Brandon @ Kleemann

The pictures of the steel hub pulley are the ring installed on a factory pulley- not the all alloy one. If you do a quick search on the board you will see that these pics are the same pulley as posted several months before.

Brandon @ Kleemann

You are a funny guy- really- you must just love stirring it up!!!

Any jerk worth his slide rule knows that you dont put an alloy hub against a radial oil seal- it will last a few days MAX- Didnt I start all this BS with a similar comment?

You must think peoples attention span is way short..

Boo2

So how is the COMPLETE Kleemann kit for the C32 coming along? Specs, test results, etc. We have been waiting for a while!!

C230 Sport Coup

LMAOROTF !!!

Oh, I'm loving this!
And I'm wondering where it will go!
The suspense is killing me!

Yes, I can't help but wonder how the AF ratio can be any different between pulley's or rather
that both will be running leaner.
It only give me pause to buying ANY kit, before ALL you fools blow up your motors and warranties!

How about we get some boxing gloves and let you guy duke it out? I'll sell tickets!
Biff! Whap! Badabing! Badaboom!

BTW, how much is the Kleeman kit just out of curiousity?
Kleeman, is there some electrolysis issue that comes to bear, between the steel and alloy?
Is that what your reffering to?

Whats this about a Radial oil seal?
What IS a radial oil seal for those of us without slide rules? (Whats a slide rule ;-) Oh. From the beforetime, pre-computer era...)
A few days at most?
Well, Buell, let us know later this week if yer car blows the seal. The only time I ever had to replace a cranckshaft seal was on my Toyota Pickup at like 60K miles or so...reliable transport my ****!

Buellwinkle

I'm still waiting for Brad's response on what's included in the kit besides what I mentioned and what has Kleemann done to mitigate the A/F ratio besides ignore it. They've never installed one, that's why he doesn't know. So since Brad won't respond then maybe Kleemann can explain. If it's not an issue then let him guaranttee that. Most people that have purchased a pulley take the manufacturers word for it and won't dyno for themselves.

As for the oil seal. On most cars there's an oil seal where the crankshaft exits the motor (front and back). Otherwise the oil would not stay in the oil pan long. Mercedes and some other cars are unique in that the pulley is recessed into the motor a little bit and the oil seal is against the pulley instead of the crank. This is why the factory pulley does not have paint in that area. As ASP did and Kleemann copied (only kidding), a steel ring was pressed on this area to reduce the chance that the seal will wear out the pulley at that point. Although this method maybe new to Kleemann it is an old standard practice at ASP and is used in all their pulleys where the pulley comes in contact with the front crank seal. Kleeman's previous alloy pulleys had a steel plate that attached to the crank and the alloy pulley attached to the steel plate. This is in now way a bad thing, it's to protect your motor from damage and I'm sure Kleemann would agree. Kleemann has test this for a while as I've commented on to many times and also ASP has tested this method on many different cars without incident.

Of course there are risk associated with any mod you make to your car, even installing different light bulbs or stereos. The best thing is to be informed on all the issues and do everything to reduce your risk. That's why I would recommend a chip if you are concerned about a/f ratio as I am. It's not damaging my car because it's not pulling back timing because of pinging. I asked Vadim at Evosport to check this with his OBDII scanner and all is well, all the way to 6,200 rpm. So for me, the price of the ASP pulley and chip is still under a grand, a good bargain for the combined HP you'll get.

otoupalik

As for waiting, well, I actually do have work to do. I just don't sit around waiting for these posts. Maybe you have more free time then I do?

The complete kit that I was referring to was for Linh, as that was the example you were using. He should have gotten the kit which is:
[list=1][*]Crank Pulley[*]Alt Pulley[*]Belt[*]Plugs[*]MAF relocation kit[*]Badges[/list=1]

When we have installed the system for the C-Coupe it does not need the relocation kit or plugs. On the cars we have put it on (in HB and our location in Mountain View) we have only experienced problems with cars that had the upsoute software.

I am sorry, we have installed them. Oh, but that is right, you have nothing better to do but to sit outside our shop and count what products we install? Is that right? Why in the world do you make such outlandish and ridiculous remarks? That is not the way to get people to actually listen to you and belive what you are saying my friend!

Thanks

Brad

Buellwinkle

OK, I'm sorry, Brad is correct, the Kleemann pulley will maintain your factory A/F ratio and is the only pulley to be able to do so besides the factory pulley.

So Brad, if I pay for a Kleemann alloy pulley would you be willing to do double the refund and admit it publicly if you are wrong? To be successful you would have to maintain the same fuel ratio as a stock pulley or about 12:1 average and no leaner than 12.5:1 while providing the same or better HP/Torque than ASP. But I want it done at a modern Evosport facility in So Cal, not your house or Sho Shop.

And, yeah, your right, I'm bored!

otoupalik

Nope, the Renntech or Carlsson ones work well too as I understand. In fact, you will see I reference RennTech a few times. Of course you likely don't even actually read the posts you reply to, you just reply in your typically unprofessional and immature manner.

You can buy any pulley you want. In fact, I am sure there are other Kleemann dealers who might sell to you. It is not worth my time to deal with you anymore. As you stated, you are too good to be serviced at our current shop. I will pass that on to Vadim, I am sure he will appreciate that (have you ever seen a 6'4" 260lb russian really pissed off? - you will!). Offer you double back, you are funny!

For anyone that is actually interested in the pulley kits, I know that we or any other Kleemann dealer will in fact stand behind the kits and guarantee certain results.

Thanks

Brad

Davidta

On a less agruementative note, what are the advatages to having the holes in the alooy pulley that kleemann put in, I assume they are there to lighten the pulley and allow it to be spun more easily, but if so why would ASP not machine the exes material in the same manner, it looks like from the pictures I have seen even the stock pulley has had the access machined out. Would the weight savings form this proccess be so negliable it is not worth it for anything other than styling? I would be realy interested in the weight differences between the ASP pulley and the Kleemann.

Buellwinkle

Brad, I'm just messing with you. Sho Shop is a great place and Vadim is very knowledgable, you can learn from him. Sorry, dude, I'm going to have to tell him you called him a fat angry russian.

DavidTa, The engineers at ASP purposely did not try to make the pulley as light as it can be to maintain a balance between the flywheel and crank pulley and to maintain a certain amount of weight to absorb the harmonics. Please feel free to call ASP and ask for Lee. I'm not an engineer and can only repeat what they have told me. My pulley is a prototype and may weigh a little different than a new one. Using a federally approved scale (the post office) it weighs 5.2 lbs. My stock pulley weighs 9 lbs. even. The outside diameter is 8.8" and I can't tell you the diameter at the belt because I don't have the calipers to read it but ASP should give you that if you ask, they told me once but I forgot, something like 8.6".

It is only through the free exchange of information that each of you will be able to make an informed decision and for the rest enjoy the entertainment. I just wish more pulley companies would join the conversation.

otoupalik

Great question! Much better then just saying Ugly!

The design is in fact to lighten the pulleys while retaining strength. If you have ever looked at a race car, every surface that can be is drilled. This is a great way to make something as light as you can, yet give up little to no strength and rigidity.

All the BMW pulleys we manufacture are also drilled in a like manner. It is really common. We have weighed our pulleys before and after drilling and while it is not huge, the difference is enough that it does translate into 1-2 HP.

Thanks

Brad

gab

oh wait. Evosport has a shop in mountain view?

otoupalik

Vadim won't be too happy to hear from you after your last post about our shop! I don't think he will care too much what you have to say! Good luck!

Thanks

Brad

Buellwinkle

Brad, I was just being funny because when the ASP pulley came out, Brandon called it ugly which led to some funny remarks about a morbidly obese man was more likely to see his ********* than someone seeing an installed pulley in a coupe. They are actually both very finely machined pullies with great finish on them. So answer the man Brad, what's the weight difference between the two pulleys? I told you the weight of the ASP pulley. Please include the weight of the badges as that may slow the car down (LOL).

Brandon @ Kleemann

The holes are drilled to remove mass- while retaining strength. Our pulley is 3.8 lbs (1.4 lbs lighter than ASP). The cross-sectional thickness may differ as well as I dont see the holes adding up to over 1 lbs.

Every machine shop does things differently- Its my guess that having to meet a very low selling price requirement meant they reduced costs everywhere possible. The first place to reduce costs is cycle time for the part (how long it takes to make). A modern CNC machine FLIES through operations- I dont see the holes at much machine time. HOWEVER- chamfering (deburring) the tool hole edge is basically a hand operation, this is where the savings might be.

linh

Kleemann,

So because i didn't use your MAS relocation kit, is the reason why i have lean problem? I think that is what brad are saying. Please correct me if i'm wrong. I did personally talk to you about the MAS kit and you said that it ok, and that i don't need it since i already relocated the MAS myself. To my understanding from you, without the MAS kit, it will create a "black hole" around 3000 rpm not lean out the engine !

Brandon @ Kleemann

linh-

Reloacting the MAF is critical to the "stumble" at 3200 RPMS- not AF ratios.

linh

Kleemann,

Thank you. That's exactly what i thought. It have nothing to do with A/F ratio. I has no "stumble" at all, at any rmp.

C230 Sport Coup

I'd really appreciate if someone would say how much the Kleeman pulley costs.
And if it's not too much, as someone else asked,
What shop in mountain view?
And whats a MAS? (Airflow sensor? Does this need to be moved?)
I wish you guys would stop fighting long enough to answer a question or 2.

Lynn

The alloy pulley discussed here is $899, but there is an introductory special at Evosport for $100 less. There is a ring which fits over the stock pulley. It provides a slightly smaller hp increase because it is heavier. It costs $499.

Your car does not need to have the mass airflow sensor relocated. W202 C230k sedans and older SLK230's need to have their MAS's moved to eliminate a dead spot at 3000 to 3200 rpms.

Boo2

Brad,

How are the C32 kits coming along. I really don't know anything about the technical aspects of pulley upgrades - don't care either except for the fact that it will increase hp and comes from a company that is reputable and that I recognize. I don't mind spending a little more money for that peace of mind and knowing that I have a BRAND name upgrade under the hood. Besides, it's a benz you didn't go cheap on the car why go cheap on the parts.

Buellwinkle

We just have different ideas on what a crank pulley should cost. I think $350 is too much and he thinks $799 is a bargain (LOL). Then compared to Renntech they're both steals!

otoupalik

The Kleemann kit is either $599 for the ring type or $799 ($899 regular price) for the alloy.

There are two KLEEMANN dealers in Nor Cal:

1. Canepa Design
2. Conversion Techniques

Also, we have an affiliate shop in Mountain View - Corporate Autowerks.

A MAS is in deed the airflow sensor. You do not need to move it on the C-coupe.

Thanks

Brad

otoupalik

They are comming. We will have one of the first sets on our own C32 with dyno charts up here ASAP!

Thanks

Brad

gab

Cool... so can I buy the pulley at discount price from evosport and install it at Corporate Autowerks? Or do I have to go to Canepa Design?

I'm sick of dealing with Conversion Techniques cos they dont sound very honest when quoting labor charges (4-5 hrs @ close to $100/hr)