Help with DTC error code number 10 and car flooded when starting
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79 300d
Help with DTC error code number 10 and car flooded when starting
I have a 93 190 2.3 that appears to be flooded while attempting to start. The DTC is reporting error code 10 throttle position switch closed throttle position contact. I am guessing that the computer thinks the car is at full throttle when it’s trying to start.
am I correct?
The throttle position switch is brand new and functioning properly I have verified that. Before I dig into the car and look at wiring diagrams and try to figure out what’s going on. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this.
am I correct?
The throttle position switch is brand new and functioning properly I have verified that. Before I dig into the car and look at wiring diagrams and try to figure out what’s going on. I was wondering if anyone could shed some light on this.
Last edited by MichaelBrown; Sep 18, 2021 at 05:57 PM.
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190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Never had this but I believe error code 10 is described as:
10 Throttle Valve Switch and/or Idle Speed Contact
Which probably means any time the Throttle valve switch is on open state (between closed throttle and WOT) if the Idle Speed contact (microswitch) is in the wrong state (suggesting you should be in idle) that error code is thrown.
So it could be either switches. If you already checked the TPS perhaps check your microswitch as well.
Take my advice with a grain of salt though since I've owned mine for eons and have not had to deal with your issue.
- Cheers!
10 Throttle Valve Switch and/or Idle Speed Contact
Which probably means any time the Throttle valve switch is on open state (between closed throttle and WOT) if the Idle Speed contact (microswitch) is in the wrong state (suggesting you should be in idle) that error code is thrown.
So it could be either switches. If you already checked the TPS perhaps check your microswitch as well.
Take my advice with a grain of salt though since I've owned mine for eons and have not had to deal with your issue.
- Cheers!
Last edited by dolucasi; Sep 18, 2021 at 03:17 PM.
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I pulled the ECU connector located the pen out diagram and verified that everything appears to be as it should. With the ignition off the deceleration Shut off microswitch and idol position both have continuity And the full load circuit has none. With the throttle fully engaged, the full load circuit has continuity in the idle does not. When they deceleration shut off microswitches disengage the polarity goes away. This all appears to be working as designed.
Last edited by MichaelBrown; Sep 18, 2021 at 04:23 PM.
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1991 190E 2.3
I'm wondering how you're coming to the conclusion that the car is flooded? Is it trying to start and not turning over or it won't try to start at all? Are you smelling gasoline? I'm just trying to get a little better picture of exactly what the car is doing to try to help you. I'm also thinking that just because you have current doesn't necessarily mean the system is functioning correctly because it's possible there's bad information getting into the system from some where..
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Hey there I know it’s flooded because I can see if fuel around the spark plugs. If you pull the fuel pump relay the car will sometimes start after it burns off that fuel.
when the car does start it runs fairly well with some odd behavior. If you press the acceretor up and down several times the car is fine and then all of a sudden the throttle will stick and the RPMs will rev higher and higher and higher you have to just shut the engine off.
then if you try to start it again you’re back to the flooded situation. Other times when it will start it will be in that full throttle situation and you’ll just have to shut it off and then you’re back to the flooded situation. Seems like there’s something going on with the full load and idle sensor position
when the car does start it runs fairly well with some odd behavior. If you press the acceretor up and down several times the car is fine and then all of a sudden the throttle will stick and the RPMs will rev higher and higher and higher you have to just shut the engine off.
then if you try to start it again you’re back to the flooded situation. Other times when it will start it will be in that full throttle situation and you’ll just have to shut it off and then you’re back to the flooded situation. Seems like there’s something going on with the full load and idle sensor position
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190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
It's good you checked the switches from the ECU side of things. So there is no doubt now, switches are good.
Your error code and the car's behavior could be unrelated.
If you erase the code does it come back? Sometimes those codes are in there for long periods of time.
Since I have an EHA gauge in my console, I can tell you that the EHA current only goes up by an additional 4mA or so from where it is when you activate WOT.
So a WOT signal may or may not be the culprit here even if there is a malfunction. As a comparison in chilly weather (50F) if you start the car cold the EHA current will start out a 10mA-15mA for warm-up. So ~4mA boost while rich should not completely flood the engine.
You have something else going on. Unplug the EHA and see how the engine behaves (after you warm it up)
Your error code and the car's behavior could be unrelated.
If you erase the code does it come back? Sometimes those codes are in there for long periods of time.
Since I have an EHA gauge in my console, I can tell you that the EHA current only goes up by an additional 4mA or so from where it is when you activate WOT.
So a WOT signal may or may not be the culprit here even if there is a malfunction. As a comparison in chilly weather (50F) if you start the car cold the EHA current will start out a 10mA-15mA for warm-up. So ~4mA boost while rich should not completely flood the engine.
You have something else going on. Unplug the EHA and see how the engine behaves (after you warm it up)
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First of all I want to thank you for taking your time to help me with this issue. I’ve struggled with it now for a couple of weeks.
if you erase the code, it comes right back as soon as the engine runs.
there are a couple of additional items to note… When the car does start and run it runs rough, almost like it’s missing.
Yesterday I did a fuel pressure test and was getting 5.4 bar in working which I believe to be in spec with the FSM. I was not able to get an accurate reading in control but with my gauges hooked up an EHA unhooked the car started and ran every time but not very well.
disconnecting the EHA at this time makes no difference.
I was beginning to suspect that the O2 sensor might be bad but I’m currently getting 40ma off that which I also believe to be in spec.
this is truly a frustrating predicament.
if you erase the code, it comes right back as soon as the engine runs.
there are a couple of additional items to note… When the car does start and run it runs rough, almost like it’s missing.
Yesterday I did a fuel pressure test and was getting 5.4 bar in working which I believe to be in spec with the FSM. I was not able to get an accurate reading in control but with my gauges hooked up an EHA unhooked the car started and ran every time but not very well.
disconnecting the EHA at this time makes no difference.
I was beginning to suspect that the O2 sensor might be bad but I’m currently getting 40ma off that which I also believe to be in spec.
this is truly a frustrating predicament.
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190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Your welcome Michael. When you unplug the EHA, the car returns to limp mode with no electrical assist for fuel injection, it is all mechanical.
So if you see no improvement and the car was running just fine prior this episode a few weeks back we can assume the FD was adjusted properly mechanically.
So this would eliminate a bunch of suspects, ECU, all sensors including O2 sensor, etc. etc except the EHA valve. That could still be messed up and stuck.
What is the idle when it is really running rough? Also do not rule out ignition issues. if the fuel is not burnt properly it will have the feel of rich mixture.
Are all spark plugs the same? Meaning wet with fuel.
The mystery is the code 10. I still think it maybe unrelated. But again when you unplug the EHA it can not effect the fuel mixture, now it could effect your idle speed which is why I asked the question about the idle speed.
So if you see no improvement and the car was running just fine prior this episode a few weeks back we can assume the FD was adjusted properly mechanically.
So this would eliminate a bunch of suspects, ECU, all sensors including O2 sensor, etc. etc except the EHA valve. That could still be messed up and stuck.
What is the idle when it is really running rough? Also do not rule out ignition issues. if the fuel is not burnt properly it will have the feel of rich mixture.
Are all spark plugs the same? Meaning wet with fuel.
The mystery is the code 10. I still think it maybe unrelated. But again when you unplug the EHA it can not effect the fuel mixture, now it could effect your idle speed which is why I asked the question about the idle speed.
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79 300d
Good morning I made a video of the car and its current state this morning. I figure it might be more productive for you to see in here. To answer your question, the car does have all brand new spark plugs, new spark plug wires and new injectors.
Here is the link to the video
Here is the link to the video
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190E 2.6L 1989, 190E 2.6L 1988, BMW 535dXdrive 2014, BMW 428i 2015
Very proactive, the video helps a lot Michael.
it is not surprising the the CEL light is triggered when you disconnected the EHA
It is not surprising that the car runs rough before it warms up with the EHA disconnected
Let it warm up and verify that it is indeed still messed up warm.
So since this was a JY destined car, we do not know the health of the FD.
I would put the FD itself on top of the list as the culprit. Especially at such high mileage.
Mine got replaced at 150K miles, with very similar symptoms as yours.
If you have another FD you can swap in, that's where I would start.
Happy Sunday!
it is not surprising the the CEL light is triggered when you disconnected the EHA
It is not surprising that the car runs rough before it warms up with the EHA disconnected
Let it warm up and verify that it is indeed still messed up warm.
So since this was a JY destined car, we do not know the health of the FD.
I would put the FD itself on top of the list as the culprit. Especially at such high mileage.
Mine got replaced at 150K miles, with very similar symptoms as yours.
If you have another FD you can swap in, that's where I would start.
Happy Sunday!
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1993 190E Sportline; 1992 190E 2.3
You need to check the lower FD chamber pressure. KE Jetronic calls the lower chamber pressure differential pressure not control pressure. The pressure differential should be .4 bar LOWER that system pressure. If not close to this spec, to will not run. You can set this differential pressure by an adjustment on the EHA valve. While you have the gauges out check the rest pressure and do a volume test.
Any time you change the FD or AFM you need to adjust the mixture. What exact parts did you swap out?
Any time you change the FD or AFM you need to adjust the mixture. What exact parts did you swap out?
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1991 190E 2.3
Thanks for posting your video. Its really helpful to see the car in action in order to try to help you diagnose the problem. It's sounds to me like it might be a combination of a bad seal and a fuel delivery issue. Finding gasoline in the engine bay as you are indicates to me that there's a leaking seal that needs to be replaced. A seal leaking gasoline is also a fire hazard so beware on that as well. BTW, you should never pump a fuel injected car because doing so can flood it. With a fuel injected car, there's already fuel in the injectors so pumping it only adds more fuel and that causes the flooding. I'm inclined to agree with Dolucasi that your fuel distributor may be the culprit. I would swap the FD from your parts car in just to see what happens. Also, you don't want to keep repeatedly starting your car any more than you have to because so many starts risks burning out your ignition and causing even more trouble. I would also suggest giving your engine bay a good cleaning and get rid of the layer of dirt that's also currently covering your engine. That dirt can get into various engine wiring and connections and cause all kinds of trouble. My engineer father was always a stickler for keeping the engine bay clean to avoid such possible trouble and to also help the engine run cooler as engines do when they're kept clean.
