Hello all, I have a stupid question on how to Buff Scratches out. I have a Buffer/Polisher and was wondering whats best to use in trying to get get surface scratches out, as in Products or Techniques

 

What kind off buffer polish (orbital, high speed)? It makes a difference. Generally orbital polishers are good for applying and removing wax, not really a polishing out scratched or swirls. To do that you need to generate enough heat to soften the paint and that's why a high speed buffer is best. I use a Makita 7" Polisher and it's served me well for many years. I think they sell for about $150.

If you are a beginner, only use foam pads. Wool pads are best left to a professional. The larger diameter of the pad, the hotter the paint gets, the faster you can work, the more damage you can cause. For that reason I use the smallest/thickest I can get which is a 6" pad that is glued to the arbor. I don't like velcro pads because they seem to vibrate too much since you can't get them centered perfectly. Use the slowest speed which is usually around 1,500 rpm. Pads come in various coursnesses. Get a medium cut pad to remove swirls and a light cut pad to remove polishing marks left by the medium pad. If you're car is lightly swirled a light cut pad is all you need.

Then you need polishing compounds. What I find best is a oil based polish with a high clay content that's creamy and thick. Polishes also come in different couseness. If mild cutting polish that is designed to remove light scratches and swirls with the medium cut pad. Use a light polish with the light cut pad.

Now here's the technique I use regardless of which polish/pad you need. Wash you car with dish soap to get rid of all wax and dirt, scrub hard as a small amount of dirt may cause a mess. The put a 1" diamter blob of polish on the center of the pad. Press it against the car and turn the polisher on. Keep the pad moving at all times flat against the metal and do an area about 1/4 the size of the hood and keep going back and forth across this area overlapping strokes in the shape of a "W" until the polish is consumed. You want to move in a slow steady pace to let the paint heat up but not stand in one place and burn it (kinda like ironing clothes). After you are done with the whole car wash it well to get rid of the polish dust and residue. If you started with the medium cut pad, start the whole process over again with the light cut pad.

Practice on an older car until you get the feel of it. I recomend putting wax on by hand even though some people use an orbital to do it. I find it doesn't save me time and by then you are tired of working a 10 pound machine anyway.

Some extra tips; Cover sharp edges with masking tape to avoid burning the edges (or be extra careful around these areas), Cover wheels/tire with newspaper to avoid geting polish spray all over them, Work only in the shade, Wash car thoroughly between each step, Always clean your pads thoroughly before using, Use microfiber towels to wash, wax, dry car.

I buy my supplied from Malco (http://www.malcopro.com/auto.htm). They cater to professionals but ask for a local rep and you can buy direct from them. It's great stuff and the prices are reasonable. I typically pay $5 for an 8 oz bottle that lasts a long time. The rep will also recommend what product to use. Their carpet cleaner is great, the window cleaner is so-so. I also used 3M products and they are OK too, just pricey and not as good as Malco.

I use Klasse All-In-One was available at MB dealers. It works great and lasts months. Many people also are happy with Zaino. Stay away from cheap off the shelf products as they don't last and don't shine the way the synthetics like Klasse and Zaino do.

 

what a seconed buell?????

i thought u have the dealer wash your car?

isent that why u bought this car?

maybe u really do love your C230 and u did not just buy it for the free dounuts. :p

 

My daughter's Mustang is under a prepaid contract with the Ford dealer to do buffing/wax every 6 months for 3 years and they do a terrific job. My Coupe got a free buffing as a first anniversary thing, I don't think they will do it again. Beside, it's needs buffing 3-4 times a year because it's black. My wife car is silver but I do buff it about once a year or whenever a neighbord buys a spray gun and decides to finish furniture 10 feet from her car on a windy day. I learned buffing because I used to have show cars and paying someone to do it right before a show was expensive and their work wasn't consistant. I've developed my techneque and products over the last 10 years. I think I'm as good or better than many professionals. I had a Corvette that the dealer gave me a free detailing on for screwing up an invoice, the detailers were surprised how shiny the car was and proceeded to make it duller. I just like my cars shinier than most people. I also like my tires duller than most but the wash is free, can't complain.

 

Buell, when it comes to detailing you definately know your stuff. No doubt about it. But do you think it's really safe to recco a high speed buffer to a newbie? You can do so much damage to your clear with just the slightest error.

I have never used a rotary in my life, and I honestly don't know if I ever will. I have a porter cable polisher (7424) and I personally love it. I removed 95% of the swirls on my 6 year old car with a foam cutting pad and multiple apps of 3M finesse It polish. I probably could have done the same job with a rotary in 5 minutes that I did in 5 hours with my PC. BUT, the PC is fool proof.

For you, a rotary is a walk in the park. For others, it may not be so easy.

If the scratches he is refering to can be felt with a fingernail, wouldn't you recco wetsanding as a better soution?

David.

 

The trick with making a high speed buffer full proof is to use the correct products. The reason I recommend and personally use a 6" foam pad that is thick is that 1) the thickness cushions and lessens the risk of too much pressure, 2) the small pad has curved edges that won't dig in and burn the paint, 3) the 6" edge is not spinning as fast as a professional 8"-9" pad. I can put all my weight on the pad and it won't burn the paint. I usually tell people not to put any more weight on it than the weight of the buffer, let the buffer do the work. The other reason I recommend Malco is that many of the reps will come to your house and bring you products and many will demonstrate how to do it if you ask, that's how I learned.

The reason I use a high speed buffer over an orbital is twofold, I can work a lot faster with a high speed buffer and I can remove deeper swirls and surface scratches with it. I tried orbitals, just not effective enough for me and too slow. Like I said before, the are great for applying and buffing off wax. They are ok to so-so for swirls. They are useless for scratches.

Another thing I do with my buffer that won't work with an orbital is I put a 10" unstiched buffing wheel and use that with rouge to work magic on plastic finishes like the polyester finish on pianos. Also you can get all sorts of buffing wheels in assortted shapes and sizes for doing metal polishing like aluminum wheels, engine parts, anything metal.

 

I have an Orbital buffer. So I guess just pressing hard will get rid of the swirl scratches?

 

I don't know what you guys are doing to your cars to get so many scratches. Car washes, I suppose. Its best to avoid scratches all together, but the only way to really do that is to wash your own car.

They washed my C at the dealer - I watched them do it. That was the first and last time. They subtley scratch the car because (1) its untrained labor washing the car and they don't care, and (2) they constantly reuse towels without cleaning them. Drop it on the ground and it picks up grit and pebbles? No problem - just pick it up and keep drying the car.

I too have detailed and showed cars, at the local and national level, with much success. I never "buff" a car with a power tool. When you do so, you are removing paint/clearcoat, its not particularly easy on the car or good for the longevity of the finish, particularly on seams and corners of sheetmetal.

Here's a recent pic of some very old (over 20 years) paint. Never been "buffed," and only handwashed by ME.



I am not saying that older cars can't sometimes benefit from a buffing - they can. But none of these Cs are that old, and they should not need it yet, IMO, unless something is going wrong.

 

It really depends on your color. Dark solid colors show swirls more than light or metalic colors. I hand washed cars using the gentelest wash I can and swirls do develop over time. Probably more from driving and dust hitting your car at high speeds. The dealer or car washes in general to hasten the process. Even hand washing my cars prior to the MB, I would have to buff twice a year to get a nice swirl free shine.

 

so even if i hand washed my car properly i would still get swirls?
(black )

 

Most definitely! And with a black finish they will be really noticable. Most swirls are caused by people using the one soap bucket. Everytime you wipe the surface of the car and then put the sponge back in the bucket you are accumulating all the grit and dirt in that bucket. That means everytime you go to the bucket to get more suds, you are also collecting dirt in your sponge which you then go a swipe all over your car. You should use three buckets...an excellent technique is decribed in the detailing forum. This thread will prob be moved there.

 

oic ok

so if i do that after i get my car cut polished then i shouldnt have problems with swirls for how long..?

 

As long as you use the technique described in the detailing forum and use heaps of suds...don't skimp on your car shampoo to make it last...and generally don't let any cloth touch your car unless it is a clean terrycloth or microfibre. For daily care, use something like Megiars Quick Detail to wipe dust off your car...you wouldn't believe how much black dust you accumulate after driving your car once just after washing.

You can take steps to reduce swirls but in reality they are unaviodable...for me anyway...I'm sure there are others that are real **** about this sort of thing.

 

arghhh..i didnt know how hard black is to take care of!

a cut polish around here is 200 canadian
i cant afford to do that all the time

and i don't trust myself with doing it myself

 

I'm not trying to start a flame, but here are my observations. I've got Capri Blue on my C240 which is very dark, almost as "bad" as black. I have had many cars, most of them GM. My first German car was a '99 Passat, and that's where I first saw problems with "new" water-based paints. The Passat was white so scratches were hard to see. But in the right light, I was shocked to see the actual level of swirl marks. I wash my cars every week w/o skimping on shampoo, and I only use 100% cotton terry towels. I've washed cars this way for about 30 years and never saw swirl marks until the Passat. The M-B is the same -- almost impossible not to get swirl marks even with proper washing techniques.

I'd almost defy anyone here to state that they've been able to wash their dark (or light) color MB and not get swirl marks. I don't think it's possible. That's the one thing about these cars, the paint looks beautiful, but even lightly touching it can cause a mark. It's the most disappointing thing I've found with my car. These statements are only my opinion. If you've been successful in avoiding swirls, please tell me how.

 

One year later, and NO new swirls have been introduced into my paint. And I'm very proud of this. It is possible. I use the modified 2 bucket method to wash my car. The original method involved using two buckets, one with soapy water, one with clean water.

The method I use now goes like this:

Step:

1. Fill up a bucket with quality automotive car wash soap.

2. Take a couple of sponges and a tire brush. Use one sponge to clean your rims, use one to clean your wheel wells, and use the tire brush to scrub your tires.

Wet each wheel and wheel well b4 washing with soap. Rinse each wheel and wheel well after scrubbing.

3. Empty the bucket and and rinse it out. Clean your sponges and wheel brush by blasting the hose at them. Squeeze the water out, ensure they are clean and store them until the next wash.

4. Rinse your entire car down with a nozzle on mist as opposed to full blast. Grab a second bucket and fill it and the first up with auto wash solution and water. Take two quality cotton wash mitts, placing the dedicated "above belt line" mitt in one bucket, and the dedicated "below belt line" mitt in another bucket. Start by dipping the "above belt line" mitt into the bucket and letting the mitt glide over the panel. Start from the top of the car doing all horizontal panels first, and work your way down switching mitts and buckets when you are cleaning below the belt line.

After cleaning each panel, rinse the mitt by blasting the hose at it while the mitt is on your hand. Take the mitt off and squeeze the water out of it. Put it back on, dip it into the bucket and continue with the next panel.

When either bucket gets below half full, fill it with more water. This will rejuvinate the suds.

Use more wash solution than usual. You'll need to if you are refilling the bucket with more water.

5. Once the car is washed, use a cali water blade to get 90% of the water off the car. After swiping it once clean the blade by wiping it off with a towel. This will ensure that if grit is caugt during a swipe, it will not get dragged across the rest of the car.

Once that is done, mop up the rest of the water with a cotton towel or mf towel. Try blotting the towel. If that isn't good enough, then dry by wiping in a back and fourth motion not circular.

6. Dry your windows and then door jambs last.

7. Clean your mitts by blasting water at them. Squeeze the water out and store them intil the next wash. Rinse out both buckets. You should notice that the water in both buckets is totally clean. My water is still clear. There is NO trace of dirt in it.

Dirt causes swirls. No dirt = no swirls. Use good towels to dry as well and you should have no swirls.

You should now have a shiny, and still swirl free finish.