Jons550

I have had my 2019 E63s for just under 3 months and like other AMG models I have it has displays that show HP, Boost, and Torque. I tried mine today and could not get either the HP or Torque above 500. I was in sport + mode accelerating onto a highway with pedal depressed all the way. Not that it should matter, but I was at about 6,900 feet elevation at the time. What am I missing? Thanks.

Obviously, the image below is in the garage. I did not take one while trying this on the highway :-)

W205C43PFL

Here is some information that might help provided by another forum member: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ml#post8779681

Jons550

Thanks very much I will post in that other thread.

Jons550

I checked that other thread out and saw it was for C63. The numbers they discussed were in the right ballpark for a c63. I had a GLC 63 (2021) and it seemed just about right. I also had a GLE63s and the numbers seemed right for that as well - it was a 2019. I am not going to worry too much about it but it does seem wrong. I have had screens on other cars that were much worse than this :-)

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

The model can 100% be used to determine if your car is running correctly, but I don't believe it is truly accurate. Personally I can tell the difference if I put bad gas in my car. That said, prior to my PTG tune the numbers I got were accurate to stock numbers, and now I peak at 758hp which is around what my tune should be doing at the crank.

Jons550

Yes, I would have expected just a bit north of 600 for HP and about 20 over that for torque figures on my stock 2019 E63s. It it read that, it would be consistent with the other AMGs with that screen that I have had. The car 'feels' like it it running fine though.

superswiss

As I said in the thread linked above for the C63, the numbers displayed are calculated and not actual numbers. Boost pressure should be pretty accurate, as that is measured. These displays are a good indicator to see if the engine is performing as it should. Lower hp/tq than expected is the first indicator that the engine might be in soft limp mode, and if boost isn't at max under WOT, that's a good indication that there's a leak somewhere. Having said that, in your case you were at ~7000 ft. While forced induction engines can compensate for altitude as long as the turbochargers can support the additional air volume and shaft speed, in reality for boosted street cars you'll see a power loss eventually at higher altitudes, especially since our turbos are smaller for better low to mid range response and generally fall flat at the top, but our engines have virtually no turbo lag in exchange.

Jons550

Yup the boost looks OK. I was at WOT. So do do you think the about 15% lower numbers on my car are due to Altitude? The other cars I noted were also at this altitude so I don't think that is it. In terms of limp mode, it seems to pull too strong for that.

superswiss

It's possible. I honestly don't know how much these engines lose for every 1000 ft, but for reference a naturally aspirated engine loses about 3% of its power for every 1000 ft, so at 7000 ft that's about a 21% loss. You are definitely at less than that, so it's plausible. I would have hoped for a smaller loss, but but as said, the smaller turbochargers run into constraints at the higher end.

Jons550

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate it. As I said, I max out both torque and HP around 500 with is in the 15% ballpark. The car feels fine. It pulls very well. The only confusion I have is that my other cars did not show this loss (at least on the meter) at the same altitude. A test I might do next time I go to the "big city" is see how it does down there. It is about 1,000 feet lower so, I should see a slight increase on the gauges. BTW - I agree, this car seems to have the lowest turbo lag of any I have had.

superswiss

Probably will be hard to tell with just 1000 ft difference. I live at sea level and regularly drive up to about 2000 ft on my canyon runs with my C63. Can't really tell a difference in power by the seat of my pants and hard to make out any material difference in the gauges. Definitely noticed a power drop with my previous naturally aspirated car, though, even at those elevations. It's been a while, but I sometimes head down to SoCal and drive up in the canyons above LA at 5500 ft. Again, my previous naturally aspirated car was noticeably down on power at those elevations, but from what I remember with my C63 the subjective difference was much less, but then it also has about 60 more horses than my previous car and almost twice as much torque. My previous car had a high revving V8, so to make power it had to be wound out and essentially kept above 7000 rpm.

W205C43PFL

You didn't have to : ) like you said different car, I thought I share that thread I came across as it might be helpful in answering your question. Sorry it didn't help.

Jons550

No problem. Thanks for the information. I am wondering how different the M177 in my car is from the engine that was in my 2021 GLC 63. I have started using an E10 gas which is permitted according to the manual and wonder if that could have an impact. Also where I live, there is no such thing as 93 octane gas. At these altitudes 91 is the best you can do. I am going to see if I can find some 91 octane that is not E10.

taphil

The hp and tq on my display goes to the max 600 in comfort mode when I mash the pedal, not even to the click, driving uphill in a straight line.

Jons550

Thanks. What is your elevation, and what gas are you using?

superswiss

The US spec tunes make full power at 91 octane. That's all we can get here in California as well, and we are at sea level mostly. 93 isn't producing more power w/o an aftermarket tune that takes advantage of the higher octane and you might have noticed that aftermarket tunes don't add all that much power if you run on 91. They require at least 93 in order to deliver the promised gains.

Ethanol technically produces more power, because it burns faster and more effective than gasoline. However, a gallon of ethanol has less energy content than gasoline, so mpg is lower with ethanol. E10 doesn't make all that much of a difference. The ethanol in E10 acts mostly as octane booster and oxygenizer, but you might have noticed that some hypercars, specially Koenigsegg require E85 to make the rated power. They make significantly less power on other pump gas. Ethanol is also highly corrosive, so the fuel system has to be designed to support it. The M177 like most engines today is designed to support up to E10. If you go higher you have to replace the fuel pumps and some other stuff. The EU spec engines are tuned for the higher octane in Europe. US and Europe uses different octane ratings. Europe use RON and US uses AKI. 91 AKI is about equivalent to 95 RON, which is only midgrade. Premium in Europe is 98 RON, which is about equivalent to 93/94 AKI. I did European Delivery with my C63 and they retuned my engine for Europe and then when it arrive in the US they tuned it for the US octane. This was specifically called out in the paperwork I got.

Here's a good video from Engineering Explained if you wanna learn more about Ethanol vs Gasoline.

Jons550

Thanks very much. I like his video's, I am going to check this out.

taphil

Less than 500ft. Gas from Costco.

There's old threads here about lack of hp/tq when some flap in the exhaust is stuck closed.

You are at a lot higher elevation.

Jons550

Yes, I think the elevation might have an impact. I am just wondering why it did not with my previous AMGs -- a least from the HP/Torque gauges in the cars. I tend to think/hope, there is nothing wrong with my car because it 'seems' to run great otherwise. BTW the gas I have been using is from Sam's club. I may go back to Shell if it is not E10. Otherwise it is not worth the price difference.

superswiss

Oh that's an interesting data point. Are you familiar with what Top Tier gas is? It's highly recommended by AMG themselves to only use Top Tier gas in these engines. Top Tier gas has the required extra level of detergents to keep the high pressure direct fuel injectors clean and also in the past keep the valves clean, but with direct injection the fuel no longer washes the intake valves. However, you don't wanna end up with a clogged injector. That can quickly turn into a very expensive repair. Sam's Club gas is not Top Tier. Shell is. Costco is as well.

https://www.aisleofshame.com/is-sams-club-gas-top-tier

Jons550

Thanks. Based on this, I will likely go back to Shell. I read the article in the link and it said Sam's has their own package, but that does not by itself seem to make it a top tier gas.

W205C43PFL

I see, I never have experience with E10 so my apologies in advance that I don't have further information.

W205C43PFL

I use Shell too but many folks here use Costco which forum member superswiss verified is too considered as Top Tier gas.

s2000sel

Can you do me a huge favor and confirm where on your 2021 e63s where the boost and hp gauge tops out? I am dealing with what seems to the be classic exhaust flap issue but the dealer is telling me everything is fine. My boost gauge is only going up to 1/3 of max and HP is topping out at 350 hp.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Almost definitely the exhaust flap issue.