Rough RUnning C280 Wiring Harness
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1995 C280
Rough RUnning C280 Wiring Harness
My 1995 C280 will occasionally run rough. The dealer says the misfire is caused by a short in the wiring harness and will cost about 1,500 to replace. Can I get it done cheaper? Are there any recalls or warranties to cover such repairs? Thanks foryour help.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
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From: Southern California
93 300E
You have the dreaded engine wiring harness that is bad on all M104 engines from 1993-1995.
The wiring harness itself is about $550, and it takes 3.5 to 4 hours to replace.
If you go to a Mercedes Benz independent mechanic, and he charges the regular hourly labor rate of $60 / hr., you should be out the door at about $800.
So, yes, you're being overcharged at the dealer.
This is a very, very common repair on these cars, and every Mercedes independent should have done many before.
The wiring harness itself is about $550, and it takes 3.5 to 4 hours to replace.
If you go to a Mercedes Benz independent mechanic, and he charges the regular hourly labor rate of $60 / hr., you should be out the door at about $800.
So, yes, you're being overcharged at the dealer.
This is a very, very common repair on these cars, and every Mercedes independent should have done many before.
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From: Salem, Massachusetts
96 Mercedes C36
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Caracas, Venezuela
2006 Renault Megane II
I was searching for that since my uncle has a 96 with the same problem, it starts fine but from time to time it will run rought and idle at 400-500 rpms.... let me tell him about the wiring. ECU wiring or what?
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
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From: Southern California
93 300E
I would advice him to have the following inspected as things that can affect idle:
1. Mass airflow sensor
2. throttle actuator
3. egr valve function / check to see if the hot inlet pipe to the intake manifold is plugged with carbon from egr vapors.
4. plugs / wires
The engine wiring harnesses were bad from 93-95 only. 1996's were fine.
1. Mass airflow sensor
2. throttle actuator
3. egr valve function / check to see if the hot inlet pipe to the intake manifold is plugged with carbon from egr vapors.
4. plugs / wires
The engine wiring harnesses were bad from 93-95 only. 1996's were fine.
Almost a Member!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 58
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From: Caracas, Venezuela
2006 Renault Megane II
ok, thanks. He already done plugs, wires and throttle body cleaning. CO level is ok so it's not running rich which means that the systems are working as intended most of time.
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Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
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From: Southern California
93 300E
I would still have the hot inlet pipe inspected to see if it's clogged.
All M104 engines (2.8 liter, 3.2 liter) have a tendency to build up carbon and clog up the inlet pipe to the intake manifold. If yours hasn't been cleaned up, I'm sure it's somewhat constricted.
The fix is to 'ream' it out with a cable, like a speedometer cable, attached to a drill motor.
This is so common that many MB mechanics do this every 30,000 miles.
Here is a link with an explanation and pictures. Refer to pictures 8, 9, and 10.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_stevebfl_1.htm
All M104 engines (2.8 liter, 3.2 liter) have a tendency to build up carbon and clog up the inlet pipe to the intake manifold. If yours hasn't been cleaned up, I'm sure it's somewhat constricted.
The fix is to 'ream' it out with a cable, like a speedometer cable, attached to a drill motor.
This is so common that many MB mechanics do this every 30,000 miles.
Here is a link with an explanation and pictures. Refer to pictures 8, 9, and 10.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/diy_stevebfl_1.htm
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Newbie
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: bc canada
1995 c280
I also have a c280 which occasionally run rough. I changed all the spark plug and #1,6 coil, no change. My timing light indicates #6 cylinder is not firing all the time didnot check other ones. I read the message about wiring harness so I meggered(1000vdc) the three leads that supply 400 volts dc to the three coils. These leads are not shorted to ground or anything else. Does anyone know which wires are bad. I also had a cold solder joint on the relay circuit board for the rear window defrost and turn indicators which I repaired. Any infomation would be appriciated.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
If you have a 93-95 C280 (not C220, C230), then your engine wiring harness is surely bad.
The wiring harness goes all over your whole engine. When you see the part, it looks like a large octopus.
The problem is the insulation they experimented with in 93-95 ends up degrading in the car due to heat, and the insulation turns to powder, flakes off all over. Looks like it's 2 million years old.
If you're not getting spark to one cylinder, it's certainly either the coil wire or the spark plug wire for that cylinder or the next one.
On these M104 engines, you have 3 coil wires and 3 spark plug wires. Each coil wire is responsible for 2 cylinders. What actually goes bad is not the wires itself, but the end of the wire or "boot". The resistance is in the boot, not the wire, just like Porsches and old VW's. The wires on these cars almost never go bad, just the boot. They are very sensitive to movement, especially if you pulled it out. Everytime you pull a wire, it's a good idea to put on new boots. They sell them at the dealer, and they're ridiculously cheap, less that a dollar each if I recall.
If you do decide to change the wires (why? I don't know), only buy them at the dealer. They're around $200 which is a lot, but they are solid copper and worth it. Aftermarket wires are a silicon / copper blend and not nearly as good.
Also, make sure you are running original Bosch copper core plugs. These engines are not made to run on Platinum plugs. If a technician sees them in your car, he will not diagnose it unless you have proper plugs installed. Go with the original, cheap copper core plugs, and change them every 30,000 miles.
The wiring harness goes all over your whole engine. When you see the part, it looks like a large octopus.
The problem is the insulation they experimented with in 93-95 ends up degrading in the car due to heat, and the insulation turns to powder, flakes off all over. Looks like it's 2 million years old.
If you're not getting spark to one cylinder, it's certainly either the coil wire or the spark plug wire for that cylinder or the next one.
On these M104 engines, you have 3 coil wires and 3 spark plug wires. Each coil wire is responsible for 2 cylinders. What actually goes bad is not the wires itself, but the end of the wire or "boot". The resistance is in the boot, not the wire, just like Porsches and old VW's. The wires on these cars almost never go bad, just the boot. They are very sensitive to movement, especially if you pulled it out. Everytime you pull a wire, it's a good idea to put on new boots. They sell them at the dealer, and they're ridiculously cheap, less that a dollar each if I recall.
If you do decide to change the wires (why? I don't know), only buy them at the dealer. They're around $200 which is a lot, but they are solid copper and worth it. Aftermarket wires are a silicon / copper blend and not nearly as good.
Also, make sure you are running original Bosch copper core plugs. These engines are not made to run on Platinum plugs. If a technician sees them in your car, he will not diagnose it unless you have proper plugs installed. Go with the original, cheap copper core plugs, and change them every 30,000 miles.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3
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From: bc canada
1995 c280
My car is a 1995 c280 manufactured August 1995 it has the 4 seperate fan speed buttons. I bought the car a year ago. One day this year it started running very rough almost dieing at stop lights. The check engine light came on. I limped home and turned the car off and back on the rough running disapeared. I took it to the dealer who said the engine code was for cylinder # 6 and was going to change coil the but had to order it in. When the coil came in I replaced it. It didnot fix the problem so I changed the spark plugs with bosch copper ones. Didnot solve problems so checked continunity of wires to the three coil from the conecter on the center module(good). I then used a 1000 volt meggger to check for shorts all three were greater than 1 gig ohm (very good) The six spark plug leads also are good. The reason I only checked one cylinder with my timing light is because you have to put it in line with the spark plug very hard to do. I think more than 1 cylinder is missing.
Back to the wiring harness. How do you tell if it has been replaced. My harness is wrapped with cloth similar to friction tape but not real sticky. I seen no signs of cracking where the wires are not wrapped. Also does anybody know if the repair cd shows all the conectors and wires in the harness.
I appreciate the feedback so far thank you.
Back to the wiring harness. How do you tell if it has been replaced. My harness is wrapped with cloth similar to friction tape but not real sticky. I seen no signs of cracking where the wires are not wrapped. Also does anybody know if the repair cd shows all the conectors and wires in the harness.
I appreciate the feedback so far thank you.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
Well, in my case, I carefully with a utility knife slit open a portion of the black fabric tape to inspect the wires. The insulation on the wires looked brand new, you could see the different colors of the wires, so I knew I was in good shape. I also had a vehicle master inquiry for my car ran at the local dealer, and it showed that indeed my harness was replaced at 107,000 miles.
I've since seen several harnesses that were removed from different Mercedes at my local independent mechanic, and it is very obvious. In some cases, the insulation had turned to powder, was whitish-gray in color, and just had disintegrated. In other cases, it was sort of flaking off, and you could see the bare copper wires exposed all over.
Symptoms of a bad wiring harness sound like what you're experiencing. From postings on these Mercedes Forums, you may experience any of the following: random and arbitrary engine fault codes, check engine light that comes on for no reason, rough running, poor idleing, missing, back-firing through the intake manifold, various shorts, frying of the EZL, EHA, throttle actuator, etc. I've read posts from owners who were beside themselves with thousands of dollars of repairs needed because a bad wiring harness took out other components. The throttle actuator costs a little over $1,000, for example.
I'm not trying to scare you, but I wouldn't let it go. It might be worthwhile to get it inspected by a dealer or local independent MB mechanic.
I've since seen several harnesses that were removed from different Mercedes at my local independent mechanic, and it is very obvious. In some cases, the insulation had turned to powder, was whitish-gray in color, and just had disintegrated. In other cases, it was sort of flaking off, and you could see the bare copper wires exposed all over.
Symptoms of a bad wiring harness sound like what you're experiencing. From postings on these Mercedes Forums, you may experience any of the following: random and arbitrary engine fault codes, check engine light that comes on for no reason, rough running, poor idleing, missing, back-firing through the intake manifold, various shorts, frying of the EZL, EHA, throttle actuator, etc. I've read posts from owners who were beside themselves with thousands of dollars of repairs needed because a bad wiring harness took out other components. The throttle actuator costs a little over $1,000, for example.
I'm not trying to scare you, but I wouldn't let it go. It might be worthwhile to get it inspected by a dealer or local independent MB mechanic.
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 3
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From: bc canada
1995 c280
Well this is not looking good. We were very happy when we got the car last year it only had 55,000 miles. I don't like repairing or replacing wiring harness at work but I will be inspecting mine very caefully for deteriating insulation. Does the shop cd have a detailed wiring diagram. Thank you
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
The shop cd may have a detailed wiring diagram, but I don't have one. I've seen them for sale on e-bay, for what it's worth.
Go to a dealer and ask to get a Vehicle Master Inquiry run on your car. This will tell you what repairs have been performed on your under warranty or recall. These are the only records that the dealer will give you. You will also probably want or expect to get any records of regular service or maintenance, but they will tell you that these kinds of records stay with the owner, not the vehicle.
If the harness was replaced by the dealer, it will show up.
As a guideline, the harness will run you about $550, and an honest independent Mercedes mechanic can install one in about 3 hours. So you're looking at about approx. $800 installed if you have to do it.
I've seen pictures posted on other sites of what a bad harness looks like, where you can check to see if your harness is bad or not, and also stories of what happened to people's cars when it did go out.
I'll search for these and post them for you.
Go to a dealer and ask to get a Vehicle Master Inquiry run on your car. This will tell you what repairs have been performed on your under warranty or recall. These are the only records that the dealer will give you. You will also probably want or expect to get any records of regular service or maintenance, but they will tell you that these kinds of records stay with the owner, not the vehicle.
If the harness was replaced by the dealer, it will show up.
As a guideline, the harness will run you about $550, and an honest independent Mercedes mechanic can install one in about 3 hours. So you're looking at about approx. $800 installed if you have to do it.
I've seen pictures posted on other sites of what a bad harness looks like, where you can check to see if your harness is bad or not, and also stories of what happened to people's cars when it did go out.
I'll search for these and post them for you.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
I'll continue to add threads to this post as I find them. Check back for future edits:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
Last edited by suginami; Jul 14, 2002 at 01:06 PM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
Here's one that talks about a problem like yours and mentions how to check the resistor ends:
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforu...wiring+harness
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 1
From: Southern California
93 300E
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2
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1995 c280
my 95 c280 with 233k miles bought it new is misfiring bad to the point of it will die on me i have replaced the plugs plug wires and engine wirring harness coasting about $1200 bucks plus labor and still hasnt fixed my problems i have ordered the coil packs all 3 but havent receved the yet. if any one know or had somewhat the same problem pleaz let me know all u can about how you fixed yours thankz 
Last edited by benzboiinky; Jun 20, 2006 at 01:13 PM. Reason: left out mile on car
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
I have similar problem an year ago. I change the spark plug, spark wires, and ignition coils. And works fine. I just took my car to a shop to replaced the leaking water pump, they told me that I need to replace the engine wiring harness. I just check the price, the cost for the wire over $1000, don't know what to do...
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 7
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From: Calhoun, Ga, USA
1995 Mercedes-Benz C280 W202
wiring harness issue..
Did it help when/if you got the harness replaced. I too am having this same frustrating problem..sometimes it feels like I'm driving a 3 cylinder. lol 
Thanks
Thanks
Newbie
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 24
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Many similar cases had been reported to NHRSA but alas MB won't recall the affected models. My own '94 C280 had this problem and I spent $1200 CAD to get it fixed (excluding labor, through a private mechanic).
Bottom line is, you have NO other alternatives unfortunately. I've been there and done that.
Bottom line is, you have NO other alternatives unfortunately. I've been there and done that.
Last edited by mbc280; Mar 23, 2007 at 12:42 AM.
Newbie
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Cheap Fix
Know it sounds a rough job but ive just had to do a head hasket job on my c36 AMG, at the same timne it was running rough whoich was down to the wiring harness breaking down (all the wire casing just falls to bits especially when you move the loom about etc). Instead of paying the £650 or whatever it was my dealer quoted me i stripped all the outer casing from the loom bought plenty of insulation tape and sat in the garage for a few hours. Just re insulate each one of them wires inside the loom, keep it tight, pay attention to where the wire junctions are for the injectors /sensors etc and re package the whole lot when done and mine is good as new again. Obviously it doesnt look quite as good as a genuine replacement but its only cost me about £3 in insulation tape and a few hours work far better in my mind than about a grand for merc to do it for me
Newbie
Joined: Mar 2007
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Got the Same Problem
Below you stated the Harness is about $550.00 where can I purchase it. I've checked online but got nothing, In fact I was checking when I came accross your helpfull hints.
Thanks Rich.
The wiring harness itself is about $550, and it takes 3.5 to 4 hours to replace.
If you go to a Mercedes Benz independent mechanic, and he charges the regular hourly labor rate of $60 / hr., you should be out the door at about $800.
So, yes, you're being overcharged at the dealer.
This is a very, very common repair on these cars, and every Mercedes independent should have done many before.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Rich.
The wiring harness itself is about $550, and it takes 3.5 to 4 hours to replace.
If you go to a Mercedes Benz independent mechanic, and he charges the regular hourly labor rate of $60 / hr., you should be out the door at about $800.
So, yes, you're being overcharged at the dealer.
This is a very, very common repair on these cars, and every Mercedes independent should have done many before.[/QUOTE]
