Hi. I am looking to get a better stereo in my '01 E-430. But I'm starting to wonder if replacing the stock bose speakers in the car is worth it. I had been listening to my Creative Nomad mp3 player, running it through a cheap cassette adaptor and started realizing just how unsatisfactory the sound quality was. I figured it was the Bose speakers. But after ditching the cassette adaptor and listing to the CD changer in the last couple days, I starting to think these speakers are just fine. In fact, the sound quality sounds pretty damn good with the CD changer. Seems it would really do me some good by simply replacing the stock head unit with an Alpine or Pioneer.

What do you guys think? I've heard Bose is crappy

Do you feel it's worth spending over a grand replacing my stock speakers? The bummer about it is I'd have to replace the amp as well, due to the complicated speaker/amp connection. That would definitely increase the cost and I don't know if i can justify spending that much cash on speaker replacement and an amp. How much of an improvement would I hear if I keep the speakers and simply put in a nice Alpine HU?

 

I've never been happy about trying to piggyback anything other than the CD Changer on my CLK. Cassette inputs and FM modulators seem to always be poor solutions. I think we have similar set ups, despite yours being a E-Class. Both are the Alpine/Becker cassette unit + Bose amp/speakers and the DB2 interface (non-MOST). Until about a week ago I was still under the impression that changing the radio wasn't really feasible due to the fiber optics. But since reading some of the posts here, it seems to be a pretty doable project.

I plan to replace my head unit only, but keep the factory amp/speakers. I just received my order from Crutchfield, which I plan to install this weekend or next (depending on weather). I ordered an Alpine CDA-9885, plus the iPod and XM accessories. I also ordered the Scosche interface for the factory amp to step down the Alpine's outputs. Since you use a different MP3 player, you can opt for an aux interface rather than the iPod and/or XM adapter.

In order to get what I think are the right harness adapters, I told Crutchfield I had a 1999 VW Golf (new body style). This resulted in the Metra harness which appears to be wired exactly right, except the constant and switched 12v lines are reversed (there is a note on the adapter harness instructions saying this is possible for some applications). It also resulted in my receiving a European antenna adapter which is powered (based on another post I found, this appears to be the right adapter) and a set of radio keys to remove the factory radio.

I will post back when I am done...

 

I did the install in my CLK and I am very happy with the new head unit. While I would have preferred the simple and clean looks of one of the older (discontinued) Blaupunkt units as they'd fit the interior design a bit better, I like the feature set of the Alpine with XM and iPod interfaces. The Blaupunkt would also have the speed sensitive volume control ability.

The boominess of the original headunit is gone (it was almost like a loudness contour on steroids), and I am pretty happy with the new setup running the stock amp & speakers. The installation was straightforward - I wired the VW harness and the Scosche adapter to the Alpine harness the night before (took about 20 minutes), then basically it was plug and play.


After checking and rechecking the pinout schematics I found here, the only wiring harness adjustment that was necessary was switching the +12v constant and +12v ignition wires (i.e., connect the yellow wire on the new radio to the red on the VW plug and vice versa). The VW plug comes with a bolded note on the instruction sheet that this is necessary in some situations. The speaker leads were even all of the same colors on both the Alpine harness and the VW harness, so running 8 wires through the Scosche adapter was a piece of cake too (green to green, green/black to green/black, gray to gray, etc.).

The most time consuming part which took almost 2 hours was running the iPod interface from the center console to the back of the dash and the XM cables (including removing my old XM unit that used an FM modulator).

 

High Technology, your post is EXTREMELY helpful! Thanks for letting me know about this.

So just to clarify, what your saying is, because you bought this VW wire harness, you are now using an aftermarket head unit(Alpine) with your stock bose amp and speakers? And as a result the over exaggerrated "boomyness" is gone? What are the chances I can do the same with my '01 E-430? It uses a D2B radio.

Another thing I want to mention....


Every forum I've gone to has blasted me for even suggesting I keep the Bose speakers. They're saying it would be a total CRIME to install a new stereo without changing the speakers. Comments like "Bose = Blows" and ""No highs, no lows, just Bose" have been posted almost endlessly at caraudioforum.com, carstereo.com, etc.

How would those of you, who ARE happy with your stock speakers respond to these bose bashers? I'm not taking their side, but I must admit their comments is starting to get to me. I can't tell if these speakers sound good or bad sometimes. On some songs they sound exceptional, and on others I get too much bass and a lack of vocal detail. What are your thoughts?

 

Absolutely correct, and you should be able to do the same thing! The VW harness has the exact same wiring plugs that are needed to mate to the harness in your car. There are actually 3 individual plugs in the back of your radio, two of which plug into the VW harness. The third plug on the top is for the CD changer, which you don't need once you swap the head unit. As an aside, make sure you eject your CD cartrige before disconnecting the factory radio since that is what powers the CD changer (including the eject feature)! Obviously, you will lose the ability to use the factory CD changer, since that only interfaces to the stock radio.

As I said, the only difference in the wiring is to switch the +12v constant and +12v ignition lines. So when you wire the new radio, you will connect the radio's +12v constant wire (typically yellow) to the red wire on the VW adapter. Similarly, you will connect the radio's +12v ignition wire (typically red) to the yellow wire on the VW adapter. You just criss-cross them. Otherwise, the wiring diagram included with the adapter is 100% accurate. Since you have an '01, all of the wiring should already be in the the harness behind the radio, waiting for you to plug into via the VW adapter -- later years may be missing some of the wires due to the CANBUS protocol (the +12v ignition wire is reportedly not on those cars and has to be tapped from the cigarette lighter). But pre-2002 cars like ours are easy. Don't forget the line level converter (the Scosche factory amp adapter) which for $20 will drop the high level speaker outputs down enough to drive the Bose amp without overpowering it.

If you buy a head unit from Crutchfield, you can tell them you have a 1999 VW Golf, new body style, and they will provide the wiring harnes, antenna adapter and a set of radio keys to remove the factory radio for free. They also have a 30 day money back policy, so if for some reason you can't get everything working you can get a full refund. They also provide free shipping to boot, and there are some coupons to be had out on the net that might knock another $20 or so off. The basic installation of a headunit should take you 1-2 hours, including about 20 minutes to prewire the VW adapter to the new headunit's harness (with the Scosche adapter in the middle for the speakers) before you even touch the factory headunit. If you add other options, such as a new CD changer, XM or iPod cabling/controllers, budget another hour for each to run the wiring behind the panels, under the carpet, etc.

Despite being happy to be rid of the deep boominess of the stock unit, I do keep the LOUDNESS contour set as on from the Alpine. Road noise just washes out the low frequencies (this is common in automobile setups, which is why factory systems are set to be very boomy and people put these huge subwoofers in cars). I have never been a fan of tone controls or the loudness settings on stereos in the past, but here they really do their job! Many years of Pavlovian conditioning with the factory boominess has me thinking the bass is a little weak, but then again, I can hear a reasonable amount of bass where it actually belongs. Don't get me wrong, this doesn't sound like a 12-inch sub setup, but it has breathed new life into the factory speaker system. I may even still boost the bass a bit more via the tone controls -- I have them totally flat for now.


Regarding Bose, and their reputation, I think they are good enough for general listening. Taking it a step further, they are actually pretty good for in-car setups, since the amp/speakers are customized to the vehicle acoustics. Yes, you can get better sound with another $2,000 worth of amps, subs & speakers, but I don't think it is really worth the investment unless you must have a 5-star system in your car. You will also lose the equalization of the factory amp, so you you may have more highs and more lows, but it still may not be the best sounding system to justify the dollars due to the car's own acoustics.

I've heard all of the complaints about Bose for years. I own a set of the acoustimass (cube) modules for low-level background music in my dining room and I still enjoy listening to them as background music during a special dinner. These "no highs, no lows" complaints are somewhat focused on these cube setups, since the sub is a small driver with a very high crossover (like 250hz) and the cubes are single cone speakers without separate tweeters. Hence the "no highs, no lows". Bose is known for using psychoacoustic models to maximize the perceived quality of the sound. The fact is that they sound pretty good to the casual listener.

Before you dismiss me as tone-deaf, I should also disclose that I am a closet audiophile. I told you above what I use for background music in my dining room, but in my family room (a/k/a MY playroom), I have a B&W Nautilus 803 speaker system with matching surrounds and a Velodyne HGS series subwoofer. I carefully selected B&Ws after listening to many other high end systems over the course of a few weeks. Would I be silly enough to compare the $300 Bose setup to the $12,000+ B&W system playing DVD-Audio or SACDs -- absolutely not!!! There is simply no comparison between the frequency response and soundstage of the two systems.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply HT it's appreciated. That is encouraging news. I will discuss my options with a few installers to see which direction I wanna go in.

 

isamu, I've compiled a ton of info about replacing your W210 headunit while keeping the Bose amp and speakers. Don't listen to the Bose haters; they'd rather spend $1k+ to have an installer replace everything.

You can replace your headunit with an Alpine fairly easily, even if you have no car audio skill (I didn't). The result honestly sounds a little quiet, and at road speeds, you loose some bass. I think adding a Peripheral Electroincs SVEN4 may help that, and I've bought one, but just haven't installed it yet. I will post the results of the test.

Check out this post on the wiring: https://mbworld.org/forums/audio-electronics/151715-replacing-headunit-2002-e320-more.html
Check out this post for my final install:
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/audi...benz-pics.html

If you have any questions about the W210 headunit swap, please let me know. I'd be glad to share my research and testing so you don't have to do it. Good luck; don't be disuaded by the haters who haven't tried it for themselves and don't be fooled by car audio installers trying to sell you tons of stuff.

 

Thanks for the heads up bro. Good job on the work you did putting in the aftermarket HU.

 

The PAC converter is handles the same functionality as the Scosche line level converter that I used. It enables the speaker outputs to get reduced to the appropriate level for the Bose amp. It has small sensitivity dials that get set upon installation that help you set the levels correctly. I set mine up so the midddle of the volume range on the Alpine HU is where I would be listening when driving (i.e., just a little bit loud when not moving). As a test, I also made sure that I couldn't push the BOSE amp to distortion level, since pushing it to clipping could be a very bad thing. I agree with FireFox31 -- this is a very important element of the install (and only costs ~$20).

As an aside, of the links that was posted by FireFox31 leads to an embedded link to post about the differential outputs, which I don't think the CLK/E class used (the post references the SLK, and says that the SLK has only a two-channel output from the radio). As such, I wouldn't worry about that part -- my CLK definitely had all 4 channels of output from the stock radio, and the Alpine drives it very well.

 

Buy Other Sound Equipment

 

I am always shocked that people send speaker level outs to the Bose. Doesn't every new headunit have four RCA line level outs on the back? Oh well.

Thanks for the tip about the SLK vs E differential outputs. I never considered that they could be different. Only more testing will reveal (hm, or hooking up a voltmeter to the Audio 30 outputs, playing a test tone at max... may show 4V?? clearly, I know nothing about car audio; just a hack).

 

Pardon me for my dumbassedness, but I have that setup. Speaker level. What difference does it make to wire it up with the RCA outputs? So do I need to run it with the RCA and with the Scoshe adapter too? Also what difference does it make to do it that way as well. I noticed I can't turn up my radio too high cuz it distorts. I have a Kenwood Excelon kdc-590 and I can only get to volume 25 before distortion. And it goes all the way to 33 I think. Thoughts? I need help with this. I also noticed my stereo gets really hot too.

 

You will end up spending $2k and it may sound better.
But why do anything? Keep your cash and burn a few more CDs
Any change will have a negative impact on resale of the car no matter what you spend on it.
IMHO the Bose haters are wannabe audiophiles.

 

....From experience, Alot of the Bose systems out there that sound like crap, isn't the speakers by any means, but the decks themselves are junk. My advice is to purchase a Scosche Integration Adapter for the Bose systems, and install an aftermarket radio w/ changer control, keep the speakers, they are plenty for your application. Good Luck

 

The speaker level output of the head unit is overpowering the Bose Amp, which is expecting a pre-amp input, rather than a speaker level input. Based on different postings spread around this forum, the Bose Amp might need a higher voltage signal han a normal pre-amp output from an aftermarket radio (higher voltage signals are less likely to pick up noise when running from front to back of the car). So the easiest solution to this is to downconvert the speaker level outputs back to line level, and use the trim pots on the converter to ensure that the level is set right (low enough not to cause distortion and high enough to get adequate and reasonable volume level ).

A good starting point is to set the trim pots to zero and the head unit volume in the middle, then slowly turn the trim pots to roughly your normal listening level (or slightly louder to compensate for road noise when you will be driving). Then test the volume range on the head unit to ensure no audible distortion at the high end and that it isn't ear-shattering loud. If it is too loud (i.e., something that could cause hearing loss) or distorts, lower the trim pots a bit to give you a good range of volume levels and/or eliminate the distortion.

 

Thanks for the suggestions guys. At this point I haven't done anything to the car since I started this post. Money's been tight lately but I hope to start taking action in a couple weeks.

Here's what I am seriously thinking about doing....

Keep the speakers and keep the HU. I am thinking of getting an AUX Input converter like the *Soundgate Almbaux* from LogJam or the Dension Gateway. Then what I'll do is put a carPC like *This one* from XenarcDirect.com and connect it via a high quality linout cable from my E-MU1616M Soundcard running F00bar2000 ASIO Out.

What do you guys think of this idea? The CarPC along with the LCD Touchscreen monitor would cost around $1400 and Almbaux is under $300. Think it would sound good?


CobaltKicker, what is a Scosche Integration Adapter? Link please?

 

So, for a 2002 CLK 55 are these the parts that are needed:

I'm still confused as to which wiring harness to use. Can someone tell me which one? Does the Factory Bose Amp have to be bypassed (meaning harness #2 below)? I'm looking for the least amount of work/re-wiring as possible. Also which two wires on the harness needs to be modified and modified as in ???

Help.

"Amp Integration plug - Mercedes C230 C240 C320*Fits models w/Factory amp. Does Not work if you are planing to remove the factory amp and not use it."


"If you are installing an aftermarket radio in your car you need this harness."


Mercedes C230 C240 C320 Radio Mounting Install Dash Kit (no clk listed, cut out middle plastic piece):


Import to Domestic Antenna Adapter:

 

Yes please.

 

OH paleeze... replacing the speakers isn't going to affect the resale are you nuts? you think when it hits a dealership they are going to say it has an aftermarket radio deduct $$$ it goes by wholesale, my bro does it all day... wholesale, and only wholesale... it could be in mint condition you are still getting wholesale

and Bose is not anywhere close to what a true audio system should sound like.. it is marketing and nothing but marketing.. get out a bit more and hit up some of your specialty shops in the area and listen to a real system... and no best buy doesn't count

why spend money on burnt cd's when it is still going to sound like **** coming from some cheap **** speakers? you'd be back at square one again