Pweb

See below:

http://mbspy.bacosys.be/mbquality.htm

Buellwinkle

I can't imagine MB quality going downhill, it was never uphill to begin with.

session

i think the articles citing the warranty expenses skyrocketing are the most compelling evidence. DC really needs to do something about this, seeing as their chrysler brands aren't helping. the transmission quality in those is simply a joke. i say this from the experience of my dad replacing 4 (yes, FOUR) of them in his 2000 jeep grand cherokee, my girlfriend repairing hers three times in 3 months in her 95 dodge stratus, and my uncle replacing his in his 2001 dodge durango.

Boo2

Actually they were good in the higher end models, not the low ones.

This has been an issue echoing for the past year. What Mercedes has to its advantage is a Brand name that is associated with quality, rather than the product itself. When you shift focus from exclusivity to volume, there will usually be a slippage in quality. In today's modern society, Mercedes seems to be getting away with form and function. The C-Class looks good, but to me is put together kinda cheap in comparison to Mercedes' old standards. Advancement in technology is not an indication of an improvement in quality. All we can say now is that at least its a Benz!

viper

This applies to everything these days. For example look at how they used to build computer keyboards. You could sit on them and they would still work. Now they are made as cheap as possible. I suspect that even the highest priced MB has experienced cheapness to some degree.

speedfrk

Well, you do have to wonder what they are thinking when they will spend more money to tear down, inspect and rebuild the trans in my c230 rather than just replace it. The service rep said he couldn't understand why they would do it that way unless they just want to satisfy their curiosity about why the trans was shifting so bad. But they are still waiting for parts to come in from Germany to do the job, so they are also paying for the rental car, and pissing me off. Pissing me off may actually cost them the most, since I am much less likely to buy another car from them. Having to order transmission parts from Germany is outrageous.

SoCal240/6

Bob, as moderator, shouldn't you delete this blasphemy?

MB-BOB

I don't think I should SoCal. What else would you masochistic guys have to talk about?

Of course, since you're all here, one grenade would get all of you. Got any handy, Wyatt? (Down, boy... just teasing!)

Boo2

I wouldn't exactly consider a Mercedes as something sacred, though i'm sure many people worship their car - I guess what's valuable is relative.

benggolf

more to have me looking at Lexus. Yes, I know its not an MB, but finishing, sound system, service, etc. is top notch.

Suddenly, the SC430 looks OK. LOL.

SFC320

I worship mine. It's 3:10! I'm 10 minutes late for my afternoon prayer session. I'm off to the parking lot......

c230_2k2

basically most of the cars manufacturers are trying to cut on everything that they can to lower down prices and compete with competitors....you can notice most of the new cars have are getting more plastic parts inside instead of nice aluminum or metal ones...i think they just have to do this to cut down prices and compete.

Boo2

Doesn't make sense in terms of the S-Class when Mercedes is replacing parts with plastic when BMW is still using the metal/aluminum parts. Also the fit-and-finish of the leather seats in the MBSPY review is not the first time i've seen that comparison.

viper

I think BMW has been also been doing this. Just look a little closer and you will see they have cheapened things too.

Boo2

Yeah, but not as much. And the idea is to be comparable if not better in quality than BMW.

pixmation

When they had my car and waiting for parts from Germany, it took them more than 2 months before they got the parts. Good Luck.

SoCal240/6

Actually, I think that is only half true.

MB has definately "cheapened up," but "lesser" car mfrs have actually improved in materials and quality.

So, now, there is not a huge difference between cars any more, they have all started to move towards the middle.

Example: Compare a 1980 VW Rabbit and a 1980 MB in fit and finish, quality of materials, "feel" of the cars, etc. There is a world of difference. Same is true if you compared a 1980 Audi to a 1980 MB

Now compare a 2002 VW Golf or a 2002 Audi A4 or A6 with a 2002 MB. They are not worlds apart anymore.

MarkL

I don't know about the BMW 7-Series, but the 3-Series is definitely lacking in any quality materials. Just look at the central cup holder area that looks like it was taken from a Corolla. Also, the 3-Series leather seats look awful after a year or two -- take a look inside one next time you walk by.

I think the attention to detail is still very evident in M-B, especially the C-Class in relation to the E. Where do you see the "cheapness"?

speedfrk

They air shipped the parts and they came in yesterday-but I won't get it back until next week since the transmission mechanic did not want to be hurried to get it done. That's OK with me! he said they were putting all new syncros and shifting forks in plus he would check every tolerence to make sure it was in spec. They were also going to drive it for an extended distance on the interstate to see if they could duplicate the stiff clutch problem. Hopefully, it will be done on monday.

viper

I will have to agree with this. The 3 series is not up to the standards of the other Bimmers. And don't get me started about the stupid window switches.

Boo2

You have to compare "Like" cars. If you look at the MBSPY article then you can see the difference. Using plastic crap on the C makes a little sense, but using it on the S is unacceptable.

Again, you are comparing the old E versus the C which has undergone a major facelift. I don't think you can say that about the new E - and like I said, "Advancement in technology is not an indication of an improvement in quality". I see some "cheapness" in mine, but then again, we have different cars!

Outland

I would have to agree regarding the Bimmers, a friend has a 318 that's much newer than the Saturn I used to own, the interior of my Saturn wore better over 10years than the BMW. Didn't MT or R&T run an article about a year ago about the cheap materials inside the BMW SUV?

I think the C is pretty tight, interms of fit, finish and materials quality. The car is rock solid, no squeaks, rattles, etc.. The last Benz I was really familar with was my folks early 80s 300TD, so I'm no expert...but to me it has that same wonderful feeling of quality and durability. For the price, there's nothing else out there that has the same level of quality..at least on the Coupe, IMHO. The Acura RSX, although a nice car for the money, feels like a top trim Civic inside. Not bad, but not an MB, either.

GhiaDad

Folks,
I'm old, therefore old fashioned (I remember Lucas electrics in British sports cars in the '60's), but I'm impressed with the overall quality in most of the complex cars of this age. My 1st new Mercedes was (is) a '98 M-Class, which has taken its share of grief over quality issues. Mine had the driver's window switch replaced twice, and a transmission sensor replaced when the 4-wheel drive became 2-wheel drive while driving on sand. My C240 (5 months old) has no problems thus far. To be fair, my 2001 GMC Yukon Denali (boat puller) is over a year old with only a suspected computer problem because it occasionally fails to react to the key-fob unlock command and at the same time fails to open the garage door with the built-in button.
Bottom line, I'm sorry some have cars with problems, but I suspect the majority, maybe the vast majority of MB cars are at least above average in overall quality. I also believe if you total the number of "features" which may fail, the MB brand has excellent quality.
My bride of 32 years drives "her" C240 to work each day proudly! (all of 0.6miles!). She loves the drive, the back shade, the memory seats, the auto wipers, (the AutoClass CD changer!) and the trunk-open on the fob. I hate to think of what this car would be like if it had 1060 vintage Lucas electrics!!
GhiaDad

trench

Most would rather forget the Prince of Darkness.

Ooooo...can you say, "carbon deposits." Hope you borrow it from her occasionally to clean them out.

Cheers, BT

GhiaDad

Trench,

I, too, worry about carbon from my wife's short commute, so we use the C240 to visit my daughter on Orlando; about 100 miles of 80 mph interstate.