Red66GT

Thanks to all that have replied. And with all due respect, I think the responses I have received from Michelin are absolute BS. I just received my second letter from them explaining that my tire was in a runflat condition. And I cannot but help but disagree with their assessment.

My E430 runs smooth as a baby's ***. And if I had a tire that was running just a little low, it would pull to one side.....immediately. I understand that I have aftermarket (bigger) wheels and tires. But I have done my homework. I understand that a bigger tire can pose problems. But if my tire was too big, and rubbed on suspension parts, those suspension parts would have a shiney, bare metal look to them. This is not the case.

I'm your typical car guy and am very maticulous. I check my fluid levels and tire pressures consistently. On all of my cars. Especially my Mercedes. And anyone who has low profile tires on their car can agree....when you have just a slight low tire pressure, you can tell immediately. This tire was only a few months old and failed under normal driving conditions. I didnt hit any debris. My tire was not rubbing on any suspension parts or the fender prior to failure. I purchased the same size Kuhmos since my blowout and have checked frequently for any tire rub or any anomolies. Nothing so far.

I have seen and heard from others with these same tires, who have experienced the same results. And have concluded these tires are crap. At this point there's no reason to try and fight Michelin. I'll just turn it into my insurance to fix the damage to my fender. But I will never spend any more money with Michelin.

Honestly, if a tire is really run in a "runflat" condition, how come both sidewalls dont have damage? Makes no logical sense to me. The sidewall that did not blowout was perfect. There was no blistering or separating at all. Please, I emplore anyone to explain to me if I am incorrect in my assessment.

RedG

You need to get a authorized Michelin dealership to back you to Michelin directly. The first one you went to doesn't sound like he really wanted to help out, or that he just isn't that heavy a seller for Michelin. I'll tell you again Michelin is very appreciative of its dealers and customers, and if you had one (an authorized dealer) backing you the story is totally different. Take it up with another dealership.

I did, what specifically do you need to know other than a runflat condition can certainly happen only on one side of the tire? In fact I see it on a daily basis, would you like for me to gather pictures?

Red66GT

Unfortunately Michelin has the tire, and yes the dealership I went to the guy had the attitude that I was putting him out. Plus his shop was really busy that day so he didnt have time for a customer he wasnt going to make money on.

I've seen plenty of pictures, Michelin keeps sending me the same pamphlets with pictures in them. I just cant wrap my brain around how a tire that is low on air can have one sidewall blister and disintegrate, while the other remains perfectly intact with no damage. It seems physically impossible. It makes absolutely no logical sense to me.

RedG

Not sure how else to tell you other then it happens, you are going to have to accept the consensus of a Multi-billion dollar tire company that it happens. What does it benefit them to lie to you and risk your business? Or worse government scrutiny? You realize how all-up-in the government is to a tire companies business ever since the firestone/ford problems in the late 90s?

Red66GT

You're missing my point. I've accepted the outcome. I will turn the damage to my car into my insurance.

I just want to understand how this can happen to a tire. If it does happen, I want to understand it.

RedG

Well, it was on the inside only correct? The brunt of the weight the tire is requested to handle is on the inside of the tire. As a result of the weight being on one side moreso than the other and having a low pressure problem leads you into one side having a failure from a 'runflat' condition.

The tire's air pressure is not only designed to hold the vehicle load, but also to prevent excessive heat buildup. The only reason tires wear or fail from improper air pressure is heat resulting from friction. Here are some pictures on Edmunds website (ironically supplied by Michelin).

Below is a tire at 30psi:


Below is the same tire at 25psi:


Notice the temperature changes even at a small pressure difference. The tire WILL fail at its weakest spot first, always. It isn't always the case that it fails on both sides. In fact it never does. The side that gives first forces the other side to give and eventually tear away, giving you your familiar scenario.

I'll try to take some pictures of failed or failing tires in the next few days so show you different levels of run flat in different stages.

Red66GT

Thanks RedG. The one thing that turns the lightbulb on for me is your statement "The brunt of the weight the tire is requested to handle is on the inside of the tire." I had not thought of this. But it makes sense. I still cannot believe that there would not still be at least a little bit of blistering on the other sidewall.

RedG

There probably is some very minor blistering that just isn't visible to the untrained or naked eye. I have a tire in my shop today in fact that shows nearly NO external signs of damage and has only minor 'runflat' wear on the inside, and only on one shoulder no less. I'll try to get pictures tomorrow.

RedG

Here are some pictures of a tire that exhibits 'runflat' wear both externally and internally.

Picture #1 - Important to note that on the interior liner on this side there is no visual cord body exposed.


Picture #2 - The below picture is the outside of the tire (opposite the above picture). Note that you can hardly see any signs of wear externally, not really giving us any external signs that the tire has suffered from a 'runflat' condition.


Picture #3 - Note on this side of the interior liner that you can see visual splotches where the cord body is exposed.


Picture #4 - This is the opposite side of the more severely worn inner liner. Note that you can actually see a few cuts and holes where the outer liner had even started to break down from the 'runflat' problem.


Hopefully these pictures help you, and the others here.

Picture #4 - The

Red66GT

Thanks RedG. I appreciate the pics and your insight. I cant help but think that the slight blistering on the outside sidewall is a product of the inside sidewall failing. It takes you a few hundred feet after the inside sidewall fails to pull over to the side of the road. So of course when the tire loses all pressure due to the inside sidewall failure you are driving on a "run flat" tire which causes the blistering on the outside sidewall. Sorry if I'm obsessing, but I know 100% that my tire that failed had 100% of it's tire pressure before failure.

RedG

I'm glad it helps some. Each situation is different and it doesn't mean in your situation that it wasn't a failed tire, it happens. From experience I'd have to think there were some prior issues especially if the tire was defective or suffered some sort of damage resulting in the failure.

You said the fender liner wasn't damaged or scuffed at all right? What else was damaged besides the tire, and fender?

Dtv211

I too have Riken raptors. Absolutely hate them.

Red66GT

I'm not sure if the fender liner was damaged or scuffed. Honestly I didnt look. I only had the tire off at the side of the road. I'll have to pull that tire again and really take a good look. I do know that there was no tire rub on any suspension pieces. I look at the upper ball joint as I had feared that my sidewall was perhaps rubbing on that and that's what caused it to fail. However, there are no shiny or rub marks on anything on that inside sidewall side of the tire.

I will never cut corners and try and save a few bucks on performance tires again.

cts03

SAME THING happenned to me this morningggggggggggg going to a work seminar with a coworker. I was driving on highway and BANG!!! Tire blew...split...just like picture above....and now I was 1 1/2 hrs late for a seminar, but MORE importantly could've been killed! It was not necessarily pleasant. I just got the tires on 2000 miles ago (november 08). I am LIVID and was unable to handle the situation, as i ended up changing the tire w/a spare, and pulling off at a rest area and calling other coworkers to pick us up.
Now, tomorrow mornig first thing I will be handling this, and this is first time I ever had these tires, and would LOVE them off all my rims. this is insane!
how should i handle this, as i no longer feel safe with these tires on my vehicle?
any help is appreciated

Red66GT

cts03, Riken Raptors? If so, I sense a pattern......

VetteRoadster86

We bought 2 Riken tires of our friend's SLK230 on her 50th birthday to complement the two new Riken's that had been put on the used car just before she bought it. At 4,000 on the original two tires, I noticed the tread was starting to delaminate on one tire. Since she was not near the dealer where the tire was bought by the prior owner, she went to a nearby dealer who agreed it was delaminating and told her to replace that tire and the one with the same date code that was installed at the same time.

She brought the two tires to the dealer where it was purchased and he agreed the tire was delaminating and filed a warranty claim with Riken. The paperwork was lost 3 times, including the photos that I attached to them and now, after 7 months, Riken said "she spun the car" which is complete B.S. They haven't answered the question as to why the other rear tire shows no sign of having been spun since it was on the same axle as the delaminating one.

Although Riken is a subsidiary of Michelin, I recommend you never again by a Riken tire and am not even that keen on Michelin's anymore. My dad bought a set of 4 Michelin's for his Honda Accord and, one by one, they became out of round. Michelin would not honor his application for warranty coverageas well.

I started working with tires when I was 13 and have mounted, balanced and repaired more tires than I can count. I've spun out my 86 Vette a couple of times, so I know what spun out tires look like. Don't let Riken give you any B.S. answer. We are still trying to get the warranty honored and will continue to spread the word of Riken's lack of integrity and poor customer service.

Ken

Red66GT

While I appreciate everyone's posts to help explain, I agree with Ken. I will never buy any Michelin product ever again and will steer people away from them as well. I am not satisified with their handling of this. Not that I expected them to pay for much, but I did expect at least a logical explanation with truth and facts. I got the runaround.

vettdvr

I think you guys are missing something. Given 1 brand of tire failing and similar failures. This is a real safety concern. Would you want your wife driving this car on these tires and have a blow out on the intestate?

I would recommend you consider the National Transportation Safety Board and file your information under highway. This way enough information can be compiled on a tire to determine if there is a need for recall. A tire mfg can still deny the failure but given enough of the same failure the data will answer the question. I would also recommend you KEEP the failed tire and let the MFG know you will keep the tire and not dispose of it!

This way the NTSB will have evidence if they investigate. Just a suggestion on the NTSB who can help on these safety issues.

tomcio

Thanks to a google search I have found this thread. Couple weeks ago i was doing breaks on my car and noticed that my 2 front riken raptor have side wall damage. I didn't think much of it and just bought new tires and decided to get rid of these peaces of crap that came on the car when i bought it. Why people put walmart tires on any car is beyond me.

While installing my new tires i snapped some pics of the bad rikens for everyone to see. Pics include size, load rating and batch/date code. They have about 40k miles, have even tread wear between front and back, as well as side to side. I know they were maintained properly and alligned every 6 months but the manufacturer can say what ever they want.

Fortunetly for me, there was no sudden loss of pressure.

Red66GT

OMG! Good thing you saw that before catatstrophe! I have since taken my lumps and scolded myself for buying cheap tires and will have insurance fix my fender damage. Perhaps send those pics to Michelin and see what they have to say. I'm sure they'll give you excuses as well, but would still be interesting to hear which brochures they send you telling you how you neglected your tires. I for one will never buy another Michelin product and will advise others the same. While I'm sure they deal with thousands of people trying to get them to pay for everything under the sun, I dont feel they gave me the time of day I deserved. I emplore you to take steps and keep us posted please! You've gone as far to search out this thread. Perhaps entice us more!

You say there was no sudden loss of pressure. Do you have slow leaks then?

Also, what car do you have?

Thanks!

Boostfreak

Sorry to bring out an old thread, My tire pulled the same thing that yours did I joind just to show that this is a common problem and something needs to be done about this, i have a 93 Cobra with 275/40-17's that done the same thing the tires were bought in april 09 and i noticed signs of distress but thought it was just rubbing my fender's,
Just a question how fast were you goin before the tire pulled its stun?

grane

When I bought my used g500 from the dealer they had new Nexen all terrain H rated tires. I was driving on a dirt road in Canada - 350 miles from the nearest MB dealer - and a stone cut the tire. The dealer had forgotten to give me the keys to the spare so we took the tire off and our guide got a ride to his camp with the tire. He took it to Canadian Tire 50 miles away where they patched it. Ford Tauruses with regular tires went up and down this road ok - it was a regular road not in the woods.

Nexen tires are cheap junk. Avoid them like the plague. My tire dealer says he carries them when someone wants a cheap tire but he doesn't recommend them.

I put the new Yoko A/Ts with the snowflake and they are terrific on road and off summer and winter. Not quite as good as Blizzaks on ice but one just drives carefully.

Dump the Nexens! Get a recommendation from Luke!

grane

I know that many AMGs require an XL load rated tire so perhaps this is the way for performance or safety oriented owners of any MB or similar vehicle to go in the future.

Never skimp on tires - it's one of the first things they teach you in safety driving courses.

Thoughts from the more experienced?

Sleepless in NH.

MatthewN2106

I had the same problem with 2 different Riken Raptor Tires. Both just blew out suddenly one was one the inside wall and one was the outer wall. I would NEVER buy another riken tire!!!!!!!!!!!! I take care of my carsm i check air pressure no less than once a month, and even more now that winter i apon us. i was just driving home and suddenely felt a vibration on the drivers side then boom!! and my car jerked off the road to the right luckly i was on a 2 lane road because i had my 6 month old daughter in the car and my wife. if it would have happened 2 miles down the road i would have ended up in a river. It's not fun changing a tire in 10 degree weather.

has anyone had success with Michelin on these problems and if so how is the best way to resolve this problem??

Samzebian

OMG just found this thread, I have 1 of these tires on my car right now (2 very old michelins on the back, 1 riken raptor in the front right, and one even cheaper off-brand tire on the front-left; horrible setup as of now I know)

My Accord's Rim cracked on this dumb tire, and I almost was about to order 4 more of these tires! Good thing I found this, thanks! (btw I don't own a benz but wish I did lol)

I've now got to decide what to get for my '03 accord, something all season, size 205/60/16, and most importantly NOT riken