Close All Threads In The W203 Section! Rant
08-13-2006, 11:17 AM
#26
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C230K Coupe/Orion/C4/C5/CD/AMG Spoiler/V60/TeleAid, 2 MGB's
MB-Bob,
With all due respect (and from memory - you deserve every bit of it), the points of my earlier post were to dispell the all too common rudeness and admonish some people of their ability to correctly communicate.
In the evolution of this forum, I've seen it "change" from a very helpful and resourceful community to something well, less. There is more of an antagonistic and repelling aire now. Humor aside, this now seems to be accepted policy. Should this be permitted - particularly from a moderator who should be more resourceful or helpful than others? Probably not.
I've said this before, and at the risk of redundancy, I'll say it again - "Change" is not always good, but it does become an opportunity to grow in a more positive direction.
While the community at large may have more numbers than say...another MB forum...it's not about competition. If you have a new member that only posts twice and get's fed up with curt responses, was that person really a member at all? You have to agree that it's most important to keep the newest members involved without alienating them.
When a new member joins and has a question, it's usually simple and can be answered quite easily. Wouldn't it be more a positive building block to assist these members with their questions or concerns, rather than slinging various put downs or leaving them out in the cold? After the initial bevy of suggestions and assistance, they can then be easily guided to the search instructions. After all, it's about customer service...and these members are your customers.
Imagine if you went to an unfamiliar site and asked for specific instructions, and the response you received was "STFF dummy - oh, and here's a link to an innocuous site that will make you feel stupid and not be of any help."... Would you go back?
I think it's clear that it's time to revisit that "policy" (if it is), or at the very least - hold the offending parties accountable and take corrective measures to insure that MBWorld rises back to the top - a position once enjoyed by all. (When you've hired a negative manager - what should you do?)
With respect to my suggestion about implemeting a spell/grammar check option, after reading your post I see that you're absolutely correct - If people would only take the time to apply the rational intelligence that brought them to buy into this brand of car, then the world might be a saner place. As far as the checker? That's a viable solution for the lazy ones, but not necessarily the most appropriate.
Peace...
With all due respect (and from memory - you deserve every bit of it), the points of my earlier post were to dispell the all too common rudeness and admonish some people of their ability to correctly communicate.
In the evolution of this forum, I've seen it "change" from a very helpful and resourceful community to something well, less. There is more of an antagonistic and repelling aire now. Humor aside, this now seems to be accepted policy. Should this be permitted - particularly from a moderator who should be more resourceful or helpful than others? Probably not.
I've said this before, and at the risk of redundancy, I'll say it again - "Change" is not always good, but it does become an opportunity to grow in a more positive direction.
While the community at large may have more numbers than say...another MB forum...it's not about competition. If you have a new member that only posts twice and get's fed up with curt responses, was that person really a member at all? You have to agree that it's most important to keep the newest members involved without alienating them.
When a new member joins and has a question, it's usually simple and can be answered quite easily. Wouldn't it be more a positive building block to assist these members with their questions or concerns, rather than slinging various put downs or leaving them out in the cold? After the initial bevy of suggestions and assistance, they can then be easily guided to the search instructions. After all, it's about customer service...and these members are your customers.
Imagine if you went to an unfamiliar site and asked for specific instructions, and the response you received was "STFF dummy - oh, and here's a link to an innocuous site that will make you feel stupid and not be of any help."... Would you go back?
I think it's clear that it's time to revisit that "policy" (if it is), or at the very least - hold the offending parties accountable and take corrective measures to insure that MBWorld rises back to the top - a position once enjoyed by all. (When you've hired a negative manager - what should you do?)
With respect to my suggestion about implemeting a spell/grammar check option, after reading your post I see that you're absolutely correct - If people would only take the time to apply the rational intelligence that brought them to buy into this brand of car, then the world might be a saner place. As far as the checker? That's a viable solution for the lazy ones, but not necessarily the most appropriate.
Peace...
Last edited by Rick; 08-13-2006 at 10:08 PM.
08-13-2006, 11:33 AM
#27
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excites your girlfriend
you know on the bmw forums the general fanatics thread gets the same or similar questions asked every day and usually people reply with a helpful answer. maybe that's because there are so many more of them than w203 owners but still the question is answered with more than a stff.
08-13-2006, 12:15 PM
#28
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One with 4 wheels
When I first joined the forum, I learned quite fast that if I was to avoid getting flamed and flambe'd by members, it was better to STFF before posting ANYTHING.
HOWEVER........the Search function is not an omniscient, super intelligent feature. And I agree that it's frustrating that many members seems to think so. It's heavily flawed due to the fact that it doesn't seem to always compile the CORRECT list of what you're asking it to search for in the first place. Many times during a search I have to spend a good 30-45 min to get CLOSE to what I'm looking for, and honestly, it gets old FAST.
So I can understand where these guys are coming from, and I have to agree with them......STFF is not always the solution. People just have to be willing and courteous enough to help out in this community. So WHAT if a question has been asked 1 million times? Help out a fellow enthusiast and member!
HOWEVER........the Search function is not an omniscient, super intelligent feature. And I agree that it's frustrating that many members seems to think so. It's heavily flawed due to the fact that it doesn't seem to always compile the CORRECT list of what you're asking it to search for in the first place. Many times during a search I have to spend a good 30-45 min to get CLOSE to what I'm looking for, and honestly, it gets old FAST.
So I can understand where these guys are coming from, and I have to agree with them......STFF is not always the solution. People just have to be willing and courteous enough to help out in this community. So WHAT if a question has been asked 1 million times? Help out a fellow enthusiast and member!
08-13-2006, 01:06 PM
#29
Rick,
I can't disagree with anything you've written. Both of us have seen how this forum has evolved over the last 5 years.
I do want to address one item you wrote in specific...
Moderators are chosen from members 1) with a continuous interest and presence in the forum, and 2) interest and willingness to help other members.
HOWEVER, a member's duty as a moderator is primarily to monitor and enforce the Terms of Use (TOU), and monitor the usability of the forums. I don't think one should expect a moderator to be "more resourceful or helpful" than others, because his view of helpfulness is sometimes at odds with his view of the usability of the forums.
For instance, in order for the word search function to be the most "usable," it presumes there are a reasonable number of threads on a particular subject, such that when searched for that subject, one will not have to wade through 400 threads on the same subject. As the number of threads in the forum grow over time (which is natural), searching can become cumbersome, as TA-9FF observes. But is it because the search function is flawed, or because growing number of similar threads makes the search function difficult to use?
Opinions vary on this, based on whether you walk a mile in a new member's shoes, or walk a mile in a moderator's shoes. I hope this makes sense, as I truly attempt to see it from both sides.
Personally, I would like to see the staff avoid telling members to STFF except in extreme cases... Let the membership make the STFF comments, instead. However, in spite of my efforts to suggest this, I can only suggest it... I cannot personally order fellow moderators to adopt a particular style. I HAVE asked the other moderators to read this thread, and give it some thought.
I can't disagree with anything you've written. Both of us have seen how this forum has evolved over the last 5 years.
I do want to address one item you wrote in specific...
Originally Posted by Rick
There is more of an antagonistic and repelling aire now. Humor aside, this now seems to be accepted policy. Should this be permitted - particularly from a moderator who should be more resourceful or helpful than others? Probably not..
HOWEVER, a member's duty as a moderator is primarily to monitor and enforce the Terms of Use (TOU), and monitor the usability of the forums. I don't think one should expect a moderator to be "more resourceful or helpful" than others, because his view of helpfulness is sometimes at odds with his view of the usability of the forums.
For instance, in order for the word search function to be the most "usable," it presumes there are a reasonable number of threads on a particular subject, such that when searched for that subject, one will not have to wade through 400 threads on the same subject. As the number of threads in the forum grow over time (which is natural), searching can become cumbersome, as TA-9FF observes. But is it because the search function is flawed, or because growing number of similar threads makes the search function difficult to use?
Opinions vary on this, based on whether you walk a mile in a new member's shoes, or walk a mile in a moderator's shoes. I hope this makes sense, as I truly attempt to see it from both sides.
Personally, I would like to see the staff avoid telling members to STFF except in extreme cases... Let the membership make the STFF comments, instead. However, in spite of my efforts to suggest this, I can only suggest it... I cannot personally order fellow moderators to adopt a particular style. I HAVE asked the other moderators to read this thread, and give it some thought.
08-13-2006, 01:50 PM
#30
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2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
What the heck is STFF, anyhow? I searched. I found:
STFF Safeguard Tactical Field Force
STFF South Texas Funding Forum
STFF Superficial Temporal Fascial Flap
STFF Safeguard Tactical Field Force
STFF South Texas Funding Forum
STFF Superficial Temporal Fascial Flap
08-13-2006, 04:04 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by anthuny85
lmao..search the forum first = STFF. not STFF= Superficial Temporal Fascial Flap 
08-13-2006, 04:23 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by !!!!!NJ Drive
I always thought that it meant: Seach The ****ing Fourums
08-13-2006, 05:09 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Rick
oh, and here's a link to an innocuous site that will make you feel stupid and not be of any help."...
Good Stuff
Say, where's the guy that greets everyone with this?
08-14-2006, 07:08 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Rick
In the evolution of this forum, I've seen it "change" from a very helpful and resourceful community to something well, less. There is more of an antagonistic and repelling aire now. Humor aside, this now seems to be accepted policy. Should this be permitted - particularly from a moderator who should be more resourceful or helpful than others? Probably not.
I've said this before, and at the risk of redundancy, I'll say it again - "Change" is not always good, but it does become an opportunity to grow in a more positive direction.
While the community at large may have more numbers than say...another MB forum...it's not about competition. If you have a new member that only posts twice and get's fed up with curt responses, was that person really a member at all? You have to agree that it's most important to keep the newest members involved without alienating them.
When a new member joins and has a question, it's usually simple and can be answered quite easily. Wouldn't it be more a positive building block to assist these members with their questions or concerns, rather than slinging various put downs or leaving them out in the cold? After the initial bevy of suggestions and assistance, they can then be easily guided to the search instructions. After all, it's about customer service...and these members are your customers.
I've said this before, and at the risk of redundancy, I'll say it again - "Change" is not always good, but it does become an opportunity to grow in a more positive direction.
While the community at large may have more numbers than say...another MB forum...it's not about competition. If you have a new member that only posts twice and get's fed up with curt responses, was that person really a member at all? You have to agree that it's most important to keep the newest members involved without alienating them.
When a new member joins and has a question, it's usually simple and can be answered quite easily. Wouldn't it be more a positive building block to assist these members with their questions or concerns, rather than slinging various put downs or leaving them out in the cold? After the initial bevy of suggestions and assistance, they can then be easily guided to the search instructions. After all, it's about customer service...and these members are your customers.
Its been discussed before. As MB-BOB said, moderators are here to enforce the TOU, not to provide customer service to the sponsors, thus if they alienate a few potential customers there's no feedback mechanism in place to allow the sponsors to see if they are getting value for their $$$ and thus have an impact upon how this forum is moderated.
The search mechanism on this site is not ideal due to the volume of posts, especially the posts that ask then get "STF" answers. I'd rather see these threads deleted, since they make the search mechanism hard to use, and contribute to the very problem they often criticize.
Moreso, all the pics were purged from MBWorld a few years ago, so some questions begged to be asked again since the info is nolonger available.
Additionally, english is a problem yet not the one described. With all the different culture posting, many of us use different terms for the same part or problem, and that makes searching even more frustrating.
This forum has "evolved" into something, well, less - I agree.
08-14-2006, 08:40 PM
#37
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Midnight Blue 2004.5 C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan. 2002 w210 E320, 2009 w211 E350 Sport
It's good to hear all your input on the direction this forum has taken. I've been doing my best to clean up A LOT of the threads that are inter-related (i.e. merging/deleting), in order to allow the search function to actually be functional again.
Hopefully, that will help somewhat. Stay patient and hopefully over the next few months, this particular forum will be a pleasant place for everybody again. If anybody has suggestions on how to improve the functionality and flow of the w203 forums, please feel free to pm me and I'll definitely take into consideration all your suggestions.
For those of you who are new and trying to learn all the ins and outs of what's available for this car, I'll do my best to make information readily available so that you can bring back old threads to discuss (which is always helpful for other "new" w203 owners).
That being said, let's take this on more of a positive spin and if anybody has some constructive recommendations, I'm more than happy to read them and give my input on whether or not they will work for the forum on the whole.
Hopefully, that will help somewhat. Stay patient and hopefully over the next few months, this particular forum will be a pleasant place for everybody again. If anybody has suggestions on how to improve the functionality and flow of the w203 forums, please feel free to pm me and I'll definitely take into consideration all your suggestions.
For those of you who are new and trying to learn all the ins and outs of what's available for this car, I'll do my best to make information readily available so that you can bring back old threads to discuss (which is always helpful for other "new" w203 owners).
That being said, let's take this on more of a positive spin and if anybody has some constructive recommendations, I'm more than happy to read them and give my input on whether or not they will work for the forum on the whole.
08-15-2006, 12:09 AM
#38
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2015 E550 Coupe, 2012 E350 4matic Sedan, 2016 fully blown out custom camaro 2SS
Wow,
If I may take a moment and thank everyone who participated in this discussion (Thank You!), Ive read and re-read all comments and find valid points from all concern, I'm encouraged by the responds from Mr. Bob and Drex as well as the points made by Rick
, I'll make no point's here as they've already been discussed so again I thank you all.
Ps.> Maybe just one, (Sorry) at the end of the day it's all about what did you take from your visit to this site to which will determine how soon if ever you return (It's about choices), for the Mod's who infact performed great customer service here and you can call it what you want but that's what it is, I say to you THANK YOU for a job well done you have my respect !!!!!!!!
Regards Rob
If I may take a moment and thank everyone who participated in this discussion (Thank You!), Ive read and re-read all comments and find valid points from all concern, I'm encouraged by the responds from Mr. Bob and Drex as well as the points made by Rick
, I'll make no point's here as they've already been discussed so again I thank you all.Ps.> Maybe just one, (Sorry) at the end of the day it's all about what did you take from your visit to this site to which will determine how soon if ever you return (It's about choices), for the Mod's who infact performed great customer service here and you can call it what you want but that's what it is, I say to you THANK YOU for a job well done you have my respect !!!!!!!!
Regards Rob
08-15-2006, 12:39 AM
#39
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white and whiter
I'll have to agree that the search function isn't always helpful because it exclude a lot of words for being too "general/broad" and majority of time when new membor signed up and using the search feature all they know are the "general/broad" terms for search which will ultimately end up with posting a thread asking the question instead. However other than that most of the answer can be found with about 20min of reading the threads you found.
This is for all new members: Please don't post a new thread unless you really can't find any related thread that you can ask questions on. Always try to ask in existing threads before asking in a new thread.
This is for all moderators: We all know it's not that easy to organize everything within the forum, but please keep away from stating "STFF" unless you can point out some keywords that are helpful to the newbie for searching. This is specially to certain moderator that I think everyone knows who he is.
For older members: Please do not instigate flame wars. If you don't want to help the new member there's always silence that works. There are others that will always respond to new/old questions with helpful informations. There are few things if you decide to post. 1. give him some keywords to search if you are too lazy to explain the whole thing. 2. give him full information or 3. send him to older member that you may think that knows the answer and willing to help.
However the biggest problem is still that one moderator who's always the first or second to respond to new threads with "STFF" response which gives people a negative vibe, and MANY of the recent threads end on a sour note because of his response.
that's my .02
btw, I'm also member on e46 and bimmerforum for quite a while. There are certainly 10x more member than we have on here. New questions even the repeated questions are always responded by different people and with more aftermarket support there are a lot more solutions to a single question.
This is for all new members: Please don't post a new thread unless you really can't find any related thread that you can ask questions on. Always try to ask in existing threads before asking in a new thread.
This is for all moderators: We all know it's not that easy to organize everything within the forum, but please keep away from stating "STFF" unless you can point out some keywords that are helpful to the newbie for searching. This is specially to certain moderator that I think everyone knows who he is.
For older members: Please do not instigate flame wars. If you don't want to help the new member there's always silence that works. There are others that will always respond to new/old questions with helpful informations. There are few things if you decide to post. 1. give him some keywords to search if you are too lazy to explain the whole thing. 2. give him full information or 3. send him to older member that you may think that knows the answer and willing to help.
However the biggest problem is still that one moderator who's always the first or second to respond to new threads with "STFF" response which gives people a negative vibe, and MANY of the recent threads end on a sour note because of his response.
that's my .02
btw, I'm also member on e46 and bimmerforum for quite a while. There are certainly 10x more member than we have on here. New questions even the repeated questions are always responded by different people and with more aftermarket support there are a lot more solutions to a single question.
Last edited by FrankW; 08-15-2006 at 12:45 AM.
08-15-2006, 12:54 AM
#40
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way back in 2001 when the C was fairly "new", ived never seen nor know what "STFF" means...
when a member posts a question, its best that we give them a short answer then refer them to the appropriate thread, rather than type STFF alone. its really frustrating for someone posting a question in a forum and only gets STFF as a reply. a short answer would at least be a little helpful as prelim info.
besides, its just but normal for questions to replicate each other as time goes by coz over the model span of the car, owners come and go, so obviously, the new ones would most likely ask the same questions as those who owned the car earlier. its like teaching in school....students ask the same question over and over again, and the teacher never tells them to STFF. right?
when a member posts a question, its best that we give them a short answer then refer them to the appropriate thread, rather than type STFF alone. its really frustrating for someone posting a question in a forum and only gets STFF as a reply. a short answer would at least be a little helpful as prelim info.
besides, its just but normal for questions to replicate each other as time goes by coz over the model span of the car, owners come and go, so obviously, the new ones would most likely ask the same questions as those who owned the car earlier. its like teaching in school....students ask the same question over and over again, and the teacher never tells them to STFF. right?
08-15-2006, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by FIXEDupW209
Because most of those things change each year.
a forum that i like a lot is team-integra.net. its a very helpful forum with all the infomation you can ask for and more. wat i like most is the article section where theres the differences in every year as well as more than 100 diy projects. if theres a hard time understanding me take a visit and you'll see what i mean
08-15-2006, 09:10 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by FrankW
However the biggest problem is still that one moderator who's always the first or second to respond to new threads with "STFF" response which gives people a negative vibe, and MANY of the recent threads end on a sour note because of his response.
Drex has done a great job so far, nice to see some new blood, perhaps that's all this forum needs, some new moderators to match the new members, since all these topics have gotten old to the current moderators by now.
08-15-2006, 09:14 AM
#43
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Originally Posted by Tangerine
yes i understand that it will change each year but maybe start with the 01-06 and update as newer model info are avaliable??
a forum that i like a lot is team-integra.net. its a very helpful forum with all the infomation you can ask for and more. wat i like most is the article section where theres the differences in every year as well as more than 100 diy projects. if theres a hard time understanding me take a visit and you'll see what i mean
a forum that i like a lot is team-integra.net. its a very helpful forum with all the infomation you can ask for and more. wat i like most is the article section where theres the differences in every year as well as more than 100 diy projects. if theres a hard time understanding me take a visit and you'll see what i mean
Other forums I visit have sub-topics under the main topic, thus the W203 forum could have sub-topics for technical/DIY/pics/... and that would make searching a lot easier and the forum less cluttered.
This might be a better idea to add to the "Comments" section rather than the W203 section.
08-15-2006, 11:22 AM
#45
Super Moderator Alumni
Originally Posted by Brunelleschi
This topic has been beaten to deat, and if your lazy butt would have STFF you would have known that and not started this thread! 
This is a good example of the negativity that people on this fourm are frustrated with. Criticism can be constructive. Let's keep utilizing this thread to improve this site.
Carry on....
08-15-2006, 11:26 AM
#46
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Moderator jerks?
I think so. I had a good thread going and to my suprise I log in today and it is closed. Just because it has been discussed before? What the hell? Just because it doesnt faal into the "interesting" column for you doesnt mean it wont be for others. I have never seen this at any other site. What my freind said just may be true......About ten minutes after you own a Mercedes you instantly turn into a *******. My 2 cents.
Lighten up moderators, you dont like the thread, skip it. Jerks.
Lighten up moderators, you dont like the thread, skip it. Jerks.
08-15-2006, 11:36 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by C230SportsCoupe
There is a forum with this type of division of information about the C-class, MBKlasse.com, sections divided into topics, even a DIY topic.
Other forums I visit have sub-topics under the main topic, thus the W203 forum could have sub-topics for technical/DIY/pics/... and that would make searching a lot easier and the forum less cluttered.
This might be a better idea to add to the "Comments" section rather than the W203 section.
Other forums I visit have sub-topics under the main topic, thus the W203 forum could have sub-topics for technical/DIY/pics/... and that would make searching a lot easier and the forum less cluttered.
This might be a better idea to add to the "Comments" section rather than the W203 section.
FWIW, I always try to answer a redundant question when I can add something usefully product-specific. I don't mind at all. However, this is mainly W210-related since that is what I have the most experience with.
I'll give an example: A new thread asking about K&N air filters. Although one can search and find 100 old threads on the topic, there may be new information that can be added with additional personal experience. I may have said I didn't screw up my MAF by adding a K&N last year, but the experience may be different this year, so I think it's worth answering whenever it comes up.
just my 2 cents.
08-15-2006, 11:39 AM
#48
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did u ever think?
That information changes daily! Prices, where to find an item, new experiences, etc. Just because it is talked about already doesnt mean that it is the most up to date accurate info.
Kinda peeved..........can u tell?
Kinda peeved..........can u tell?
08-15-2006, 11:42 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by ScottW911
Oh, crap. And it just seemed like we were headed in such a good direction with this thread.
This is a good example of the negativity that people on this fourm are frustrated with. Criticism can be constructive. Let's keep utilizing this thread to improve this site.
Carry on....
This is a good example of the negativity that people on this fourm are frustrated with. Criticism can be constructive. Let's keep utilizing this thread to improve this site.
Carry on....
08-15-2006, 11:46 AM
#50
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well well well
The BIG BROTHER MODERATORS will soon shut you down, watch out. This site is for searching only!!!! NO NEW POSTS OR THE MODERATORS WILL GET MAD!!!! They know everything and have documented everything about any MB car made. They have even tapped into the MB database and found all specs and problems for the future cars not even made yet!!! Dont mess with these guys.......they are the real deal.
This site is a farce for posts.
This site is a farce for posts.
