Buellwinkle

I specifically asked Renntech about the pulley and that was Renntech's response. Sorry if you get conflicting info from a Renntech dealer vs. Renntech themselves. Randy sometimes makes promises for Renntech that he has no business doing. I also specificially asked if the pulley causes damage to the supercharger or motor would the motor parts be covered and they answered with the warranty that says only parts they sell are covered. If you have any doubts as to what Renntech warrants, what federal and local laws their products comply with, please ask Renntech and not a Randy who does not work for Renntech. Randy gets very emotional when I reply to posts, I don't feel the love anymore. Can you sense the tension? It's just a pulley, a hunk of metal that attaches to the crankshaft and spins a belt and no more. If paying 3 to 4 times as much for a pulley makes you feel like you've made the right decision then go for it. If buying an ECU mod that hasn't been released yet makes you feel safe then go for it. Remember they warranty the ECU mod, not the engine. Despite what Randy says, you will get more HP from the Kleemann or ASP lightweight alloy pulleys than with the combined Renntech Pulley & Chip (based on Renntech's numbers vs. Kleemann's numbers).

renncpe

Buellwinkle you are such a loser. I'll be takening orders for the pulley and chip combo. Why do you work so hard to slam Renntech and now me? You have never owned or ordered a product from me, never driven one, never tested one. I don't get it.

For everyone interested I have the ECU installed as of today, I will post more information as I get a chance to test it out. Renntech will also be finishing some work on the intercooler over the next two weeks. I posted a Dyno from a Renntech car on this board that records a better gain then claimed by Renntech's web site. 224 HP and 248 ft/torque that was with a air filter btw. I have explained before that they claim a min gains. it's always better to get more than claimed rather than less .

I will be sure to let those that are intersted know more on the priceing, I meet with the Renntech guys tomarrow. I will also get a chance to drive in an E55 they just finished super charging and chipping.

Buellwinkle

See, there's that tension again. I can almost see the twitch when he hears, Buellwinkle. Randy, I can't help it, your so easy to annoy. 224HP, hmmm, just a few less than Kleemann's 232HP, must be the lighter weight, but wait they have a chip so you can reach the same HP as the Kleemann pulley. Hmm, what if you combine a chip with Kleemann. Choices, choice, choices.

renncpe

I think that 1/4 mile times will be better to judge the cars by, than dynos are. why don't you make some runs and post your time strips. I will do the same, them we don't have to worry about matching up dyno's

Buellwinkle

Yes, that would be ideal, a dead stock C230 Coupe with a Renntech pulley vs. one with the Kleemann pulley vs. one with an ASP pulley. Now where could we find that combination in the same area to pull it off. Timeslips wouldn't be fair because you have lots of variations day to day and track to track. They have to be side by side, on the same track. There's one by me at Carlsbad Raceway in So Cal. The other problem is drag racing skills and reaction time, too large a variable. What may work better is side by side dyno runs on the same dyno, same car, same day, alternate pulleys. That way there's no variation, no one car had more hp to begin with, no gear, transmission, wheel, muffler, intake differences. I'm up for Evosport, site sponsor if someone wants to 1) sponsor it (dyno time and labor), 2) provide the gear. That would probably settle the question once and for all. The trouble I see is that the high priced tuners have to much to lose and little to gain to take on such a challange. What if ASP was 10hp better than Renntech, that wouldn't do much for Renntech's ego. Up for it Randy, Brandon, you must have the connections to pull it off.

linh

This is the best and most accurate testing.....LET DO IT !!! I know for sure that Renntech and Kleemann wouldn't dare to compete with ASP pulley. I hope they prove me wrong...lol. Btw, I can do all the installation for all three cars.

kineda

I'd definately like to see this happen! It'd settle all the debates about which pulley is the best it terms of performance. Then all that would be left, would be reliability in the long run.

dswildfire

i have a stock car with no mods u could use for a baseline.

kineda

So do about 95% of the rest of the c-coupe owners on this board.

inflectionpt

I am a newbie with MB but have had Porches for a while.... i'd be happy to be an anonymous sponsor... let's do it... the side by side test is a great idea... hate to see ppl so bent out of shape... com'on guys... these are only cars.... who cares... it's not like it's religion or anythign....

peet

Why not contact European Car mag and have them supervise/write it up? Then there'd be a judge on this grudge match! Plus, I'm willing to bet they have access to Dyno and timing gear for the match!

P

KJ-TypeR

Why don't you just DYNO the mutherfukker and prove your claims?

90% of North America uses a DYNOJET...as long as you do a BEFORE and AFTER using the SAME DYNOJET (not hard to do since you are a friggin' company) you can make a fair BEFORE AND AFTER COMPARISON.

Here, I'll tell you how to do it. Strap your C230K on the dyno with stock software. Do 5 dyno runs and pick the 3rd best run (Median run).

Then let the car cool and install your new software.

Now do 5 more runs and pick the 3rd best run (Median run).

Finally, OVERLAY the 3rd best run STOCK and the 3rd best run AFTER the chip. (easy to do with Dynojet software).

Now you have a graph that shows BEFORE AND AFTER. EASY!!!

This is will give potential purchasers a general idea of what to expect. This would take a MAXIMUM of 2 hours of dyno time. AT MOST, this would cost $200 US (that's if you are getting ripped off).

You'd make all that back and more by selling one chip!!!

If you have a problem with Buellwinkle, present the dyno graphs and shut him up. Otherwise, he has every right to be skeptical!

mdp c230k

You guys should take him up on his offer! If you both just put up or shut up we'll all be better off because we'll know once and for all who's system is best. Just remember that neither of you can take personal credit for the idea of a pulley or a chip. That means neither of you has the right to say that they were the ones to create a better setup. In other words, I don't want to hear Buellwinkle spouting about how smart and wonderful he is because he had someone make a rip off of a pulley if the ASP is more powerful.

KJ-TypeR

But that's just it...Buellwinkle does deserve a lot of credit for what he did.

If you've been in the market long enough, you know that most pulley kits go for around $100-$200 US for a complete kit. These kits are perfectly balanced and are top quality.

For someone to come in and ask for $1000+ for an alloy pulley is RIDICULOUS! They're just trying to rip you off because you drive a Mercedes. To be honest, most of the board members don't have any technical knowledge about cars and the way they work. They are tricked into believing all the marketing crap that is thrown at them by big name manufacturers. NOT EVERYONE is fooled by this, and there are some people on this board that know a lot of technical information.

I just hate to see people getting ripped off. I know it's not my money, and I really shouldn't give a *****. But I look at it this way...if manufacturers are allowed to rip people off when pricing their products, who's going to stop them? It'll just get worse and worse.

They try to justify the ridiculous cost of the pulley by saying "Look at how much HP you get from this mod, it's worth it". What a silly way to look at things. If the car was turbocharged, a MANUAL boost controller would cost $50US and make WAY more power than this stupid pulley. But you don't see people charging $1000 for Manual Boost Controllers that are made of parts that cost only $20 from Home Depot! If they did that, their market would be up in arms!!!

Of course, when it comes to Mercedes owners, they see fit to rape people up the *** when pricing their products.

I see this same garbage with BMW parts as well. The "Exhausts" for the E46 BMW M3 cost $1200 - $2000. The only problem is that this "Exhaust" is only a friggin' MUFFLER! How they can justify that cost is beyond me! The problem I have is that I'm probably going to have to pay that price because an exhaust is not as easy to copy as a pulley. Sure, I could get a "Custom Exhaust" made, but it'd probably sound and look like gargage.

Anyway, enough venting for me.

mdp c230k

KJ, my point is that Buellwinkle relied 100% on the technical knowledge of others to get where he is today with the pulley. If you read his posts you will see that his level of understanding is surface at best. In one post he admitting not knowing what a stretch bolt was. The sad thing is a true stretch bolt should only be used once, I wonder how many times he has his on and off. Well, if the pulley comes flying off we'll know why!

What you pay for in these higher prices is the R&D of a limited market product on a more expensive platform. In the case of the 'muffler' take a look at the quality of build between the two (granted 2K is really steep) and that will explain some of the cost. As far as the pulley, for every 1 MB pulley there are 250 ricer pulleys made so that is factor too. Lots goes into the pricing, including profits. In general MB owners are wealthier than ricers so that leads to the price the traffic will bear.

Bux

Common sense to see results of a product before you pay.

-It's like buying a car and the dealer won't tell you how much HP it has.:p

Buellwinkle

Exactly, that's what the forum is, a way for the world of enthusiast to communicate and make better products at affordable prices. If I'm seen a idiot for helping some people out in getting a pulley for 1/4th the price of what some tuners charge then too bad. If people don't like me getting the same exact air filter as some tuners sell for twice the price then too bad. In the ideal world, MBs would be treated the same as Audi, BMWs and other brands and have a more competitive tuner market. There is no reason that if a company makes products for other markets that they can't also make a similar part for the C-Coupe even if they don't have a German accent. I know my tactics upset 3 kinds of people, the tuners that now have to compete with the lower priced products, 2) the people that already spent the higher money and have the need to justify their high ticket items, 3) the brand aware consumer where money is no object and feels that the more they spend the better the product. But to those thinking about getting any pulley look what I have done for you, I not only provided a very viable source for a $350 alloy pulley but have actually forced some tuners to re-evaluate their pricing and come up with these offers to forums members. So if you ever wanted a Renntech or Kleemann pulley here's your chance to get them at lower prices that would not have likely been offered if not for the increased competition. And I did it for my own car and for the forum and not for my profit, I have no affiliation with ASP or ITG or any other car parts manufacturer or reseller.

I did e-mail magazines a while ago and car shows with my dyno results and an explanation of the mod and how several tuners have done this and never received a reply so if you know a magazine willing to do a shootout then great.

I see we have a sponsor, my car has the ASP pulley and ITG filter that can be replaced in 5 minutes with a factory filter. Also it's a 6 spd so it makes it quicker to replace the pulley. All we need now is loaner pulleys from Renntech and whoever else wants to enter the challange. If someone can get back to me with those other pulleys I'll ask Vadim if he's willing to participate and how much it will cost per pulley tested (labor to install plus dyno for each).

Buellwinkle

You are right, I'm neither an engineer or a mechanic. I have no idea how to run a CNC machine or make a crankshaft pulley. But I do know people that do and do it very well, same as many tuners, they don't know how to make a pulley either, they outsource it someone that does. Even Kleemann admits that he re-uses the bolts and he took his pulley off and on several times to my twice.

As for R&D, hmm, are you saying that ASP and I didn't do any R&D and we copied someone? Yes we copied the factory pulley and made it bigger. I made paper templates of the area and used that to estimate how big the pulley can be. I used simple math to calculated belt length. I was dead on for the belt. I was off by 1/16" on the pulley and had to be shaved down. I've never even seen another pulley (except the DSR S/C pulley) until the pulley that's in my car now was made. I did have measurements for a Vaeth pulley but that wasn't correct because it was for an older SLK230 and the info proved useless. We probably did as much R&D as anybody else. Heck they even tried 3 steel ring type pulleys and gave up on it. As a point of reference, I started discussions with ASP on February 5th, way before many of these tuners had a product to copy. I know it's hard to believe that ASP can sell a low volume product to us spoiled MB people willing to pay anything but it's being done. I'm sorry but there's really is no excuse for what some tuners charge for their products for our cars. It's a case of I don't sell enough to justify the R&D but they charge to much to sell many.

Spyke

As someone who still does a bit of exhaust design at his real job, this paragraph strikes me as rather humorous.

You don't want to spend the cash on the part designed/developed for the car, but you don't want to buy a generic (cheaper) system because it wasn't developed for the car...

This isn't to say I think $2000 for an exhaust isn't a lot of money, but it's not a whole lot more than we charge OEMs for custom built systems. And depending on how much development they actually do, the test equipment used is NOT cheap. Heck, we pay over $10,000 per year just to license some of the software we use...

Buellwinkle

OK, humor us with a reasonable cost muffler that fits our car as a bolt on will have a nice sound like Remus. Do it as a group buy for the forum to offset R&D costs. I would buy it. I would love a Remus muffler but I can't get myself to spend $600 on just a muffler. Here's a starting point...

BlackC230Coupe

Buellwinkle - i have one question for u. what the F*CK are u doing posting a picture of my exhaust around? do u have that pic saved on your computer to??????????

Buellwinkle

Naw, just save from one post to another. Don't keep copies on my computer. Maybe he can make us a Remus like exhaust for cheap. I would love the Remus, just can't bring myself to spend $600 although it's probably worth it.

TimmyC230boy

I just cant understand why Mercedes performance parts are so dang high. Camaro's Mustangs Audi's VW's Bimmers, they are plentiful and cheaper when it comes to aftermarket parts.. I mean my service guy at the Chevy dealership helped me make my own exhaust, and helped me install a Z06 intake manifold. Audi practically builds the cars to be tuned. This really has me not wanting another Benz. I didnt know it when I bought the car that it was this hard to mod. I figured it had a SC, that had been around in SLK for a few years. So slap a smaller sc pulley on it and presto more HP. NOPE. Mercedes just arent built to mod. Still a great car none the less. But $$$ to make it faster.

BlackC230Coupe

i hope he cant because i would be pist i wasted my money on it.

Buellwinkle

It's because of people like you that buy from these high priced tuners. Just say NO Timmy, you can do it, don't keep supporting these tuners just for quick fix, just say NO and help us build a better America, one where every MB owner is free to buy all the performance parts he wants for the same price as Camaro and Mustang owners. An America where you are not judged by the star on your gril. The America we love. God bless America.

BlackC230Coupe, sorry but it's the only way we can get this country back on track. By allowing free flow of information and making a better product for cheaper in Mexico. Besides, while we are all trying to get a less expensive muffler your are riding in style.