Grey Market MBZ 190 2.3-16v?
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1999 CLK430 (w208)
Grey Market MBZ 190 2.3-16v?
I would like to confirm this info with all you experts please:
In 1986, if you come across a 190 2.3-16v, can it be either an American or European model? I understand the Euro model has about 20 more HP and some other performance features, poss some different cosmetic features as well. If so, what are the best ways to tell how the difference between the two? I await your guidance.
Thank you!
In 1986, if you come across a 190 2.3-16v, can it be either an American or European model? I understand the Euro model has about 20 more HP and some other performance features, poss some different cosmetic features as well. If so, what are the best ways to tell how the difference between the two? I await your guidance.
Thank you!
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1991 190E 2.3
The speedometers for the European ones are in kilometers/hour while the U.S. speedometers are in miles/hour, the European upholstery has cloth inserts in a checkered pattern while the U.S. cars are leather upholstery and the European ones have a hazard sign attached to the interior side of the trunk. On the U.S. models there's a hazard switch on the dash.You're correct that the European ones have about 20 more horsepower.. These are the differences I can think of off the top of my head. Hope this helps. Europe also got the much rarer 2.5-16v that the U.S. market never got.
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1999 CLK430 (w208)
Thanks
Solid info 190eFan, thank you so much! Love the grey markets! Even more rare. I saw a vid online with those specs too and the owner added quite a lot more. Apparently the two models differ quite a lot in some of the components used. Your info is super helpful and I believe accurate. Miss my 16v in the 80s! Always keeping an eye out. Thank you again!
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1991 190E 2.3
You're welcome. Glad I could help. I wasn't 100% sure as my W201 is a more mortal 8v but I wanted to try to help you. The grey market ones can be harder to find parts for in the U.S. MB's not a fan of the grey market cars in the U.S. BTW, low mileage, concours condition 16vs are really going up in price. They're now selling for what they sold for when they were brand new. Low mileage concours condition W201s in general are all going up in price. The rare Evo IIs have gone up so much in price and they're bringing the rest of the W201 universe with them. That works for me. My W201 and I are happy to ride on that train.Good luck with your search. Really good 16vs have been known to show up at www.bringatrailer.com. They've recently had an EvoII and a couple of EvoIs along with several very nice 8vs.
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1999 CLK430 (w208)
Absolutely!!! Been watching "Bring a trailor"...hopefully if I find a clean one, I can drive it home!!! Lol Yes, keep and enjoy your w201! As time passes, they will all become more and more rare. I have a '99 w208 (430), w/ Eisenman exhaust, RennTech airbox and etc. Want to do Butmore, but got a kid going to college this Fall. I really miss my 80s 16v, guess Im a bit old school. Evos are the ultimate in my book, besides the DTM CLK GTR...Dreaming!!! (Btw, first time Ive ever posted anything, been admiring and respecting this circle from afar for awhile). Thx again!
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Absolutely!!! Been watching "Bring a trailor"...hopefully if I find a clean one, I can drive it home!!! Lol Yes, keep and enjoy your w201! As time passes, they will all become more and more rare. I have a '99 w208 (430), w/ Eisenman exhaust, RennTech airbox and etc. Want to do Butmore, but got a kid going to college this Fall. I really miss my 80s 16v, guess Im a bit old school. Evos are the ultimate in my book, besides the DTM CLK GTR...Dreaming!!! (Btw, first time Ive ever posted anything, been admiring and respecting this circle from afar for awhile). Thx again!
I never intended to buy this car, wasn't even looking for it, kinda got backed into the purchase, ended up falling in love with it. I go between wanting to sell it for the money and keeping it forever about every other day. I'll say this - it's SOOOO fun to drive!!! I'll upload some photos soon but you can search IG for #canadiancosworth
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1991 190E 2.3
To add to the confusion, I have a Canadian Cosworth - Euro lamps, North American leather seats, Euro 185 hp engine (or whatever exactly its supposed to be), push button AC controls, KM speedo, and somehow, mine was imported into CA in 1987 and has been CA legal since.
I never intended to buy this car, wasn't even looking for it, kinda got backed into the purchase, ended up falling in love with it. I go between wanting to sell it for the money and keeping it forever about every other day. I'll say this - it's SOOOO fun to drive!!! I'll upload some photos soon but you can search IG for #canadiancosworth
I never intended to buy this car, wasn't even looking for it, kinda got backed into the purchase, ended up falling in love with it. I go between wanting to sell it for the money and keeping it forever about every other day. I'll say this - it's SOOOO fun to drive!!! I'll upload some photos soon but you can search IG for #canadiancosworth
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271 LEDER SCHWARZ
271A LEDER PERFORIERT SCHWARZ
444 CODE VORLAEUFIG UNGUELTIG
463 INSTRUMENT KM/H FÜR KANADA
491 USA-AUSFÜHRUNG
That 444 - Provisional Code Invalid may be the clue to the uniqueness behind this weird combo a euro spec car with us spec features. As I said, it definitely has euro lamps, but us ac controls. You can see the full list of options here...
https://www.mbdecoder.com/decode/WDBDA34DXGF148773
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'00 Acura ITR
190E 16V Euro Vs US
Regarding Euro (Grey Market) 16V vs US ('86 -'87) I've read all the replies, some of which may not be 100% accurate. I have an '85 Smoke Silver Euro I bought from the original owner about 20 years ago. And at about the same time I bought a Pearl Black '85 Euro, also from the original owner. I've since sold the black car latter, and I'm considering selling the silver car. Further to the topic, my 2 Euro's had: AC, sunroofs, Leather, Power windows, mechanical seats, and 3.07 rear end ratios. The option differences were: the black car had electric front seat warmers, the silver car has rear headrests. The other differences, the windshield wipers (due to production dates), and slightly different radiator and oil cooler dimensions, were due to production dates (black car VIN ending in 127977, silver in 131164), and not due to a difference in ordered options.
Below I've copied the most comprehensive info on the subject I've read. It's a fairly recent quote from a post on BAT by LEISTUNG AUTOHAUS, (likely among the two most well informed and qualified sources in the US.)
" @all lets clear a few things up about this Euro/US issue.
First lets start with the US cars there were only really 2 options that could be ordered and that was heated seats and rear headrests.
As for the Euro cars that were all brought in by importer companies not US mercedes dealers and mostly brought in before 1986. Not sure how the rest of the US worked but in california if you had a Euro/gray market car the US mercedes dealer would not even work on the car stating most of the time it was not for this market and we can not get the parts for it nor will we take the liability of fixing correctly any issues that the owner had with the car.
These cars that were imported back in the day had no warranty from mercedes benz north america at least not here in cali.
You could order this car in europe how ever you wanted. The right hand park wiper with the single squirter hood was an early 84/85 running change and had nothing to do with whether or not the car was going to a certain country for sale.
I have in my shop an early Euro 16v which was ordered with 4 power windows, sunroof, headlight wipers, and radio ready which meant wiring was there for the radio and antenna but no radio was supplied. This car has the right hand park wiper which believe me the entire cowling of the car is different for the mounting points of this wiper system. This car also has manual leather seats and had no ac when ordered new.
Once the car came to the states for federalization the km/h speedo was replaced and every Euro I have seen that was imported back in the 80’s got the 140mph speedo instead of the 160 not sure if this was for the differential ratio since all the euro cars in 85 got the 3.07 ratio instead of the US car got a 3.27 ratio.
Second I have another euro car which is also an early car as well that was ordered base base base. this means it literally had no options when it was ordered new. this car has the left hand park wiper that articulates. but has nothing else, cloth houndstooth interior manual seats/windows at all four corners, radio delete, no ac no rear head rests, no sunroof no nothing. When this car came to the US it also received the 140mph speedo
but both cars no matter the options have the wood trim around the shifter and only the shifter just as this car has.
I have been through more than 20 of these cars between owning selling and parting them out over the last 12 years and have worked on probably over 100 of these cars and at least 30 euro models and let me tell you on the euro models it is not any harder getting them in cali than the US models for 1 but for 2 most importantly the difference in options seen on the Euro car is limitless."
Subjectively I would add that from my experience the ~11% difference in HP between Euro's & US models is very noticeable, even though the Euro's have "taller" rear end ratios.
Below I've copied the most comprehensive info on the subject I've read. It's a fairly recent quote from a post on BAT by LEISTUNG AUTOHAUS, (likely among the two most well informed and qualified sources in the US.)
" @all lets clear a few things up about this Euro/US issue.
First lets start with the US cars there were only really 2 options that could be ordered and that was heated seats and rear headrests.
As for the Euro cars that were all brought in by importer companies not US mercedes dealers and mostly brought in before 1986. Not sure how the rest of the US worked but in california if you had a Euro/gray market car the US mercedes dealer would not even work on the car stating most of the time it was not for this market and we can not get the parts for it nor will we take the liability of fixing correctly any issues that the owner had with the car.
These cars that were imported back in the day had no warranty from mercedes benz north america at least not here in cali.
You could order this car in europe how ever you wanted. The right hand park wiper with the single squirter hood was an early 84/85 running change and had nothing to do with whether or not the car was going to a certain country for sale.
I have in my shop an early Euro 16v which was ordered with 4 power windows, sunroof, headlight wipers, and radio ready which meant wiring was there for the radio and antenna but no radio was supplied. This car has the right hand park wiper which believe me the entire cowling of the car is different for the mounting points of this wiper system. This car also has manual leather seats and had no ac when ordered new.
Once the car came to the states for federalization the km/h speedo was replaced and every Euro I have seen that was imported back in the 80’s got the 140mph speedo instead of the 160 not sure if this was for the differential ratio since all the euro cars in 85 got the 3.07 ratio instead of the US car got a 3.27 ratio.
Second I have another euro car which is also an early car as well that was ordered base base base. this means it literally had no options when it was ordered new. this car has the left hand park wiper that articulates. but has nothing else, cloth houndstooth interior manual seats/windows at all four corners, radio delete, no ac no rear head rests, no sunroof no nothing. When this car came to the US it also received the 140mph speedo
but both cars no matter the options have the wood trim around the shifter and only the shifter just as this car has.
I have been through more than 20 of these cars between owning selling and parting them out over the last 12 years and have worked on probably over 100 of these cars and at least 30 euro models and let me tell you on the euro models it is not any harder getting them in cali than the US models for 1 but for 2 most importantly the difference in options seen on the Euro car is limitless."
Subjectively I would add that from my experience the ~11% difference in HP between Euro's & US models is very noticeable, even though the Euro's have "taller" rear end ratios.
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From: SF Bay Area, CA
190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Are you going to auction it on BAT or sell it in forums like this one?
Where is the car and what is the maintenance condition like?
Looks great in the Picture!
EDIT: I see you have it on Autotrader. Good luck with the sale!
Where is the car and what is the maintenance condition like?
Looks great in the Picture!
EDIT: I see you have it on Autotrader. Good luck with the sale!
Last edited by dolucasi; Aug 22, 2022 at 12:22 AM. Reason: update
