flowdrip

Last night going down the freeway, I had to slow to about 55 for a slowpoke ahead of me, when i tried to get back up to 65, my car started stuttering really bad. I floored the accellerator 3 or 4 times and it smoothed right out. About 2 miles on down the road it started doing the stuttering again and flooring it didn't work this time. I put it in neutral so I could coast off the freeway and that made the engine immediately die. Needless to say, it was towed home. I tried starting it this morning and it was like there was no gas getting to the engine. I siphoned some out and poured it into the carb and it didn't even come close to turning over. I had to have a timing chain installed when I bought the car 7 yrs ago and I seem to remember that when the timing chain broke, (again I was driving on the freeway when it happened) I had no idea what happened, just that my car turned over but wouldn't start. Do any of the mechanics out here on this site think that's my problem or should I be looking elsewhere? Thanks in advance for any replies.

slk230red

Is your engine a 2.3 or 2.6? You can remove the oil filler cap to see if the timing chain appears to be ok. If the engine momentarily smoothed out, then I doubt the problem is the timing chain. Be sure to check all vacuum hoses, especially the ones going to and from the Idle Control Valve. Check both ends for connectivity and cracks.
When you turn the ignition on, do you hear the fuel pumps (you have 2) operate for a second or two?

flowdrip

I have a 2.3 and I just checked the timing chain by removing the oil cap and it is intact and tight. (Yeah!) I can't find in either manual that I have for something called an 'Idle Control Valve.' Can you describe what it looks like and where I would find it in or on the engine. I also didn't know I had 2 fuel pumps! The only one I know about is under the car directly under the rear drivers side seat. It has the fuel accumulator, filter and pump all together. When I turn on the key, I do hear what I think is the fuel pump (maybe the 2nd one?) and it sounds like it is by the firewall in the center of the engine compartment. Would that be correct? Also it doesn't stay on for only a couple of seconds. If I don't turn the key and try to start the car, it continuously hums. I take it that isn't right. Why wouldn't my car start when I dumped some starting fluid down the carburetor? I really appreciate the help. I would be lost without this forum. Thanks again

slk230red

The Idle Control Valve is located under the air cleaner behind the fuel distributor.



My '93 2.3 has 2 fuel pumps. You'll have to look under the car on the driver's side below the rear door and take off the plastic cover to verify if you have 1 or 2 fuel pumps. If there is 2, they are side by side.

Check the vacuum hose connections on both sides of the Idle Control Valve, and especially the lower one that goes to the bottom connection of the throttle assembly. You should be able to reach your hand under the front of the intake to verify that it is connected to the throttle assembly.

After reading your original post again, you could have a defective Crankshaft Position Sensor.

flowdrip

OK I found the Idle Control Valve. Is it what MBZ labels as "Y6"? If it is, then I found the sucker. I attached 3 photos, one is the Idle Control Valve and the other 2 are of the hose that was attached to it. Do you think photo #3 is showing signs of wear????? Let me know if I'm on the right track or not. Thanks

flowdrip

Is that what that photo is of? How hard is that to install?

slk230red

Yes, Y6 is the Idle Control Valve. Replace those hoses and also the bottom one of the ICV that goes to the bottom of the throttle assembly, it's a 1 piece u-shaped hose. If the hose is disconnected at the top, bottom, intake, or bottom of throttle assembly, the engine will not start.

When I did my head gasket job 2 months ago, I replaced all of those hoses. They were cracked and brittle.

Also, did you check your spark plugs for spark?


http://web.archive.org/web/200606021...01_Chassis.htm

flowdrip

I will check the plugs now. Back in a second.

flowdrip

I didn't see any spark coming out of the spark plug I tested. this can't be good.

slk230red

OK, so that would explain why it wouldn't fire when you poured gas into the throttle housing.
I would check the Crankshaft Position Sensor at the Ignition Control Module. It should read 680 to 1200 ohms. Mine reads 851 ohms cold and 924 ohms at 80 degrees C. Pull the sensor off (it's on top, to the right of the vacuum connection).
You could also have a defective coil.

flowdrip

I can't test Crankshaft Position Sensor because I just remembered that my Ohmmeter is down at my job, my Benz is broken and my Pantera is getting new upholstery as we speak. In other words, I'm stuck at home until one of my neighbors gets home and that is usually after 5:30. If you were a gambling man and your car just stopped working like mine did, would it be more likely that the coil is shot, the ignition control unit is no good or how about the crankshaft position sensor as the culprit? I'm replacing all of the vacuum hoses at the Idle Control Valve (top and bottom) and I was just going to call my Mercedes dealer and see if they can drop the parts off to me. I'll buy whatever you say.

slk230red

I don't want to mislead you about which parts to buy, but by looking at your photos you definitely need the ICV hoses. They go bad anyway due to heat and age.

If you don't have any spark at the spark plugs, then I think you're on the right track. Did you check to see if the spark plug was wet with fuel after you tried to start the engine?

If the Crankshaft Position Sensor is bad, the Ignition Control Module isn't getting the necessary signal.

Possible problems: In order of $

1. Defective coil to distributor cap wire...part of regular maintenance/tune-up, included with spark plug wire set.
3. Defective rotor...part of regular maintenance/tune-up.
2. Defective distributor cap...part of regular maintenance/tune-up.
5. Defective coil. ($90 plus)
4. Defective crankshaft position sensor. ($120 plus)
6. Defective ignition control module. $$$ very expensive part!

Also, when was the last time you replaced the spark plug wires? Are you using the OEM type? Are you using non-resistor spark plugs (recommended because resistance is in the connector)?

A good electrician always has his VOM with him.
Hey, if your Pantera is getting new interior, then life can't be too bad. I remember looking at them new at the local Mercury dealer in Tampa.

flowdrip

Thanks for all of the info, and yes a good electrician always has his meters with him. I just didn't go to work today! How much were the Pantera's when you saw them new? Like $5-6,000???? I paid $24,000 for my white one and the GT5 I want to buy is around $100,000. I guess I'll just do a good tune up on my Benz and hope that fixes the problems. I'll let you know what the culprit was when I find out. Thanks again for all of your knowledge. I would of been up a creek without you.

slk230red

Yeah, I wish I would have bought one and kept it. At least I still have my '71 Vette, 55,000 miles and all original, but the lines on the Pantera's are really unique.

Good luck with the 190, and please let me know what you find out.

flowdrip

Wow your Vette is in mint shape! The singer of a band I was in had the same Corvette, same color. He let me drive it a few times (this was 30 years ago, before I decided to grow in height!) I was just about 5' tall when I drove it and it was a ***** to park it because I couldn't see the front end of the car! I thought I was a foot from his garage door, and I would get out and look and be 5' away. Next time I pulled in I stopped about 1/2" from the garage door! That was the last time I got to drive his Vette!.
Do you know if Kragens or Pep Boys would carry the vacuum hoses for the ICV? My Benz dealership told me they couldn't get them in an earlier than next Tuesday? That's too long to be without transportation. I hope I'm not screwed!

slk230red

Thanks, I've owned it since 1975. I bought it from a guy at work that bought it new and needed a larger car when his son was born.

I doubt that you will find the hoses anywhere other than a MB dealer, online parts store, or Independent MB parts store. These things always happen at the worst times.

Sounds like our pasts are similar. I played in bands in the mid to late '60's, then was a Telecommunications Tech. for AT&T/Lucent Technologies. I still keep a set of Ludwigs, Gibson SG, and Fender amp. to mess around....still sounds like the '60's when I play.

flowdrip

I think I found the problem. Check that. I KNOW I found the problem! I had a friend come over tonite and he brought his timing light with him. We couldn't get any spark out of the spark plugs, so I backtracked and had him check to see if we could get a spark out of the coil wire at the distributor. Had sparks there, so I took off the rotor cap and (see attached photo) you obviously know I'm not a car mechanic, but I willing to bet that the rotor should be in 1 piece to function properly!

I played drums until my entire 24 piece Ludwig set was ripped off out of a rehearsal studio. I didn't want to spend another 5 grand on another set, so I hung it up. 5 years later I ended up being the production/road manager of a band that my little brother started. After he quit, I went to work for them and did 2 world tours with them. The first tour we opened for Motley Crue for 7 and a half straight months! I think I got a total of 10 hours of sleep in that time! Kind of amazing how much abuse your body will tolerate. I told the guys in the band that I wouldn't go on tour again with another band like the Crue. What I remember of it was fun, but I didn't want to end up looking like Kieth Richards when I was only 30 years old! I was an 80's rocker, loud clothes, hair down to my butt and all spiked out on top. The only thing I really miss is the women from back then. Horny and wearing micro mini skirts and not much else! Now I'm just a middle aged fart asking people too many questions about MY car, instead of using that dormant piece of gray matter that's in between my ears and figuring out myself.

Looks like I'm going to have to push the upholstery guy into working a little longer and faster so I don't get stuck at home for almost a week.

I never did get your real name, but i want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. I thought this was going to be a really expensive repair but I got extremely lucky and it isn't going to cost much at all. I guess it is true that it is better to be lucky than good!

slk230red

Great news! I'm glad you found the problem. It just proves that it's best to look at all the basic stuff first. Since the rotor is shot, you should also replace the distributor cap and check your spark plug wires. I replaced mine with the Bosch OEM type.

When I rebuilt the head on my 190 in September (due to oil in the coolant caused by a failed head gasket), I went through everything and replaced what looked defective or worn out...hoses, front and rear engine mounts, belt tensioner, temp. sensors, etc. I probably touched every engine related component on the car.

Good luck with your car repairs and Happy Thanksgiving.

Dave



Head job in September:





Photos taken last week:

cheeseraid

my car is doing the same thing as this. but my solution is still nowhere in sight

flowdrip

OMG Dave! Our cars look exactly the same! Same wheels, same paint. This is getting spooky! Former musicians, both play drums and guitar, both own a white 190E. If you have a macaw (that's my baby, Oscar) I will die of laughter! These birds are pretty amazing how they can be hatched so butt ugly and 6 months later look like the top picture.
I will change out the plugs, wires, vacuum hoses while I'm at it. Be kind of silly of me not doing it while I'm doing the other stuff. I'm just glad it wasn't the timing chain. This turned out to be a rather cheap repair, thanks to you.

flowdrip

Don't despair Cheeseraid. If you describe your problem as exactly as you can to Dave, aka slk230red, either he, or someone on this great forum will steer you in the right direction. You have a LOT of MBZ mechanics on here and I doubt they have been stumped yet.

slk230red

No....I don't have any pets, but judging by your forum signature it looks like you like to play golf. I was a serious golf nut from 1988 to about 3 years ago. I kind of got burned out from playing so much. My wife and I travel quite a bit and we went to Scotland twice where I was able to play the Old Course at St. Andrews both times. Really had a great time!!!, lots of golf history there.

Then, in 1996 I played in the J.C. Penney pro-am golf tournament at Innisbrook. Our pros were Jan Stephenson and Chip Beck. It was an unforgettable experience and even more so since our team came in first place with a 59 under. We started the day on number 10 and when we made the turn and walked up to the first tee, the crowd was anxiously waiting to see John Daly tee off. He and Laura Davies were the Pros in the group behind us, so I really had to make sure I made good contact when I hit my drive. All went well, it wasn't nearly as long as our 'A' player's drive, but it had good ball flight and down the middle of the fairway. It turned out to be a special day and I had a great time participating.
Now I only play maybe once every 2 months.

Dave

flowdrip

I went to Scotland with 3 other guys for 11 days, 5 years ago and All we did was golf, drink and I was the only one that got to **** a little Scottish gal. She ended up waking me up at 5:30 AM telling me her husband would be home any minute. Not once did she ever mention a husband while we were in the pub or bed. My hotel was 2 blocks from her house and on the walk home a car whizzed on by and pulled right into the driveway I just left. Beat him by a good 30 seconds!

We played North Berwick, an hour after we got off of a 14 hour flight. Then 2 rounds at Dunbar, both courses at Royal Troon, then the Old Course, Then we played Prestwick and Western Gailes, Then both courses at Carnoustie, then Royal Dornoch and Turnberry, then Muirfield and Cruden Bay, the our last round was the Old Course again.

Now that's what i call a vacation! I slept the entire flight home. We did an Ireland trip 3 years ago with 8 of us but we didn't get to play as much as Scotland. I love the summertime over there. 16-18 hours of sunlight a day. Easy to get in 3 rounds and still go out to dinner and clubs. Unfortunately I don't play the game anymore since I herniated 3 disks in my upper back 2 and a half years ago. Workman's Comp still hasn't let me have the back operation I need. They are such *******s. To top it off, I was diagnosed with colon cancer a month ago so that will probably do me in before I get my back fixed.

So how nervous were you on the first hole of the Old Course???? My knees were shaking, I couldn't get my hands to dry off, and the scratch golfer that went with us, tees off first and hits his ball about 2 feet off the ground, directly left, across the 18 fairway, across the road and breaks a window at one of the shops there! Boy did that shot make my nerves a little more frazzled. I teed off 3rd and hit it straight down the middle and had a little 115 yd sand wedge onto the green. I wasn't nervous on the other 17 holes at all. The last day, when we played the Old Course again, the exact same thing happened. I don't get the 1st hole jitters ever, except both rounds at St. Andrews. That place is magical. I wish I could get over there to play it again, even just 1 more time!

Oh by the way.......Did everything to my car today, and it runs like a champ again!. I forgot that this was the Mercedes Benz forum, NOT the PGA forum! Thanks again, but I have to run. Talk to you soon!