Code3 + ASP 1/4 mile results...Your children should leave the room
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
Unless you have upgraded injectors, and the proper tuning to utilize them, I would not drive your car at full boost. The simply fact is, your car is running dangerously lean. The car will make a TON of torque all the way to 4800rpm, then things get ugly. When LET did the tune for the dual pulley, they did not have any belt wrap setup. Because of the extreme amount of belt slip encountered, there doesnt initially appear to be any problems on the dyno. But once you add belt wrap into the equation, the tune can no longer compensate, and your injectors go static. Check out the dyno below. It has a tune + water/meth injection, and its not safe. We let off as soon as AF went through the roof.
On a different note, here is a dyno below with a mid size SC Pulley that I created. The dyno is a 178 + mid size. This is what I was working on for the 178 crowd. A sensible upgrade. The dyno below has no tuning. I put the overlay up from the stock 178 dyno. You can see it creates great additional power. +30rwtq peak +36rwtq curve - +15rwhp peak +30rwhp curve OVER the 178 on its own!
Best Regards,
Brandon
On a different note, here is a dyno below with a mid size SC Pulley that I created. The dyno is a 178 + mid size. This is what I was working on for the 178 crowd. A sensible upgrade. The dyno below has no tuning. I put the overlay up from the stock 178 dyno. You can see it creates great additional power. +30rwtq peak +36rwtq curve - +15rwhp peak +30rwhp curve OVER the 178 on its own!
Best Regards,
Brandon
My butt dyno was showing a power curve just like that; great power down low due to the very early onset of boost, but seems to drop off up top. That's where I'm looking at my day planner, just waiting for the 3rd-4th shift. It looks like I better stay out of it for a while.
I would like to make this combination work and am willing to upgrade the injectors and retune to do it, but if it becomes no longer feasible, when do you expect to have that mid-size pulley ready? It looks like it makes for some great gains at less boost than my current configuration. If worst comes to worst, I could sell my current Code3 on the black market (a.k.a. eBay), and invest in the mid-size version
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
The only issues with that is when you retune for the high mph and high end you loose a little of your low end torque. I have been working with Jerry on this for about a year now...I was able to get a 1.76 60' but the car would fall on its face after that almost struggling to get up to speed at top of 3rd/4th
I settled for the classic curve throught the entire range and couldnt be happier.
With my replaced sc intercooler I should easily be hitting 12 flat or very high 11's in good weather.
In actuality...4-5mph is a lot....
I settled for the classic curve throught the entire range and couldnt be happier.
With my replaced sc intercooler I should easily be hitting 12 flat or very high 11's in good weather.
In actuality...4-5mph is a lot....
I've already ordered my Code3 intercooler as well. Actually, I was thinking that my current, leaking intercooler might be part of my problem. I just realized today that I have lost over a quart of coolant from my intercooler circuit in just about a week.
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02 C32 AMG
+1
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Wow, thanks for the information Brandon! Look at that torque number My butt dyno was showing a power curve just like that; great power down low due to the very early onset of boost, but seems to drop off up top. That's where I'm looking at my day planner, just waiting for the 3rd-4th shift. It looks like I better stay out of it for a while.
I would like to make this combination work and am willing to upgrade the injectors and retune to do it, but if it becomes no longer feasible, when do you expect to have that mid-size pulley ready? It looks like it makes for some great gains at less boost than my current configuration. If worst comes to worst, I could sell my current Code3 on the black market (a.k.a. eBay), and invest in the mid-size version
My butt dyno was showing a power curve just like that; great power down low due to the very early onset of boost, but seems to drop off up top. That's where I'm looking at my day planner, just waiting for the 3rd-4th shift. It looks like I better stay out of it for a while. I would like to make this combination work and am willing to upgrade the injectors and retune to do it, but if it becomes no longer feasible, when do you expect to have that mid-size pulley ready? It looks like it makes for some great gains at less boost than my current configuration. If worst comes to worst, I could sell my current Code3 on the black market (a.k.a. eBay), and invest in the mid-size version
That's not the solution. Jerry and I have yakked at length on the phone about this issue. The solution seems to be a 170-173 crank pulley with the current Code III SC pulley. You're getting the boost you want (+20) but not "overboosting."
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2008 A8L, 2002 996TT X50, 2009 X5
EDIT: If you haven't already, read this chart (post #4):
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...highlight=Code
Last edited by c32AMG-DTM; Oct 26, 2008 at 07:33 PM.
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Well, it's really about the ratio, isn't it? Current C3P S/C pulley with a special 170mm crank pulley may yield the exact same results as a 178mm crank pulley with a mid-sized C3P S/C pulley
EDIT: If you haven't already, read this chart (post #4):
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...highlight=Code
EDIT: If you haven't already, read this chart (post #4):
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...highlight=Code
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back to my first post on this topic..
the first I would of done was to remove the extra intake CP3 to lower boost... maybe it would of help just a bit.
for a permanent fix.. smaller crank pulley or mid size SC pulley (in R&D from I understand)
the first I would of done was to remove the extra intake CP3 to lower boost... maybe it would of help just a bit.
for a permanent fix.. smaller crank pulley or mid size SC pulley (in R&D from I understand)
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
However, if I can get ahold of some larger injectors and accompanying tuning for them, that may be the way to go. I remember LET mentioning many months back that they and TVT would be offering larger injectors. I guess I'll keep my ears open.
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02 C32 AMG
Yes, this mid size pulley Brandon is developing is definitely a nice option However, if I can get ahold of some larger injectors and accompanying tuning for them, that may be the way to go. I remember LET mentioning many months back that they and TVT would be offering larger injectors. I guess I'll keep my ears open.
However, if I can get ahold of some larger injectors and accompanying tuning for them, that may be the way to go. I remember LET mentioning many months back that they and TVT would be offering larger injectors. I guess I'll keep my ears open.http://n.b5z.net/i/u/6138924/i/C32_PACKAGES.pdf
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
on the TVT website under performance packages, for the C32 one of their packages includes larger injectors. maybe they just arent listing them as being sold separately and maybe they could sell them separately to you if you ask?
http://n.b5z.net/i/u/6138924/i/C32_PACKAGES.pdf
http://n.b5z.net/i/u/6138924/i/C32_PACKAGES.pdf
I guess I'll have to ask and find out for sure.
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
I know you and Jerry were doing some pulley combo testing last week. Did he devise a fuel map to accommodate the larger injectors yet?
Last edited by Eleventeen; Oct 27, 2008 at 10:09 PM.
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C32 AMG
same issues here
Unless you have upgraded injectors, and the proper tuning to utilize them, I would not drive your car at full boost. The simply fact is, your car is running dangerously lean. The car will make a TON of torque all the way to 4800rpm, then things get ugly. When LET did the tune for the dual pulley, they did not have any belt wrap setup. Because of the extreme amount of belt slip encountered, there doesnt initially appear to be any problems on the dyno. But once you add belt wrap into the equation, the tune can no longer compensate, and your injectors go static. Check out the dyno below. It has a tune + water/meth injection, and its not safe. We let off as soon as AF went through the roof.
On a different note, here is a dyno below with a mid size SC Pulley that I created. The dyno is a 178 + mid size. This is what I was working on for the 178 crowd. A sensible upgrade. The dyno below has no tuning. I put the overlay up from the stock 178 dyno. You can see it creates great additional power. +30rwtq peak +36rwtq curve - +15rwhp peak +30rwhp curve OVER the 178 on its own!
Best Regards,
Brandon
On a different note, here is a dyno below with a mid size SC Pulley that I created. The dyno is a 178 + mid size. This is what I was working on for the 178 crowd. A sensible upgrade. The dyno below has no tuning. I put the overlay up from the stock 178 dyno. You can see it creates great additional power. +30rwtq peak +36rwtq curve - +15rwhp peak +30rwhp curve OVER the 178 on its own!
Best Regards,
Brandon
I've removed the C3P SC pulley for the time being and am waiting for the mid size C3P SC pulley.
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LET C32 2002
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SRT-6
Well, it's really about the ratio, isn't it? Current C3P S/C pulley with a special 170mm crank pulley may yield the exact same results as a 178mm crank pulley with a mid-sized C3P S/C pulley
EDIT: If you haven't already, read this chart (post #4):
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...highlight=Code
EDIT: If you haven't already, read this chart (post #4):
http://www.crossfireforum.org/forum/...highlight=Code
I've been running the LET 185 pulley for about 10K miles so far with no issues what so ever. (Never a CEL) I installed the SL55 intake, 185 pulley and a colder set of Iridium plugs all at one time. I was very worried about running lean (I just had a bad injector replaced under warranty prior to install) so the next day I went in for a (91 octane) dyno tune and on my first pull (factory tune) discovered that I was running an AFR of 10.0 to 10.5 - way to rich. After some tweaking and about 25 pulls later the AFR was reading 12.5 - 12.8 all the way up to 6,200 RPM. (about 362RWHP) I have also added a larger HE and separated my cooling systems and have since dynoed on several other machines.
I ran three pulls on the same dyno Code3 uses - I pulled 362RWHP but my AFR was reading was all over the place. I even asked the operator to replace the O2 sensor on his machine.
Concerned - the next day I went to a local Vette tuner and jumped on his DynoJet machine and ripped off a 350RWHP pull and my AFR was a solid 13.5 and this was with the O2 sensor clipped on at the very tip of the exhaust pipe - not inserted deep into the pipe. If you guys want - I can provide the part number to the injectors I'm using - but I also suspect that you may also have fuel pump (pressure) issues as the SRT6 fuel pump is external to the gas tank.
Here are some dyno graphs to view
Last edited by BrianBrave; Oct 31, 2008 at 07:03 PM.
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SRT-6
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
Unless you have upgraded injectors, and the proper tuning to utilize them, I would not drive your car at full boost. The simply fact is, your car is running dangerously lean. The car will make a TON of torque all the way to 4800rpm, then things get ugly. When LET did the tune for the dual pulley, they did not have any belt wrap setup. Because of the extreme amount of belt slip encountered, there doesnt initially appear to be any problems on the dyno. But once you add belt wrap into the equation, the tune can no longer compensate, and your injectors go static. Check out the dyno below. It has a tune + water/meth injection, and its not safe. We let off as soon as AF went through the roof.
http://www.maperformance.com/gm-3-bar-map-sensor.html
Last edited by Eleventeen; Nov 2, 2008 at 09:54 PM.
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Okay Brandon, I know you and Jerry were playing around with stacked pulley set-ups trying to get it to work, so I'm sure you're kicking ideas around. If we simply upgrade the injectors we will have enough fuel potential, but the ECU is still going to start bitxhing when the MAP sensor maxes out at 22 psi and might not know what to do. I think in addition to larger injectors, we need to run a 3 bar MAP sensor. It still works on a 0-5V scale with 3 wire hook-up, so Jerry should be able to recalibrate the ECU to work with it. Instead of the MAP hitting 5V (max) at 22 psi, it won't hit 5V until about 29 psi.
http://www.maperformance.com/gm-3-bar-map-sensor.html
http://www.maperformance.com/gm-3-bar-map-sensor.html
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From: South Jersey
2002 C32 AMG
I'm hoping the top-end can be made to work that well, too. We're still in the R&D stage of this mod. I'm sure that eventually (if proven feasible) it will just be a matter of buying the parts and having the ECU tuned. Upgrading to a 3 bar MAP is a very common (and necessary) upgrade for many high boost cars, and works fine once the ECU is retuned. I think that and larger injectors (if necessary) will tell us if this combo makes efficient high RPM power. If not, it's probably going to be due to compressor efficiency.
