rufrob

I'm fed up with the 16v 190. Starts then stalls. Eventually it will run after 10mins of this.
It floods really easily. Cleaned and sealed gas tank, new pumps accumulator, FPG, fuel distributor, injectors, new coolant temp sensor new OPV relay.
I've read all I could on KE Jetronic. I don't understand duty cycle.
Any ideas?
I bought it as a non-runner. Occasionally it would start and run normally but put a lot of black soot at the tail pipe.

dolucasi

Your air/fuel ratio is fine tuned when at operating temperature by the EHA, Electric Hydraulic Actuator (EHA).
Positive current at the actuator increases the fuel pressure to injectors.
Negative current at the actuator decreases the fuel pressure to injectors
Because measuring current can be a disruptive process mercedes ECUS's have built in convertors in them that convert this EHA current to a square wave voltage output.
The ON-OFF ratio of this voltage is called the duty cycle.
At zero current at the EHA the Duty cycle converted by the ECU will be 50%.
The full scale of the duty cycle (100%, 0%) is reached at +20mA and -20mA respectively. This can be engine dependent and smaller numbers for larger engines.

You should measure the duty cycle and see the value. My guess is a car like yours may have a bad FD to begin with so the numbers may not make any sense.

With your ignition ON engine OFF, measure the duty cycle and see if the ECU is giving you any fault codes. I believe your car should output 70% duty cycle.
If it is anything else, that is an error code. Search for the error code table on the internet.

190Efan

Great advice Dolucassi. I just had to replace the EHA on my W201 so I was thinking the same thing. My main symptom though was harder starts in a car that had always started the first time. I would additionally suggest that the OP check the condition of all of the engine wiring and rubber hoses and their connections as well as the condition of the fuel filter and the fuel lines. Be sure to replace anything that looks frayed or cracked and fully clean the connections as corrosion can also cause lots of similar trouble. Make sure that the fuel filter and fuel lines aren't clogged and replace anything that's clogged. You might also want to check the condition of the gas tank to see if there's any sludge in there that's getting pushed into the fuel system as that can also cause such issues. All of these things can cause the issues you've been having and especially since most of these cars now are more than 30 years old, Robber and wiring will deteriorate after this much time and will need to be replaced. My bank account will no longer speak to me because of the expense of having just done all of this, lol. BTW, the only varieties of the W201 that are any rarer than the 2.5-16v are the EVOs. Only 5,700 2.5-16vs were built so it's great that you're restoring this particular 2.5-16v. Please keep us posted on your progress and don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions. Pictures of your 2.5-16v would be great when you get the chance.

rufrob

Thanks for your prompt replies. I tried again last night and after resetting the flow by jumping the FP and adjusting the sensor plate screw it started. Maybe I was so scared of flooding it I leaned it out too much. Proof will be when I go to restart it today.
From front to back I've cleaned the fuel system and replaced most of the hardened rubber. There are a few in the engine room yet to be replaced.

rufrob

Same thing. It ran well yesterday. Today hard starting, lumpy idle.
The ASD light was in. First it gave me 3 flashes saying brake light switch. Replaced it and now 8 flashes OVP relay. In bought a used one. I noticed one of the fuses was burnt and it has rattle. Guess that means it's shot.
Could the OVP relay be the cause of all my trouble? And what's the correct PN for the OVP relay with 2 10am fuses. Most I see only have 1 10 amp fuse. Are they the same for the 2.3
The one I have doesn't have a PN

dolucasi

Without the OVP you were lacking cold start valve action, cold fuel enrichment, cold high idle and fuel mixture centering during normal operating temp.
In other words you were in "limp mode".
without it the car will run but it will be crappy cold and not optimum when warm.

Purchase a KAE (40+ dollars) or Mercedes one (60+ dollars). Do not put anything else in the car, it is a vital part.
I do not know what goes in your car. If you are near a dealership buy from them if the price is palatable or at least get the part number.

This may not be all of your problems, but if it is you have hit the jackpot with a non running cosworth.

- Cheers!

190Efan

I agree with Dolucassi, the OVP is a part you want to buy from MB because it plays such a critical role in your car's operation. Because of it's importance, the OVP is not a part you want to skimp on pricewise. My engineer father always taught me to go with OEM on parts because they will always work the best and be of the best quality for your specific car. You might also try reaching out to the MB Classic Center to help you find the MB OVP for your car as an additional good parts resource.

rufrob

Thanks. I will do so.
I bought this car to flip it. But hearing you all talk about it May persuade me to keep it. It's an automatic though. I already have a W210 E55, so would it be worth it to convert it to a manual.

dolucasi

That is a super rare car, but the automatic does not help. The date code on the OVP tells us it was produced in 21-October-2010 if I'm not mistaken. So it had >10 years on it.
I'm guessing the car must have heavy mileage on it. How many miles on the ODO, assuming it is working?

And yes, a manual transmission swap would significantly increase the value in my opinion. A new one of these (@ 11K miles) is on sale for ~$450,000 on BAT auctions at the moment and is being bid even higher. Not saying yours is worth that but they are rare, as you can see.

rufrob

I ordered the part from my local dealer. I'll get it tomorrow. The car has 112,000km on the clock. I put in a used OVP relay when I bought it. It took me a while to figure out it was tank rust and a very tire FD causing it to not start.
I cleaned the tank with vinegar and sealed it with something used on motorcycles here.
The interior is perfect. Paint not so.
A previous post said about 5000 where made.
I'm guessing less than 1/2 survived.
There is another one for sale near me for 7k. It's in way worse condition. It has nicer 17in EVO wheels though.

rufrob

Pics

190Efan

The W201 2.5-16v is rarer and more valuable than the E55 AMG and it will continue to go up in value. You're better off keeping your W201 in it's original as it left the factory condition because of it's rarity and original configuration. Originality is key in MB world because buyers want the cars to be as they left the factory. Interest in automatics is rising as more people who are now buying these cars want the automatics.

dolucasi

You have the smoke silver which is my favorate color for the Cosworth. If the interior is in good shape you may have to repaint the get rid of clear coat issues, but will need a quality auto paint shop for it so it does not drop in value.

70K miles or so is nothing on these cars. I thought it would have a lot more because a single OVP generally goes 100K miles before you run into issues. But as you said earlier you replaced the OVP with a used one (in the picture) so all the assumptions go out the door.

At that low mileage, it would not make sense to swap transmissions. It would be wise though to acquire the parts for a swap in the future. It may even prove helpfull in a re-sale. I assume dogleg transmissions are of super low supply and they may disappear some day.

Having owned a 201 and 210 for many years I would agree that once that Cosworth is sorted out, it will be many times more valuable than the W210-AMG.

- Cheers!

rufrob

You are all right. But the w210 has been close to the most perfect car I've ever owned. Never left me stranded. Fast enough to hold down a Diablo, stealthy enough to not get noticed and roomy enough to move house. It's rare wagon. I think only 1500 were made. The only issue with it is the criminal $1000/year tax I have pay here.
Guess I'll have to save money to get the 190 a proper paint job.
The $100 OVP relay will arrive around midday. Let all hope it works.
I'll have to swap the washer and ASD light lens too.
I got a new washer fluid level sensor but it doesn't work. Light out when it's unplugged and on when it's plugged in. I hope the OVP fixes that issue too.

dolucasi

Funny, my W210 was also a wagon but in white and 4MATIC. Excellent car for ski trips, hauling things, long trips. Only car I owned that could carry 10-foot timber in the car or on top, no issues.
Mechanically great for 100K miles, not a single issue. Interior plastic was suspect and brittle. Very heavy car with pretty decent MPG's on highway (30+) for the size.
Unfortunately mine bit the dust when the neighbor's 17 year teenager T-boned it with such force that the A-pillar bent in such a way it was not salvageable. Fortunately wife was not hurt and my young son was not in the car as she was going to pick him up from school not delivering him. Yours look better in black.

If you take care of that Cosworth it ill take care off you. Maybe you can get away with just painting the hood/roof/trunk? Usually the side surfaces remain in very good shape.
If you come across other running issues, post here and we'll do our level best to help you.

- Cheers!

rufrob

New OVP nothing changed. Still hard to start.


Here is it warmed up idling too high.

190Efan

An S210 AMG is also a rare car. Sounds like you've 2 keepers. Great MB bookends. As far as the W201 being hard to start, I still think the new OVP was worth it just to rule it out. My W201 recently started giving me a hard time starting and it turned out to be the EHA. This may or may not be your issue. It sounds like the maintenance on your car has been pretty badly neglected if done at all so a process of elimination is probably the best route for you to take. You mentioned that your fuel distributor was very tired. Should I assume you've replaced that? If there's moisture on the cap, that can cause such problems too. When you cleaned your gas tank, did you also check the fuel filter and fuel lines to make sure they're not clogged? It's also It's also possible that the culprit might be a leaking or a dirty fuel injector. Investing in some fuel injector cleaner might also be a good idea for you to do. Be sure to check your rubber fuel hoses as they crack and can leak at the age your car is at too. That will starve your car of gas and make it hard to start. I think the best thing to do at this point is to just go down the list of possibilities one by one. I also again encourage you to check all of the wiring connections and the engine wiring itself as the wiring can become very brittle and frayed with age and dirty electrical connections on their own can cause all kinds of trouble. I also would not grind your starter too much when you try to start your car because you might burn out your starter in the process. Typically, you should not pump a fuel injected car when you start it because ideally, there's already gas in the fuel injectors and pumping the accelerator pedal will flood the car with too much gas and make it harder to start.. If hard starting is your only mechanical issue, I would suggest you take your car out for a good highway run since you indicate your car hasn't run in some time. Be sure to only run premium gas in your car. Once you get your car out on the highway, stomp on the accelerator pedal a number of times and see what blows out of the tailpipe. Your car might be suffering from carbon build up and that's good way to help blow out the carbon. Growing up, I used to watch my engineer father do that with our cars. Keep us posted on your progress and don't hesitate to ask if you have more questions.

dolucasi

If you have high idle there are many reasons for that. You need to eliminate one at a time.

I would start with this:

As the car is running after it reaches operating temp unplug the IACV electrically. Does the idle change? Does it increase or decrease or stay the same?
In either case, plug it back in while the car is running and tell us what you observe? Does the car stall when you plug it back in?

Report on your results please.

rufrob

Yes I cleaned the tank and lines and several new filters pumps and assorted parts.
I can't see or hear any vacuum leaks and all but a few hoses are pliable.
I do like the idea of the highway run but I would really hate to be stranded there.
I'll go through all the systems again

rufrob

The IACV doesn't seem to have any impact on the idle. It used to go higher. .
Unplugged the cold start valve and................... And.................... perfect start and idle. I'll have the let us sit another day and text it again.

dolucasi

Trying to decipher what you are saying. So you unplugged the IACV and nothing happened. The idle did not change, you plugged it back in and also nothing, no change in idle, no stall etc. Please confirm.....

BTW, the only thing that dictates idle speed is IACV controlled by the idle control circuitry in the ECU (or MAS depending on the MY)
So you need not look for emission issues at this point.

If the first sentence in the post is correct and confirmed then most likely there is no power to your IACV. There are 2 culprits for that:
(1) Your OVP still is not powering the ECU or power to your ECU is somehow interrupted
(2) Somehow the wiring to the IACV is busted or the IACV is busted itself.

Next thing I would do is see if you have any voltage at the X11 diagnostic port pin 3 to pin 2. If there is no voltage there at all, your ECU is not powered up.

Report on that before you go to the next step.

- Happy Friday.

190Efan

It's helpful to know that you've cleaned the gas tank, fuel lines and checked the filters and pumps. Sounds like they can be eliminated from the culprit list for now. I would suggest you go ahead and replace the hoses that aren't pliable. Once the hoses get like that, cracking and leaking of the hoses usually isn't too far off so it's better to deal with that now before it becomes another issue.. There still might be carbon build up or a fuel injector issue so a highway run is an additional tool to see what your ca's behavior can additionally reveal about its condition. I would suggest having a friend follow you in another car, just in case there's a problem. I would then suggest after this that you now follow Dolucassi's further testing suggestions to keep ruling out possible causes of the problem. It'll be a pain to go through each one but that's the only way to finally find the problem. Let us know how you're progressing and what your car does with each test and hopefully we can help you finally find the problem.

rufrob

I mentioned in an earlier post that disconnecting the cold start valve made the high idle and hard start disappear.
Now it has a steady idle around 900rpm. The crank is a bit longer than I would expect but it starts after about 1-2 seconds.
I'll check for a cold start again in a couple of days. I'll also check for power to the ECU.
Also the warning lights on the dash are in the wrong order for the washer fluid and ASD.
The ASD light stays on with a new sensor and goes off when unplugged.
The washer light flashed the ASD codes.

dolucasi

So your cold start valve is making a difference in idle and lowering it if unplugged. That is odd and must be a secondary effect. And unplugging it makes the cold start somewhat harder?
Cold start valve electrically should have no effect on idle unless there is malfunction and it is constantly spraying fuel after cold start.

- Check if the cold start valve is on continuously on electrically when idling (by checking the voltage at the connector, with it unplugged or plugged)


As far as I know idle speed should not be affected by the CSV, unless if it is spraying fuel all the time and the ECU is compensating for that by increasing air flow to get the lambda correct.
I have to say, I have not heard of this before though.

rufrob

Unplugging the CSV made it start easier and idle properly. I'll check the ECU and other things tomorrow.
Now I'm happy all work except for the AC.
Just need to get the money together to paint it.