Jim Banville

It would have been SOOOOO much more helpful and endearing on your part to update your potential future customers here on the progress of your kit rather than demean them because Evosport started a thread full of empty promises

spankdoggie

I guess we aren't going to get anywhere with them by arguing... Myself, I am just going to chill out and not get involved in it anymore.

I suppose these guys are trying their best, but as for myself, I won't bring the subject up again in a personal way.

MB-BOB

I think this is a good idea. I think all are learning from this.

1) Complaining doesn't get you anywhere
2) evosport will probably never pre-announce a project here, ever again.

HoustonC230

Wow - for once I agree with this crazy canadian!

Do it right, give a good price, and I'll be happy. The sooner the better, but I'd rather have a good pulley next year than an expensive paperweight next month.

CynCarvin32

MB-BoB

I doubt anyone has issue with they stating what is in the works but they should be honest and upfront about what they are doing and what the time table really is. I did not go back and read the post but i recall vadim said something about the part being on the car soon and on the dyno right after that.

If the simply said the car was not ready for the dyno people would be ok with it but they instead became agressive. I cant believe that more people to take offense to the lack of respect shown for customers.

Who here works in a business where customers service is paramount? Remeber the old phrase "customer comes first?"

Who knows!

I like the idea of using locked threads for all project updates for it eliminates all this fuss and allows them to distribute the info ina controlled manner. Simple solution. Just give Vadim Moderator status if he does not already have it.

mctwin2kman

The problem is certain people within EvoSport stated they would update in days and weeks time and failed to do that. Not that the project was announced. There is nothing wrong with announcing a new project. The problem is broken promises, in this case statements made that were later not honored. That is the part that burns me and some others. Then when requests for that info were made certain people got a little snippy. Bad for business is all this has done. Won't hurt them as far as they are concerned since the loss of just a few customers does not hurt anyone. Of course in the long run if you **** enough people off then you have to worry about your bottom line. I have no issue with a tuner being excited about a new project and mentioning it. Just don't state you will give updates and not give any. Then later insult the people you are aiming your product at. Not a good idea in business to alienate your potential customer base. Just my opinion though.

MB-BOB

Well, anyone can make a mistake... each of us like to be forgiven when we sometimes say we will produce something but later find it's not doable.

Without focusing on any one post here, some seem to state in response that because a promise was made, it goes to the bank without compromise or flexibility. "Gimme what you said, no excuses, period... talk to the hand."

Well, we've all had bosses make similar demands of each of us. I'm not sure that most of us react favorably to such unreasonable orders (not requests). So when I catch myself being this way, I try to walk a mile in the other shoes.

I hope you all understand... I have read, but stayed out of this debate for a long time... just sitting here trying to understand all sides. I have no stake in whether evosport produces a product you want, nor do I care to buy any of it myself. I don't want to be the third man in the hockey fight, either. I just feel that there's enough room for soul searching by everyone in this catfight.

I used to moderate a racing sim game site as well, and the problems were exactly the same there... the developers show a screenshot of a car model Work in Progress (I painted skins to fit the wireframes for many), and suddenly the readership is making insistant demands for it, along with all the hating when the developer doesn't pull through, immediately. It got to the point where the developer no longer shows, or talks about any WIPS, let along making any commitments. So I just operate in the background, painting skins and avoiding the temptation to post any WIPs. It makes the membership of that forum feel left out of the loop, wondering if anything is going on, period. The posts on that forum then take a very repetitive tone, "Have you heard anything?" Or "... I know they're working on something." or, "does anybody have any guesses when....?" Pretty boring stuff, huh?

So the question is, do you want to be alienated, without any info, or would you rather feel included, accepting some teasers at face value, with the understanding that it's soup when it's soup?

My only thought is that everyone should step back, take a deep breath, and give each other some space... just my 2 cents.

Jim Banville

My point is... WHY didn't they just keep people here updated with info that they HAD during the development process like they said they were going to do? What are they afraid of? If the prototype resulted in less HP, why not just state the numbers with the caveat "still in development"? If you, as a company, are scared to share the ups and downs of R&D, then DON'T start threads like these!!!!! All that can result is "bad blood"

mbny

although i would never do business with evosport, i think they still need to be given the opportunity to deliver on the most important guarentee that was given. that is "So it will definitely be before October." if that is not fulfilled, then it truely is broken promises as you mentioned. although numbers ahead of time would be great, i'm sure they will be given at least at the time the product is ready for distribution on october 1st

like many others, i am too shocked by the level of unprofessionalism and lack of class. very different from many of the sponsors/vendors on E46fanatics which i remember several occassions of them being ripped apart by members, only to counterattack with a professional, respectful response. that made us give the vendor the benefit of the doubt and even i held out to see what they would release just b/c of their professionalism, maturity and customer service. i've gone out of my way to do business with them even though they as well made "empty promises" as far as deadlines. to me, sometimes customer service is more important than having the best product. could evosport have the best product on the market when finally released, possibly, but i doubt it will be by a significant or noticable difference that would allow me or my fellow members to be disrespected. i'm sure there are some members on MBworld who will still do business with evosport given the disrespect shown to many forum members, but i'm sure many have been lost as well such as myself.

mctwin2kman

And that was my basic point!

MB-BOB, I agree with what you said. I know sometimes things just don't go the way they were originally intended. The problem is the attitude and that is really all it is.

Vadim @ evosport

In case your memories are short, our attitude came up in response to attitude from you.


If you are willing to talk *****, be ready to get it back.


Is this that hard to understand?

tommy

I kind of see both sides on this. First of all, anyone who believes a timeframe from a tuner should have their heads examined. Especially since everyone agrees that they'd rather have it done right than to have a piece of crap at the artificially-set time. Things happen, and priorities change; it's a business, not a charity.

However, since it is a business, it is odd to see such a pissing contest develop with your potential customers. Reminds me of the Brembo fight that was between Randall and Evosport on the old Benzsport. Now, that was a classic. Of course, several of the postings on here deserved a good b1tchslapping as they were completely out of whack.

I do have to admit it - this thread is a guilty pleasure to watch. It's like Jerry Springer meets American Chopper.

Vadim @ evosport

Too bad we can not throw things...............

taylor192

Eventually everyone agrees with me

My criticism of this debate is how it was handled. Evosport made a promise with a date, a mistake in the business world, yet you gotta get costumer interest at the same time, and its a delicate balance. I'd just like to know why the wait and what's been going on.
- If its cause things were tried and failed, that's great, at least progress is being made.
- If its cause manufacturing is taking longer, resources are unavailable, I understand cause the market isn't as lucrative and we cannot expect the same level of support as other MB owners willing to spend much more for sooner results. For the most part W203 owners are bargain hunters, and as such we have to be more patient.

An update with a status and a reason would tide me over.

This thread reminds me of a converstion with Jerry from Formymercedes.com, and I ultimately didn't buy from him cause he took my comments about prices personally - that's a mistake in business and he lost $1200 USD to someone else.

otoupalik

Just to be clear, NO (ZERO) promisses were made. I am not sure why people think that there were, but that is not accurate.

Things have been tried, and the results were not acceptable. Gains were found, but not sufficient. As such, the parts are being re-designed a bit to acheive the level of performance and reliability required.

Thanks,
Brad

Vadim @ evosport

New pulley is being made. I was at machine shop to confirm several dimensions.

IF schedule allows, we will have it tested ASAP.

Hopefully this is clear to the ones who have problems understanding designing and producing one-off parts.

And to everyone else - Thank you for your support!



On the development plan are:

1. Software
2. Cold Air Box
3. Header
4. Exhaust
5. Small shot NOS kit

If anyone else has any other ideas for a product, please use PM.

taylor192

I'd be interested to see if a Cold Air box/intake would actually make a difference on our cars, MBs placement seems very good, I can't picture improving it very much and those with custom CAI haven't posted any gains other than the butt dyno.

Header/cat is the way to go. No aftermarket exhaust has shown much of a gain.

NOS is catering to the wrong crowd here.

The biggest gain I could want would be to reprogram ESP to be less intrusive at higher RPMs. When shifting during some spirited driving ESP kicks in, I always have to turn it off, the car feels faster with it off.

Buellwinkle

Wow, in 4 years I've never seen Vadim this mad, keep it up, I love the passion.

Vadim @ evosport

Taylor192:

1. On cold air box, we have some ideas we want to check out. The way MAF is positioned, it will require some fabrication, but we might see some usefull gains.

2. You are right, exhaust will likely to be mostly for sound.

3. I am not a big fan of juice myself, but car's owner is. So if he makes a small shot kit (50HP) that is "plug-and-play", we might as well offer it for sale.

4. ESP is going to be tough. None of the software guys have cracked the code or have any idea on how to do it. Limitied slip diff might be a solution here.

Buellwinkle: Thanks!

Jim Banville

I don't have ANY problem with lack of final product. I have a problem with a company that starts a thread about development of a long anticipated product with the "implication" that we would see some sort of results in the short term, good or bad. If Evosport would have LONG AGO said, "We dyno'd the pulley and got XXXX results. Now were are going to try XXXX and let you know what happens", I don't think any of arguing in this thread would have started. It was big mistake to start this thread if the R&D results weren't going to be shared, which was CLEARLY the implication.

Saprissa

thank you Jim for your contribution.
Captain Obvious needs his tighties back !!


how about an EVOSPORT sticker for your Lexus ?

vraa

Damnit man, they are mbworld.org stickers!

Saprissa

i know Ricky.

I'm talking about the EVOSPORT stickers !

but if he wants to stick a MBWorld.org sticker on his Lexus too, then he knows where to go !

vraa

I wouldn't mind an Evosport sticker, but that's in the pipeline.
I have a Clublexus and mbworld.org sticker on my X5.

Saprissa

dude, ask Brad....

i got my EVOSPORT stickers a long time ago !