus electric no matter the performance. It also doesn't really address the fleet emissions suspicions others mention above of they do that and keep the SUVs running V8s. Maybe I'm missing something.
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I don't see how it is emissions related, rather prioritizing the most profitable models (here that equates to SUVs...) They are heavier and have worse emissions, and also sell on higher numbers. So I don't see how it is an emissions issue. Whether the E V8s come back or not we'll have to see but I am optimistic either as a final year of 213 or 214. I just don't see anybody willing to pay $150k+ for a four banger plus electric no matter the performance. It also doesn't really address the fleet emissions suspicions others mention above of they do that and keep the SUVs running V8s. Maybe I'm missing something.
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No more MB:(
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2024 GLE63s, 2021 E63s, 2018 GLC43
Full electrification, ICE-beating performance, >400mi range in a luxurious package is clearly the future.
Hang on to full gasoline V8 until that day arrives. On another note, I've ordered a Rivian R1S to replace my GLC43, because as far as I can tell that day has arrived for the SUV (aside from production limits/delays).
Hang on to full gasoline V8 until that day arrives. On another note, I've ordered a Rivian R1S to replace my GLC43, because as far as I can tell that day has arrived for the SUV (aside from production limits/delays).
Last edited by taphil; Feb 3, 2022 at 11:35 AM.
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2021 E63S and 2025 GT63
Full electrification, ICE-beating performance, >400mi range in a luxurious package is clearly the future.
Hang on to full gasoline V8 until that day arrives. On another note, I've ordered a Rivian R1S to replace my GLC43, because as far as I can tell that day has arrived for the SUV (aside from production limits/delays).
Hang on to full gasoline V8 until that day arrives. On another note, I've ordered a Rivian R1S to replace my GLC43, because as far as I can tell that day has arrived for the SUV (aside from production limits/delays).
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/veh...k-of-effiency/
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2019 C63CS
EQXX 1000 km range good enough?
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/veh...k-of-effiency/
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/veh...k-of-effiency/
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No more MB:(
The EQXX is a study in efficiency. It looks way more powerful and faster than it actually is. It only has a 200hp single motor. It's not a performance car at all, but it's going in the right direction with curb weight, but it also shows that in order to address the biggest issues of EVs, weight and energy density, you can't really build electric performance cars, at least not yet.
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Out Of Control!!
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2019 C63CS
Really requires entirely new battery technology, which will be very expensive initially. Even the best estimates project that solid state batteries won't reach the price point per kwh of today's batteries for at least a decade. And it remains to be seen what this does to charging times. You can't charge a battery infinitely fast. More range/energy requires bigger batteries. Solid state promises more kwh/kg, but more kwh means longer charging times. The best 100kWh batteries today can be charged to 80% in about 30 minutes. Make that a 200kWh battery and it's an hour at the current charging rates. Solid state batteries might be able to sustain higher charging power for a longer time, so that should shave off some time, but you can only realistically pump so much electricity into a battery per minute. The batteries might be able to handle more in the future, but the charging parks also need to be able to deliver it and in parallel if more than one car charges at the same time.
Last edited by superswiss; Feb 3, 2022 at 05:30 PM.
