C240 vs. C230k Video Released
05-25-2005, 04:56 PM
#51
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05 C230wz 6M
Originally Posted by CynCarvin32
all this bs from a man who calculated the performance figures and the subsequent rates of acceleration form totally different tests (different testers, different locations, different conditions). for a man trying to be logical you far to many vairables. my testing is on the same road at the same time with 2 cars with roughly the same weight.
say what you wish but your testing is done on paper, is full of unknowns, and has little to no impact on the topic at hand.
maybe if I feel like risking my rights to drive in california once again, I will put my racing camera mount in the C230k and do the testing all over again with two full tanks of gas and only the driver in each car.
let me guess you want us to weigh in first in an effort to see which driver is a bigger fat @ss.
say what you wish but your testing is done on paper, is full of unknowns, and has little to no impact on the topic at hand.
maybe if I feel like risking my rights to drive in california once again, I will put my racing camera mount in the C230k and do the testing all over again with two full tanks of gas and only the driver in each car.
let me guess you want us to weigh in first in an effort to see which driver is a bigger fat @ss.
You're right, the figures I used were from different years and testers. BUT they were completely objective, were run on numerous cars, and were deon by professional drivers.
I'm not saying the extra passenger is the reason for the results I've read are in the video...but don't downplay or patronize us, please...
You're results may be legit, but they are not representative of the whole. Professional tests bear this out, not paper tests...these results have been translated using basic newtonian principles. The C240 COULD pull ahead, maybe you missed that in my post, but at best it would be by a very slight margin, rendering the supposed results in your video way off.
You have me on the verge of arguing which is faster again, and I won't let that happen...
Feel free to think what you want...it goes against every shred of independent test and math that led to cars existing in the first place. But hey, it's a free country. Without a minority there would be no majority.
Cheers.
Last edited by delbomber; 05-25-2005 at 05:20 PM.
05-25-2005, 05:14 PM
#52
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2005 C230SS 6spd Blk/Blk, 2006 C350 SS 6spd Blk/Blk
Cool video guys.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
05-25-2005, 05:19 PM
#53
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05 C230wz 6M
Originally Posted by neilsam
Cool video guys.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
05-25-2005, 05:23 PM
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2005 C230SS 6spd Blk/Blk, 2006 C350 SS 6spd Blk/Blk
Originally Posted by delbomber
You don't need to spend the money on a 350 to do that...lots of car will smoke these two
True, but i only like Mercedes.
05-25-2005, 05:29 PM
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2005 E320 Platinum Blue/Ash, Appearance Pkg, Premium Pkg
Hi all! I am the notorious driver of the C 240. It is true. My loaner C240 toasted the C230K. I had not passenger in the car, 3/4 of a tank of gas, and my actual weight is 97.5lbs. No I have no eating disorder, that is just how much my 22 year old behind weighs. That C240 has also been abused by me for over 1000mi prior to this run. I jumped the vehicle numerous times, I caused sparks to fly from underneath while speeding through dips, the headers were glowing from the stress I put the car through. The trans wasn't even shifting right.
All in all it was a great run, and I will race for pinks any OE C230WZ 6sp or auto, since I have raced my buddies 6sp also, and pulled slightly, many a time. Anyhow I just though everyone would like to know my part of this whole event. Meow.
All in all it was a great run, and I will race for pinks any OE C230WZ 6sp or auto, since I have raced my buddies 6sp also, and pulled slightly, many a time. Anyhow I just though everyone would like to know my part of this whole event. Meow.
05-25-2005, 05:30 PM
#56
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Originally Posted by neilsam
Cool video guys.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
As i read somewhere "there is no replacement for displacement". That is so true.
I wanna C350 that will smoke both 240's and 230's.
05-25-2005, 05:37 PM
#58
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1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
sorry,
going to bed. Maybe tomorrow.
YAWN !!!
going to bed. Maybe tomorrow.
YAWN !!!
05-25-2005, 05:44 PM
#59
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i find it rather interesting, talking about weight and all. we have accepted, thru some peoples bantering, that the c230 weighed roughly the same, within 50-60lbs of the c240. doesn't it seem strange to you guys, that the c230 could no pull on the c240 at all any time? given that it has 22 more hp, you would think that it would have take at least 2 of the 4 races...
05-25-2005, 06:02 PM
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
As an ex-C240 owner and long-time lurker here, I think the results seen from the video are plausible.
Yes, the C230K (1.8L supercharged I4) has higher PEAK horsepower and torque numbers compared to the C240 (2.6L V6).
C230K: 189 HP @ 5800 rpm; 192 lb-ft @ 3500-4000 rpm
C240: 168 HP @ 5700 rpm; 177 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm
What is important from in terms of acceleration is TORQUE and the shape of the torque curve. Like most supercharged engines, the C230K has a relatively flat torque curve, with abundant torque even at low engine speeds, while the C240 has a very peaky torque curve, with very little torque at low engine speeds. That's why the C230K smokes the C240 consistently from a standing start.
At rolling highway speeds, the story is very different because the engine speeds are much higher from the start. After 4000rpm, the C230K's torque DECREASES continuously till redline, where as the C240's peak torque doesn't occur until 4700 rpm. I suspect that's why people have seen C240's pulling away from C230K's when doing WOT races from rolling highway speeds.
I've always thought this would be case, given the different shape of the torque curves.
Yes, the C230K (1.8L supercharged I4) has higher PEAK horsepower and torque numbers compared to the C240 (2.6L V6).
C230K: 189 HP @ 5800 rpm; 192 lb-ft @ 3500-4000 rpm
C240: 168 HP @ 5700 rpm; 177 lb-ft @ 4700 rpm
What is important from in terms of acceleration is TORQUE and the shape of the torque curve. Like most supercharged engines, the C230K has a relatively flat torque curve, with abundant torque even at low engine speeds, while the C240 has a very peaky torque curve, with very little torque at low engine speeds. That's why the C230K smokes the C240 consistently from a standing start.
At rolling highway speeds, the story is very different because the engine speeds are much higher from the start. After 4000rpm, the C230K's torque DECREASES continuously till redline, where as the C240's peak torque doesn't occur until 4700 rpm. I suspect that's why people have seen C240's pulling away from C230K's when doing WOT races from rolling highway speeds.
I've always thought this would be case, given the different shape of the torque curves.
05-25-2005, 07:05 PM
#62
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I can't see the video, however, I've had totally different experiences in my '02 Coupe, even holding more than a candle to the a C320 in Ocean City just this weekend going light to light.
Sucks the 1.8 gets it's *** handed to it, but I am not surprised. The 1.8s I've gone up against (when stock) were a big disappointment.
CC is not here to blow smoke up anyone's ***. He and his CA crew deserve respect. They actually "drive" their cars.
Tom
Sucks the 1.8 gets it's *** handed to it, but I am not surprised. The 1.8s I've gone up against (when stock) were a big disappointment.
CC is not here to blow smoke up anyone's ***. He and his CA crew deserve respect. They actually "drive" their cars.
Tom
05-25-2005, 07:07 PM
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'05 C230SS 6MT, 1966 Triumph TR4a IRS, Shelby Cobra 427 Supercharged
Not to fuel the fire but here is a good question...
These cars both have auto trannies that learn the drivers style. If the owner of the C240 drives aggressively and floors it often and the owner of the C230 drives like a grandma would that make a difference? I dont know, I never drove an auto MB long enough to now what and how the learning tranny operates. And Im not saying it could make up a huge difference but if it takes the C230 a second slower to react, at 40 Mph that is about 60 feet, then you also have to know who had the advantage of starting the race which would also account for some loss. Again I dont know how the tranny does its thing and I didnt not watch the video.
These cars both have auto trannies that learn the drivers style. If the owner of the C240 drives aggressively and floors it often and the owner of the C230 drives like a grandma would that make a difference? I dont know, I never drove an auto MB long enough to now what and how the learning tranny operates. And Im not saying it could make up a huge difference but if it takes the C230 a second slower to react, at 40 Mph that is about 60 feet, then you also have to know who had the advantage of starting the race which would also account for some loss. Again I dont know how the tranny does its thing and I didnt not watch the video.
05-25-2005, 07:22 PM
#64
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C 230K Coupé
Well i still can't get the vid to work no matter what button i push, but that doesn't seem to really matter. I'm not too surpised that the c240 would pull ahead of the c230k. I have heard alot about the m271 with auto transmission really losing power at higher speeds. I drive a m111 6speed so i can't really say much from experience.
But on another point, you said all you did to launch the car is floor it, how about some break torque? Launching an auto well isn't just flooring it... thought i doubt it would change much in the outcome if the c240 did pull that far ahead (as every 1 says so).
Also we have to view this as an every day driver, i'd rather have more power at lower speeds then higher. 0-60 is all that pretty much matters in real world driving, so in that case the c230k would be faster. This lil debate is gonna continue for a long time, and i don't think it's really gonna matter who the "winner" is... if there really is one.
But on another point, you said all you did to launch the car is floor it, how about some break torque? Launching an auto well isn't just flooring it... thought i doubt it would change much in the outcome if the c240 did pull that far ahead (as every 1 says so).
Also we have to view this as an every day driver, i'd rather have more power at lower speeds then higher. 0-60 is all that pretty much matters in real world driving, so in that case the c230k would be faster. This lil debate is gonna continue for a long time, and i don't think it's really gonna matter who the "winner" is... if there really is one.
05-25-2005, 07:52 PM
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2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 2004.5 C230 Sport Sedan, 2005 E320 CDI, 2008 C300 4-Matic Luxury
k, guys, to get the video, go to the page, click on free download, at the bottom of the next page it takes you to, it says you have to wait for 60 secs., after your 60 secs. are up, a link will appear at the bottom of the page so you can download the video
05-25-2005, 07:58 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by nukblazi
I can't see the video, however, I've had totally different experiences in my '02 Coupe, even holding more than a candle to the a C320 in Ocean City just this weekend going light to light.
Sucks the 1.8 gets it's *** handed to it, but I am not surprised. The 1.8s I've gone up against (when stock) were a big disappointment.
CC is not here to blow smoke up anyone's ***. He and his CA crew deserve respect. They actually "drive" their cars.
Tom
Sucks the 1.8 gets it's *** handed to it, but I am not surprised. The 1.8s I've gone up against (when stock) were a big disappointment.
CC is not here to blow smoke up anyone's ***. He and his CA crew deserve respect. They actually "drive" their cars.
Tom
05-25-2005, 08:00 PM
#67
Super Member
damnit all, just stop your bickering.
It's okay.
If you beleive the 230k is faster, you are right, if you beleive the 240 is faster, you are also right.
OR is this not fare, I'll say is again this way.
If you believe the 240 is faster, you are right, if you believe the 230k is faster, you are also right.
Happy?!
well okay then.
Good Night!
Issue solved.
It's okay.
If you beleive the 230k is faster, you are right, if you beleive the 240 is faster, you are also right.
OR is this not fare, I'll say is again this way.
If you believe the 240 is faster, you are right, if you believe the 230k is faster, you are also right.
Happy?!
well okay then.
Good Night!
Issue solved.
05-25-2005, 08:44 PM
#68
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excites your girlfriend
lol wow 7 pages, I haven't read anything but the first post and watched the video but I can tell from the shifting that that C230 is AUTOMATIC!!! 
Also I bet the C230 was in 5th or 6th gear on the highway while the C240 was in 3rd or 4th.
a good attempt at trying to fool most people into believing the C240 really is faster but next time test a 6 speed C230 and use the proper gear for acceleration!!
the one part of this video that is a dead give away that something isn't right here is when they start from about 20mph, it would be a cold day in hell before that c240 could beat a c230 at that speed (20-80 mph). at 80 mph it would probably walk away slowly like it did a couple times but definatly not at 20 mph.
good try but you didn't fool everyone.
Also I bet the C230 was in 5th or 6th gear on the highway while the C240 was in 3rd or 4th.
a good attempt at trying to fool most people into believing the C240 really is faster but next time test a 6 speed C230 and use the proper gear for acceleration!!
the one part of this video that is a dead give away that something isn't right here is when they start from about 20mph, it would be a cold day in hell before that c240 could beat a c230 at that speed (20-80 mph). at 80 mph it would probably walk away slowly like it did a couple times but definatly not at 20 mph.
good try but you didn't fool everyone.
05-25-2005, 09:08 PM
#69
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1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
Originally Posted by uninterested observer #4,358
is this over yet ???
Originally Posted by uninterested observer #6,285
no !
Originally Posted by uniterested observer #4,358
OK....
see you tomorrow !
see you tomorrow !
05-25-2005, 09:12 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by ctC230K
lol wow 7 pages, I haven't read anything but the first post and watched the video but I can tell from the shifting that that C230 is AUTOMATIC!!!
Also I bet the C230 was in 5th or 6th gear on the highway while the C240 was in 3rd or 4th.
a good attempt at trying to fool most people into believing the C240 really is faster but next time test a 6 speed C230 and use the proper gear for acceleration!!
the one part of this video that is a dead give away that something isn't right here is when they start from about 20mph, it would be a cold day in hell before that c240 could beat a c230 at that speed (20-80 mph). at 80 mph it would probably walk away slowly like it did a couple times but definatly not at 20 mph.
good try but you didn't fool everyone.
Also I bet the C230 was in 5th or 6th gear on the highway while the C240 was in 3rd or 4th.
a good attempt at trying to fool most people into believing the C240 really is faster but next time test a 6 speed C230 and use the proper gear for acceleration!!
the one part of this video that is a dead give away that something isn't right here is when they start from about 20mph, it would be a cold day in hell before that c240 could beat a c230 at that speed (20-80 mph). at 80 mph it would probably walk away slowly like it did a couple times but definatly not at 20 mph.
good try but you didn't fool everyone.
05-25-2005, 09:23 PM
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'05 C230SS 6MT, 1966 Triumph TR4a IRS, Shelby Cobra 427 Supercharged
Originally Posted by schwarzwagen
yeah, you guys are cool... shouldn't your mom be calling you for dinner or smth?
But thanks for asking!
05-25-2005, 09:25 PM
#74
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1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
smth = silly movies that horrify
otherwise, what's for dinner ?
otherwise, what's for dinner ?
05-25-2005, 09:32 PM
#75
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Thread Starter
Originally Posted by delbomber
No need to get snippy....
You're right, the figures I used were from different years and testers. BUT they were completely objective, were run on numerous cars, and were deon by professional drivers.
I'm not saying the extra passenger is the reason for the results I've read are in the video...but don't downplay or patronize us, please...
You're results may be legit, but they are not representative of the whole. Professional tests bear this out, not paper tests...these results have been translated using basic newtonian principles. The C240 COULD pull ahead, maybe you missed that in my post, but at best it would be by a very slight margin, rendering the supposed results in your video way off.
You have me on the verge of arguing which is faster again, and I won't let that happen...
Feel free to think what you want...it goes against every shred of independent test and math that led to cars existing in the first place. But hey, it's a free country. Without a minority there would be no majority.
Cheers.
You're right, the figures I used were from different years and testers. BUT they were completely objective, were run on numerous cars, and were deon by professional drivers.
I'm not saying the extra passenger is the reason for the results I've read are in the video...but don't downplay or patronize us, please...
You're results may be legit, but they are not representative of the whole. Professional tests bear this out, not paper tests...these results have been translated using basic newtonian principles. The C240 COULD pull ahead, maybe you missed that in my post, but at best it would be by a very slight margin, rendering the supposed results in your video way off.
You have me on the verge of arguing which is faster again, and I won't let that happen...
Feel free to think what you want...it goes against every shred of independent test and math that led to cars existing in the first place. But hey, it's a free country. Without a minority there would be no majority.
Cheers.
I dont know if i am patronizing anyone. Could you elaborate
I do like the nature of the US with minority and majority right but this is about fact and fiction
