Benzdom

Hi, everybody. After roaming the internet for some info. I just discovered this amazing forum.

My 300d is in its last weeks, and I set my eyes on a C230, years 1996-2000. I actually have focused on a nice 2000 model with 105k miles.

The purchase price is very reasonable, and aren't those great cars?

The big question is: how's the upkeep on this car? When you search the web you get anything from "very reliable" to " Horror! My sunroof motor just went dead with the roof open. Cost 2200$ to fix!".

So, the following questions concern things I have heard. I want to check before I get into a car: can I afford its upkeep?

Questions:

1. Electrical problems: are they also with this generation of C-class?

2. Is there a hungry computer that wants a service every 8000 miles, like tire rotations, etc? Or is this beast in the next generation?

3. From my old diesel I was used to sometimes driving for months without going for a repair. When you read some reviews, it looks like you're in the shop every two months and spend 4000 dollars a year for service and repair.

4. I also read that 80 000 miles is somewhat a critical mileage. Lots of things break here, and then things will run smooth for a long time.

5. Vacuum hoses crack with age now (cars are eight to thirteen years old) and cause lots of electrical defects.

6. Which year would be the best to buy? Or does it matter at all?).


I hope these questions do not offend anybody. I'd just like to know if there's truth to it before I make my decision.

Thanks for replying.

tex07

get a 98 to 2000. the other years aren't supercharged. very reliable personally, but i've put $100 per month toward maintenance (including brakes pads/rotors, tires, etc). again, a very reliable car if you find one with a complete service history. if you don't, like any car, you'll be paying a LOT to fix it.

about tire rotations - this has nothing to do with the car...it has everything to do with tire life. a lot tire shops will rotate your tires free if you purchased your tires there. you should do this regularly (every 5k miles or so).

service is every 10k miles. considering that service is every 3k on most cars, that's not a bad deal. there are a lot of service items that aren't part of the regular A/B service, so talk to your service advisor at your local dealer.

i havent heard of vacuum hoses being a problem with this car, but i could be wrong. the mass airflow sensor is known to go bad, fuel gauge sensor, AC compressor, cruise control, and a lot of people say that the supercharger lasts about 100-125k miles unless you service it on your own. if you are serious about the c230, check for cracks in the supercharger casing. actually, get a PPI on the car (pre purchase inspection) at your local dealer.

a lot of people call this the most reliable mbz ever (the 98-2000 c230k), but some don't. if you find a well-maintained example, your chances are much better in terms of reliability. do remember though that this is still a c-class and not just some old car...so you'll need to have the cash to maintain and repair, else you'll run into larger problems down the road.

hope this helps

xvvvz

Excellent post by tex07. It all depends on the example you buy and how it has been maintained as to how reliable the example will be for you. These cars do require maintenance. Buy a Honda if you are not into maintenance.

I would buy a model year 2000 because it will be the youngest and will have had the most refinements over time.

These supercharged engines are an acquired taste. They are meant to be a bit more sporty but they are not as refined and smooth as the sixes, especially during the morning start up cycle!

tex07

the late model c230k feels "rough" during the start up cycle because the supercharger is always on during the first 2 minutes. at all other times (when engine is warm), it kicks in above 2000 rpm. that's not a bad thing, and i do not recommend getting an aftermarket ecu update to leave it on at all rpms.

it's definitely not as smooth as the v6, but it all comes down to taste.

as for a 2000, you'll get the tiptronic transmission (allows you to upshift and also to select the highest gear). a lot of ppl think it is useless, but i use it when the engine is cold to keep my rpms low, and the occasional downshift is much easier with tiptronic. if you are in the twisties, it makes it very easy to have it hold a gear through the turn. other than that, though, dont expect to rely on it for shifting...it wasn't designed for that (pretty clunky if you try to constantly control your shifts as you drive...upshifts take 1-2 secs, but if you own the car for a longer period, you get a sense of how long it will take to complete an upshift).

xvvvz

The reason I like the 2000 transmission better is not the triptronic but the revised internal bearing assembly that should be more reliable over the long run

tex07

true that!

Benzdom

Thank you for your valuable input.

I see, regarding transmission, that I should get a 2000 model. I found two C230's, 2000-models, both with complete service records. So, regarding what you said, replacing the kompressor will be just around the corner. I will put this into the financial planning. (Would you know how much that is?).

I am absolutely willing to regularly maintain the car. A service every 10k - I consider this low maintenance. My 300D needed it every 2500 miles, and, because of its age, the weirdest things broke (I once got stranded because I couldn't turn the key in the ignition any more. Couldn't pull out the ignition lock, as the steering wheel lock was engaged).

I want to get a car that I really like, and my next purchase would be a book that tells me how to fix certain things. I always want to know about the car I drive.

The reason I started this thread is, that I have no idea about the higher tech Mercedes cars. My 300D is a very simple car with almost no electronic. So I need to get a feel what it is like not only to drive that car (which I look forward to), but how to maintain it. You said you spend 100$ per month to maintain your car. That's what I put into my aging 300D. Just wanted to make sure it's not 400$ a month.

I have absolutely planned for a PPI. You recommend doing it at a dealer? Looks like you need special equipment to really get a good idea about the technical state of the car. I'll go to W.I. Simonson then.

PS:

Would you say buying a 230C at 105k miles is a good thing? (both 230K's I'm going to look at have exactly this mileage).

Benzdom

Thanks for your input.

I'm absolutely willing to do maintenance. This is why I want to get a car I really like. I will get a service manual, as I always want to know what's going on with a car I drive (more than once that has saved me).

With reliability I did not mean "no maintenance" (the maintenance cycles on this car are so far apart it's almost low maintenance. On my current car, I check all the fluids every week.)

The key thing I wanted to know is that I don't have a 2500$ repair every six months. This I could not afford.

tex07

oil change is difficult on your own since you aren't supposed to drain the oil...you have to use a special vacuum i believe (though there is a drain). careful of the supercharger as i said before, and try to find one with a regularly serviced transmission. call the dealer and figure out the service intervals for everything with prices...that will give you the best idea.

i cant speak for anyone else, but I spend a little less than $1000 per year in maintenance.

try to find one with full leather (you WILL notice a difference) and the sport package (you will notice a difference here, too).

Benzdom

Thanks.

This sounds like I can with good reasoning go and buy a 230C.

I stopped doing oil changes even on my 300D a while ago.

Leather is on my must-have list.

What's the sports package?

PS: I saw there are a few C280s around with low mileage. Am I correct when I think the V6 may run smoother and have 10 more horse powers, but will use more gas - and the C230 has more pep?

tex07

c230k is supposedly more reliable (even though it is supercharged). like i said before, be sure to get the car inspected. either way, the c230k gets better gas mileage and has more torque.

sport package swaps out the chrome door handles for dark gray sport ones, adds carbon fiber b pillars and interior trim, white gauges, sport seats that have more side bolstering, and you get a better suspension too!

xvvvz

The big unknown is whether there are any big things ready to let go. Unfortunately, all you can do is hope you find a mechanic that really knows these cars and can do a good inspection. My car's had some big issues every once in a while even though it has very low miles. You have to realize that air-co compressors are going out due to age, ventilation system pnuematics are starting to get brittle and split, suspension bushing are collapsing due to age, etc. You may never have a problem with these. You may have a bunch of these hit at once. If you do the work yourself, you can save a lot. If you don't, you can easily spend what you paid for the car in repairs.

Regular maintenance isn't super-cheap, either. That is why you can buy these cars so cheap. Used MB's can be cheap to buy but also expensive to maintian. That is why you need to get a good one.

tex07

+1

by the way, what are you doing about servicing your supercharger?

Benzdom

I haven't seen any C230's with sports package on the market so far.

Only one that looks like it has it (they call it a Brabus package, not sure if it's the same) is this one. But it has 149k miles (for being a 2002), and that's probably not a good idea.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...eadExists=true

Also, it's a coupe (which is no longer produced). I'd like to have a trunk where I put my gear unseen and quite safe.

Benzdom

Thanks. I absolutely realize that I need to find a good one.

I guess, going to a big Mercedes Benz dealer (I'd choose W.I. Simonson here in Santa Monica, CA) for the Pre-Purchase inspections should hook me up with a good mechanic, who also has the necessary diagnostic equipment to tell me the condition of the car.

Do you think that's true, or would you have suggestions on this part.

I'm ready to pay for more than one inspection. If a car doesn't fit, I'll go find another one.

Benzdom

I saw there are services that are called "Service B", and there might be a "Service A".

Can you fill me in on this structure?

Looks like there are some big services, like the 100k service one seller mentioned.

Is it good to get a car that just passed one of these (and got smogged - big thing here in California)?

Benzdom

This bit of info almost fell through the cracks.

I just found a new mechanic, who worked 25 years at a Mercedes dealership.

He now works on his own, and uses different locations to repair cars. Not sure so far if this is good, so I'm checking.

I really need an able and trustworthy mechanic.

AcousticplayerJ

Things can always go wrong with the car. I've had issues which have cost a few hundred, to those which have cost a few thousand. Mercedes are generally very expensive to repair. However, if you are careful with your car and regular maintenance, it will not cost as much. You pay lots of money to have and keep an awesome car. But before anyone argues with me, I'm someone who always goes to the dealer for service. There are few people in my area who can maintain such a car.

Benzdom

I'm actually doing a necessary repair estimate for the first year and put it into the the purchase price.

So I figure I get a really good one for 6500$, and take another 3500$ for repairs and thus calculate the purchase cost as 10 000$.

My old diesel came back to life after an injector cleaning with automatic transmission fluid, so I can take my time choosing a car.

tex07

3500 for repairs?!

xvvvz

If you go to the stealership, you can rack up $3500 in repairs very easily.

Benzdom

It's just meant as a set-aside.

Of course I hope it won't happen.

I found a good independent mechanic in Tarzana, CA. Mr. MB. He charges less than the robberships, and is very good, so I heard.

tex07

i thought mbz service centers are actually reasonable! what's your take?