When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
New member here. I recently came across the Rear main seal issue with my 2019 E63s at 57k miles (owned since 43k). How many labor hours is everyone seeing for a RMS and Oil separator replacement? I have a Fidelity platinum warranty and am running into an issue where they only want to pay for 18 hours, and the dealer is saying it will be 38 hours of labor (seems high). I will be going in to the dealer tomorrow to get a more detailed repair estimate to see where such a large discrepancy. I’m on a couple of forums on Facebook for owners and seem to be seeing anywhere from 20-28 hours with repair estimates that varied a lot (still far fewer hours than my dealer is quoting). Just want to get a general consensus on how many hours it really takes. Thanks!
Yeah there should not be that much of a difference. Fidelity uses ALLDATA labor times "Industry’s #1 choice for vehicle repair technology, delivering the latest, unedited OEM mechanical and collision repair information and procedures for 95% of vehicles on the road today."
This is a little bit of a habit hole but bear with me...
ALLDATA is used by UTI: Universal Technical Institute
UTI students are ASE Certified, ASE also uses ALLDATA
UTI offers a "MB Drive program is geared toward individuals looking to pursue a career at a Mercedes-Benz dealership. This manufacturer-paid program is highly competitive."
MB dealerships use OEM pars that are often made by BOSCH, who also have a relationship with ALLDATA.
Thanks for your reply. I think you’ve made a few posts on the E63s forum on Facebook as well as I recognize the name highline autos!
Based on what you’re seeing, do you think that the dealer is quoting too many hours or that Fidelity is either unaware of the extent of the repair or lowballing the dealer? My repair includes the RMS as well as the Oil separators.
From messaging on the Facebook group, my dealer’s estimate did seem high, and I spoke with them about that this morning. My advisor said that after speaking with his foreman, they brought the hours down from 37 (plus a one hour diagnostic charge) to 34.5, so not a huge difference. I spoke with two independent shops without telling them what my dealer billed in hours, and they were similar when it came to labor hours 32-33. I’m waiting on quotes from two other dealers I contacted later in the day today.
I have attached a screenshot of the parts replaced and labor quoted by my dealer before they brought it down to 34.5 hours. I understand that these cars can sometimes be higher maintenance and I’m no stranger to German higher performance cars. I’m just fed up with the fact that there’s such a massive discrepancy between the quotes in labor and that Fidelity refuses to cover despite the service manager, foreman, and technician speaking with the inspector that went to the dealer to approve the repair. My dealer’s rate is only $165 an hour, so it is lower than many, but it sounds like Fidelity is only concerned with hours.
That makes sense. I want to see what other dealers are quoting which I should have by the morning. I agree that mine is quoting a little high. That said, 18 hours seems low on fidelity’s part.
Thanks for your reply. I think you’ve made a few posts on the E63s forum on Facebook as well as I recognize the name highline autos!
I have attached a screenshot of the parts replaced and labor quoted by my dealer before they brought it down to 34.5 hours. I understand that these cars can sometimes be higher maintenance and I’m no stranger to German higher performance cars. I’m just fed up with the fact that there’s such a massive discrepancy between the quotes in labor and that Fidelity refuses to cover despite the service manager, foreman, and technician speaking with the inspector that went to the dealer to approve the repair. My dealer’s rate is only $165 an hour, so it is lower than many, but it sounds like Fidelity is only concerned with hours.
There's a lot to this i'm unaware of since you did not purchase the warranty though us, I can not see your claims and activity log in the Fidelity system. I will say though my customers have had RMS repairs without any issues, even full transmission failure, no problem! I think you may be right, if Mercedes of Beverly hills wants to charge an extra $100 per hour in labor, but only charge 20 hours, Fidelity would probably just pay the extra 2 hours and move on.
I will say though, warranty work can get sideways depending on who in the service department at the dealership is doing the talking. I've had customer's service managers try to de-rail approved 3rd party warranty work for no reason, others submit incomplete repair orders, or don't check their email when the warranty company has already electronic payment for a couple thousand dollars, and are instead calling the customer over and over claiming they can not receive payment.
Thank you for the insight. In my case, I made sure that my service advisor made it clear exactly what would be replaced and double checked the labor hours with my foreman (who actually brought the hours down by a few). I’ve never had a bad experience with my service department on previous vehicles I’ve owned as far as not following up with the third party or repeatedly calling me for lack of payment from the third party. On that note, I have a number of friends and family who have purchased Fidelity platinum contracts and had a great experience covering even larger repairs, which is why I purchased the contract. I will be speaking with Fidelity tomorrow after I receive labor quotes from two other dealers in my area, as I have already received quotes from two independent Mercedes shops in my area and they are close to what the dealer quoted in terms of hours. I want to be fair to both parties here, but I will also do whatever I can to get the repair covered.
I haven’t gotten to call Fidelity today or the other dealers as I am swamped with work. Will update when I do. What is unusual is that the website says that they’re open till 9 but when I call the number on the website it says they close at 6.
Alright after a couple of days where I was unable to get through to Fidelity due to hold times and a busy schedule, I was able to finally call today and get through to someone in claims. After explaining the situation thoroughly to the representative and the part numbers replaced, I had him run numbers on the job making sure to account for the oil separators as well. They explained what I expected them to that the Alldata numbers add up to roughly 18 hours.
The specific breakdown according to them was 11.2 hours for the separators (seems about right or a little high), 5.7 hours to drop the transmission for the rear main seal (seems low), and 0.5 hours to actually replace the seal once everything is apart (seems about right).
I explained that that was not in line with Mercedes numbers from the dealers I called, and that their repair manual calls for a different number of hours. The representative on the phone said that this is a frequent issue he runs into with Mercedes with labor hours, and that he advised that I have my service advisor or the shop foreman submit a dispute for hours, and that they make sure to reference the Mercedes repair manual for the hours needed at which point they can come to an agreement. Honestly at this point, if they can to some type of an agreement that gets me close, I’ll be fine with paying a few extra hours myself, as I’m tired of this back and forth.
I suppose you can relay your findings (from Fidelity) and discuss with the mb dealer of the big hours difference. 16hrs or so difference x say $180 per hrs is about $3,000
tech is saying it does not need it, but the real reason why I found out from my service advisor (who happens to be my friend) after talking to him in person is the tech working on my car says MB pays **** amount of hours for the job that is a pain in the *** to do, which is kind of bull**** cause its his job! He told me all work is covered under 24/m warranty anyways because my factory warranty ends in Oct so if it does leak again they will need to re-fix it for free.
.. or dealer hopes your warranty runs out first and then the issue of separators was the cause by then in which you will have to pay out of your own pocket
tech is saying it does not need it, but the real reason why I found out from my service advisor (who happens to be my friend) after talking to him in person is the tech working on my car says MB pays **** amount of hours for the job that is a pain in the *** to do, which is kind of bull**** cause its his job! He told me all work is covered under 24/m warranty anyways because my factory warranty ends in Oct so if it does leak again they will need to re-fix it for free.
If they're telling you the separators aren't the cause of the excessive crankcase pressure, what are they claiming is?
His claiming there is “no excess pressure it’s just leaking”
That is a good one. Just started leaking at 30,000 miles without excessive crankcase pressure. Pretty sure the one they install will eventually also leak for no apparent reason.
2024 AMG EQE SUV , 2021 E63S Wagon - gone, 2018 E63S Sedan - gone
Originally Posted by Sunbeltgolfer11
That is a good one. Just started leaking at 30,000 miles without excessive crankcase pressure. Pretty sure the one they install will eventually also leak for no apparent reason.
Several videos have discussed the offending units, but all explain that the RMS is being sucked into the crankcase and that excessive vacuum is the issue, not pressure. It makes sense as the RMS is being distorted towards the crankcase and not away, Regardless, the M177 engine is a ticking time bomb for repairs. Items that have been called out are RMS, crankcase ventilators, valve covers and gaskets, EGR valves, engine mounts, and coils. Ownership is to be prepared to spend much money on repairs. When the engine is running properly, it's great. Sort of like going to Vegas when the table is running hot.
Several videos have discussed the offending units, but all explain that the RMS is being sucked into the crankcase and that excessive vacuum is the issue, not pressure. It makes sense as the RMS is being distorted towards the crankcase and not away, Regardless, the M177 engine is a ticking time bomb for repairs. Items that have been called out are RMS, crankcase ventilators, valve covers and gaskets, EGR valves, engine mounts, and coils. Ownership is to be prepared to spend much money on repairs. When the engine is running properly, it's great. Sort of like going to Vegas when the table is running hot.
This is how it is with MB.
MB is inconsistent with new car delivered quality and "dealer experience". Inconsistence is the very definition of poor quality.
MB has poor medium term and terrible long term reliability.
MB is a low quality manufacturer of unreliable products, and does not stand behind their products.
Several videos have discussed the offending units, but all explain that the RMS is being sucked into the crankcase and that excessive vacuum is the issue, not pressure. It makes sense as the RMS is being distorted towards the crankcase and not away, Regardless, the M177 engine is a ticking time bomb for repairs. Items that have been called out are RMS, crankcase ventilators, valve covers and gaskets, EGR valves, engine mounts, and coils. Ownership is to be prepared to spend much money on repairs. When the engine is running properly, it's great. Sort of like going to Vegas when the table is running hot.
Interesting. I've not heard that or wasn't paying attention.
03-25-2024, 10:37 PM
