petercrase

The latest issue of Car and Driver has the C320 finsihing 5th of 6 cars in their latest sedan comparo. BMW 330i finished first, Audi A4 3.0 CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission) second, Acura 3.2CL Type-S third, Infiniti G-35 fourth, MB C320 fifth, and VW Passat W-8 4Motion finished last.
Some positive comments about the C320 included "quick-thinking transmission, supple ride, sports-car brakes." Negative comments included "delinquent body motions, mushy throttle response, a window sticker from hell."
I have a coupe, I don't have a window sticker from hell or delinquent body motions, but I have noticed too much delay in the throttle response when trying to drive fast through twisty mountain roads.
I would say my coupe has a firm ride and sports car brakes.
For me the BMW was not roomy enough and too expensive compared to the MB C230 coupe.
I think I got a great car at a good price.

Mike T.

Yeah, the C 230 K seems to be awfully good value compared to the C 240, at least here in Canada. The engine is stronger, the car is far faster, the fuel economy potential if higher especially on the highway, the suspension is nicer, the body design is more sporty and...provocative....and all this for a sticker price that's $4000 CDN less than the C 240 Classic with its steel wheels/hubcaps.

Our 2002 Magma Red C 230 K cost about $23 K US with rain sensor and panorama roof. It seems to be a very good value for the $. A great car for a great price!

young

the mb wasn't even in the edmund's comparison. but it correlates w/ the car & driver article.

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/compa...9/article.html

Duffer

the the Coupe does not have a firm ride. It is supple, but at speed or just around corners, too many ups and downs and too much roll - that is why some owners are going to Kleemann springs and Eibach sway bars - which will be my first major mod before pulleys - I'll wait till a decent chip/pulley combo comes out - hopefully GIAC will come out with something that works well with one of these pulleys or maybe the chip alone will do the trick.

As to the comparo, it's all subjective, but I still think a well equipped C320 should be no more than 37k with leather, roof and fold down rear seat.

FrankW

the C320 does have the "window sticker from hell". A well equip C320 can cost up to $45k. A relatively equiped 330i is about $4k less.

viper

The Car and Driver comparison was poorly done. They did not even follow their own rating system. They said the MB had great brakes - it even had the shortest stopping distance of all the cars yet they gave it 8 and the BMW got 10. Then they said the transmission was really nice on the MB but on the BMW they said it was not so great. Yet they gave the BMW higher marks again. The BMW was also rated higher for ergonomics - even with those silly window switches mounted next to the transmission. This is not good ergonomics. I think they need some new reviewers at Car and Driver. People that know how to be objective when the facts are right in front of them. The BMW is a fine car but the MB deserved a much better rating than it received.

trench

A BMW is ranked first in a Car and Driver comparo? That never happens!



BT

mctwin2kman

That is because C&D has a hard-on for BMW. They state it themselves, I foget where but they always have the BMW win.

MB-BOB

Good observations, viper. For my part, I have two thoughts:

1) Well, at least the C320 made the list. The IS300 did not... with or without its new (for 2003) manual tranny.
2) Since when does the Acura 3.2CL Type S qualify as a "sedan?" I assume it's not a typo for the TL, which is a 4-door sedan. I don't intend to buy the rag to find out which it is.

My boss drives a 3.2TL Type S. Yes, the C320 costs $10K more, but when we go to lunch, the boss invariably asks to ride in my car.

Accord

Car and Driver gave the BMW 330i first place, what a shocker!

Car and Driver is among the most bias magazine on the news stands today.

Lynn

The IS300 had a new manual tranny for 2002. I drove the first one in St. Louis in August 2001. It was a close second on my list. If Tri-Star hadn't offered me the deal of buying what they had in stock and selling it back to them for $1500 less when the car I ordered arrived, I would be on the IS300 fora.

If I used Buellwinkle's criteria for buying a car I would have the IS300. Much better dealer provided goodies. Like a free buffet and ****tail hour monthly.

FrankW

not really, the 330 won because IT IS a better sport sedan compare to the C320. My last car was a 2000 328Ci, and it is a better sport sedan/coupe than the C320. The C320 is more of a sedan that lean towards luxury instead of sport.

young

you keep saying this... but to me, the central location is arguably better. the left hand is always on the wheel, while the right hand does all the other manipulations like shifting, messing w/ buttons, etc.

on the other hand, i find the touchshift of mb to be far superior ergonomically compared to bmw's craptronic, audi's tiptronic and jag's j gate.

i don't understand the criticism that one magazine is biased... as far as i can tell, in general, ALL the magazines seem to like the bmws better. are they all biased?

Goldeni245

i don't get this...why doesn't Mercedes-Benz just drop the 230K engine into the C-Class Sedan, it would be awesome!!!

tommy

Yes, it's a vast conspiracy to give better cars better rankings. The b@stards!

Cory @ Kleemann

Of course they are bias! What car magazine isn't?? Maybe the new car buyers guide from Consumer Reports. C/D has always put a higher value on performance/price ratio. Look at the last comparo against the Audi and Subaru WRX. The Audi won, but only by one point! Of course the WRX is a hell of a lot cheaper than the audi, but in all reality, what true enthusiast with $40 K is going to buy a subaru over an audi?? I personally have always loved the witty writing style of all C/D staff. and did I mention that the editor has a masters of Mechanical Engineering from MIT? When the end of the day comes, all magazines show thier personal opinions of the editors. It's pretty hard to get around that

tommy

Well, I'd think that a tuning company like you guys would want the buyer to buy the cheaper car, then add $15k in your products to make it beat the crap out of the more expensive car.
At some point, reality has to set in, and a "true enthusiast" would pick the Scooby for that exact reason. Can you imagine what kind of uber-STi you could make with $40k? You could even fix the headlights and make the interior somewhat-classy.

IMHO, the person who would pick the Audi either is a snob, or wants more luxury than the Scooby could offer, which is the opposite of a true enthusiast.

viper

Yeah I always say this because of one fact. On the four door sedan the door pulls in the rear doors have the window switches on them. But the front doors have little cover plates where the switches should be. Thats looks real dumb. If they can do it for the back doors they can do it for the front. When you pay that much for a car this just shouts cheapness. Besides it is not ergonomically consistent.

Cory @ Kleemann

The cheapest car Mercedes builds is the C230 sport coupe. There is not much in the way of mods to make a monsterous amount of power. However, the E55 is in excess of $73,000.00, and the KLEEMANN kompressor will produce 560 HP.

I guess that would make me a snob then. I would buy a german car over an asian one any day of the week. Why did you buy the german machine over the asian?

tommy

Cory, point me to something comparable to a ccoupe that's offered by a Japanese company, and I'll buy it. It has to have: nice sunroof, manny, seating for 4 real people, three doors, decent power, and a foldable rear seat for 20-30k. Other than a GTI, I didn't really find anything else that had all of that.

The Civic Type R is close, but not offered in US, and I didn't really want to go through a RSX Type S swap. I'd love to buy another Honda, but they've forgotten what made them popular in the 90s.

If I had $73k to buy a sportscar, it wouldn't be a Benz, though. Unless I could get that Brabus V8 stuffed into a ccoupe, and use a manny (not sure if the MB manny can handle the power).

Cory @ Kleemann

Tommy- my point being, why didn't you purchase the WRX over the benz. Obviously, your wants and needs are fulfilled with the WRX (except for three doors), and the WRX can be made into a very quick little car. I am with you though with the purchase of the C230 though. I would have bought it also. I'm just curious as to why the WRX wasn't a consideration.

tommy

Cory - I did give it some serious thought, especially the wagon, since you can't fold the rear seat on the sedan .

Couple of things held me up:
cheap (I mean Kia Rio!) fit/finish in interior, though in-dash cd changer is nice
afore-mentioned headlights - Pam Anderson's look more natural
sunroof is not available, and aftermarket is pretty much impossible; there is a crossbrace on the roof that goes where the roof would - you could do a sunroof, but it'd be tiny. I went back and forth with other members on i-club on this for weeks before it was agreed that it just wasn't worth it

Pluses were nice: factory short shift kit (working on getting one for ccoupe, though), and other STi parts that work and are warrantied if installed by dealer (expensive, but might be worth it for peace of mind); for $5k, it would beat pretty much any US Audi made; the Momo steering wheel alone was a huge benefit. It is a nice car; I've been to autoxes in my crx (a great car in its own right), and the WRXes hold their own.

It really came down mostly to the sunroof - I was very disappointed in that in the WRX; otherwise, it would have been a real contest between it and the ccoupe.

MBNewbii

I've had my C320 wagon for about four months and I have a couple observations:

1. BMW felt more solid and definitely had better handling. However 528 was a little underpowered for wagon.

2. Ergonomics better on BMW and Audi. Controls etc. Also, seats more comfortable.

3. Doors and certain aspects of 320 feel cheap - surprising in a 40K car.


If I had to do it again, I'd buy a bimmer. Audi would be my second choice.

Good news is if I'm really sick of the car, I can always get rid of it on "Swapalease.com) - $499.99 payments/12K a year is an easy sell.

MBNewbii

2002 C320 Wagon Brilliant Silver/Gray/C2

Cory @ Kleemann

Tommy-

Very good reasons! I totally agree that the subie has super cheap interior bits. VERY dissapointing. I'm with you on the sunroof as well. It's a must have if you ask me.

The Benz is just nicer overall- better build quality, better components, better options. Plus, with our over-boost kit, springs, and sway bars, it makes for a fun little rocket sled that even outhandles my old Porsche 944 with ease! (not many stock new cars will). I won't even talk about the sluggish performance Porsche THOUGHT people would appreciate.

young

that cover is for the side mirror controls. viper, i just don't think it's that big a deal that the window controls are in the center dash.