ProjectC55

Ralston Bloodclot! Whats up!!

Lloydy is taking forever to finish his BMW and Tallman and I raced several times. I have nothing for Ricky(Lizard man). But YOU! That's different and I can hardly wait!!

Have you finally fixed that head gasket yet because the Talon is waiting oh so long!!! Please hurry up!

whipplem104

So why are we not racing the c class?

onewhippedpuppy

Project55, do you have a build-up thread on your C55 or other resources on doing the swap? I'd like to do a little reading.

ProjectC55

Against Ralston,Ralston's car is faster than mines. He only wants to race the C class because he knows that.

Why should I race it against him again? I can admit that his car was faster then ,but just not reliable! However, He lost because his head gasket blew. And this was when we were running on a mile stretch.

Why not race a four cylinder that would be more in his league like my Talon. That's what I'd like to hand him his *** with,my 4 cylinder.

ProjectC55

Yes but you'll have to search. Threads were started in Feb of 2k5.

solo36

ok lets set this thing straight . this is a MB web site and i have a c36t and i want to race your c55.if your talon is up for grabs then i can find some one to take it out,with anoth jap car but for now lets talk c vs c

ProjectC55

You own a C36T? That's a wagon. Well if I go F/I with my C we certainly can. And yes,you can invite the other japanese car that you don't OWN. That's fine,I know your SHOOK!

Carl 1Ralston 0 ZERO

I'm talking about a fair race,why would I race my "C" against your "C" when mines is N/A and your is F/I with almost 400+whp? Tell me ,where is your logic?

Race your F/I six against my my little F/I four cylinder,what's wrong,what's the big deal? Stop being a bird bro!

whipplem104

Projectc55 quote.
"Not to mention that I've raced a TTC36 ,murdered it up to 120mph even though he was coming ,until his head gasket blew!"

Sounds like it would be a good race from your words. Or maybe solo36 could turn his boost down to have 300 rwhp or less so it will be even.

solo36

Thank you whipplem104 a least someone gets it! I am not scared ,i would just like to show you what good fun and backyard engineering can do .oh and by the way last dyno was 449 whp @ 10 psi

whipplem104

First off solo36 that is incredible at 10psi. I can not wait to get my exhaust repl. to free up some flow.
Here is some progress on the new layout.

NitrogenBalance

So very jealous. Nice work. Looks awesome

AMS Performance

Hey Whipple,

That plenum is a bit shallow, Don't you want a bit more air volume in the plenty or at least bring the plenum further towards the velocity stacks so you can maximum the space. It seems a bit restrictive in its current position. Just a suggestion, other then that very good work.

These M104s are built like german tanks, those engines can take alot of abuse and handle lots of boost so I'm not surprised at 450wheel HP @ 10psi, very realistic.

Good luck. keep up the good work

whipplem104

There is actually plenty of volume. The bellmouth is 96mm wide. The two ends tapper down to 1 1/4 on side of the stack and 2" on the other. The other dimension is 4". And with the bellmouth the additional volume behind counts. So for a 1 7/8" total runner size at the base, I do not see a flow problem. The center of the plenum is plenty big. The other consideration is that the plenum gets too far over and too high. I gave all of this a lot of thought and decided to go forward with this design for now.

AMS Performance

Honestly on FI it doesn't really matter anyways since you have boost, so it should be fine. Hopefully she puts down some decent power.

ProjectC55

Or so the head gasket does not blowwwwwww! I bet it would be a good race. Just keep crankin and crankin it up!

Do you know how many times Solo has modded his car since we ran? No you DON'T. I've done nothing to my car ever since because I'm modding my Talon,just the same way he's modding his C36. His car is not the same as it was then compared to now..

His car is putting out at least 150 rhwp over my Benz.

In that case,common sense would tell me to race ProjectC55's Eagle Talon. After all,it's only a 4 cylinder with some backyard engineering as well! I say put the 449whp to the test. Let's see how much more time that request get's avoided.

Also Whipple,you still have not shown me a C36 turbo that would put out better #'s on the track compared to 3 different F/I 5.5L C classes I know in which TWO have run 11's and Two have run low 12's.

What's the deal. Or are you(solo) waiting for my next project which is to turbocharge my M3?

RBYCC

What you call the plenum is irrelevant.
More or less volume isn't a factor on a boosted engine, in fact it's only acting as a distribution manifold.

The length of the runners however can affect the power curve.

But as the self proclaimed "uber-tuner" you already know that

Example very, very small plenum, but making much power...

RBYCC

Talking out of both sides of your mouth ????

First you post about more volume, now you reverse yourself...

Did you Google the correct answer from Wikipedia...

whipplem104

Again, I am not sticking up for anyone, but in my research, I have found that most manifolds designed for boost are larger. I slaved over this for a long time and did a lot of reading. The general rule of thumb that I gathered was go for engine displacement to 20% over for a turbo or supercharged manifold. The space behind the bellmouths counts. This is for peak hp numbers though and rbycc is correct that runner length is much more important if you can get in to the resonant harmonics. I could never find out once out of the harmonic range how much difference runner length made. I could not get into the harmonic length and fit everything in. Also, I make enough torque that it is not terribly important to me. I plan for future designs to be more along my original idea and have shorter runners and the intercooler built on the plenum.
The question I was trying to answer is with the intercooler in front of the bellmouths, does it become part of the plenum or not? Decided it was something to play with.

whipplem104

For Projectc55, I would say that first the supercharged 5.5 is one fast machine.
And that I do not think that we are in the same price point anymore. Your original response was that someone should just trade their c36 for a c43 and do a 5.5 swap for the same results as supercharging or turbo charging their c36. Add a 15,000 dollar supercharger to that c55 and we are getting a little far from the original point. And solo36 at 440+ at the rear wheels is making more power to the wheels. We can keep going and add new cams and headers and ecu reprogram and get that 55 up to 500 rwhp and then we can add some nos.
I have seen a few 5.5 supercharged cars break also, stock and aftermarket. Besides if solo36's car is so unreliable then you should beat him with a slower car.

AMS Performance

No, you need to learn to read all the posts before making a response. .

Its better to have a large plenum but not absolutely CRUCIAL on an FI engine, thats the point I made. Its more important on an NA engine. 2nd off, I don't do FI engines, I don't like them and I am an NA diehard so boost is not something I am interested (NOS & etc as well). Just not my thing. There truly is no replacement for displacement.

ProjectC55

That is not what I said. here is what I said:


I said that a 5.5L motor is a more RELIABLE upgrade for a C43 vs S/C being put on a C36. Please quote me correctly,you're twisting my words..

I'll also say this again,there are TWO SL500's with F/I 5.0L m113 motors running 12's that are on this forum where the owners have not spent 15k modding their cars.

I don't think you'll convinve me that a 3.6L M104 has more power potential and can be cheaper to mod than a 4.3,5.0,5.5L M113 motor. So far there are TWO known Vortec charged 5.5L cars owned by members on this forum.

There is a $7k Vortec kit with soft ware which i'm contemplating purchasing also coming out for the 5.5l cars by the way.
Cheaper than the 15 k your claiming which would apply to a Kleemann charged 5.5l car.

ProjectC55

I can agree,however I wonder why BMW and MB plan on going F/I ?

Soon that theory will be no longer practical in today's high performance car market.

v0ac

I'm not a pro in engineering, but fine your 3.6L engine is a beast with a twin turbo set up or single even.
But the 4.3L is way more reliable engine, and put a single turbo on that..it would blow you away for sure, but will require higher maintenance as well like said above, i'de rather go with 5.4L engine swap anyday.
Clean, stock and powerful. and will keep car for 15 more years as collector !

while yours will be at scrap

AMS Performance

There is no replacement for Displacement when it comes to performance... when it comes to fuel efficiency its typically the opposite, very small force induction engines are going to be the norm like you said for both BMW & Mercedes (as well as the rest of the industry). Although smaller FI engines are not always super fuel efficient either (especially if you are talking about modded performance turbo-4bangers & etc).

AMS Performance

You would have to do a twin turbo setup on the C43 since its a V8. And the C43 is not necessarily more reliable under high boost. The best turbo tuning engines of our time have typically been Cast Iron block Turbo inline-6s (Supra, Skyline, M3, etc), and they blow many V8 Turbos out of the water. So when it comes to FI, a lot of times displacement/cylinders is not as important of a factor as properly designed engine with high quality strong components. Just my 2 cents