x15jq

part number 843901.

Its on their site www.supersprint.com under cl203


Is there a noticeable performance gain? Im sure its a royal pain to install a new header, but would it be worth it?

I just got a 2002 C230, and did an intake on it yesterday. Results were great when cold, but that metal pipe just conducts heat when its hot, made bad throttle response.

I plan on doing the asp pulley route, but should I break my car in all the way? I only got 184 on the odometer.

I would like to do the headers, but im not sure if the performance is worth it.

Buellwinkle

Doing a complete supersprint exhaust may get you a few HP but it will be very expensive cost per HP. My guess is that the complete exhaust is $1,500 and you may get 4-5 more hp. Does Supersprint have any dyno or performance numbers? Also those 4-5 HP will happen way high in the rev range and you may not feel it in your day to day driving. I was looking at doing the Supersprint cat back but more for sound than power.

The biggest annoyance I get out of the coupe is that you lose so much power after a few short full throttle runs because of the intercooler getting heat soaked. I'll let you know in a week or so how the Renntech intercooler works out but I expect it to perform not only better in the cool morning but be the same throughout the day. To me, that's the next best bang for the buck after the pulley and it's pretty much risk free as you are benefitting the engine by running cooler.

As for doing a pulley kit with low miles, it will take a month to get the pulley from ASP and then maybe a week or two until you get around to installing it. By then you'll have some more miles. I was ready to do a pulley as soon as I got my car but there wasn't any around at the time.

speedfrk

Buellwinkle,
How many HP are they predicting for the intercooler?

Buellwinkle

Randy did some dynos where he got about 10-15hp across the entire powerband. Add to that the 10hp you are now losing after a few quick runs to redline and the effective gain can be 25hp over what you have now. From what I understand they are showing about a 100F degree drop from inlet to outlet and 30% better flow. He said after a few runs to redline it's cool enough on the outlet side to put your hand on it, can't do that with the stock one. Of course the gain all depends on how hot it is and how hard you driving your car. On a cool drizzly day you'll still get a boost but maybe not as much. On a warm sunny day you should notice a big improvement. That's why it's tough to evaluate an intercooler just on quick dyno results, consistant top power is what I'm after.

Lynn

I would expect about 10 hp, maybe more, from the header. A complete exhaust including a high flow cat might get more than 15 hp. The stock exhaust manifold is said to be very restrictive. From the cat the exhaust is very efficient.

Buellwinkle

10-15hp, that I would like to see. If it's that big of a gain a) why don't they advertise this? b) why hasn't anyone done it?

levelr123g

as for randys intercooler, i drove his car in the fl heat for like 30 minutes and after we got back the outlet of the IC was extremely cool to the touch, compared to the inlet side which was blazing hot. i can verify that this did work.

mdp c230k

I would not be surprised at all if the headers gave at least 10hp on the top end. Most stock exhausts are not optimised for the top end, they are done for drivability in the low to mid range. Make sure you dont loose power where you use it more often just to get it on the high end.
Buellwinkle, the reason most people don't do headers is smog certifcation problems and installation difficulties.

trench

I think that the headers should have a pretty good hp increase. The stock manifold looks pretty restrictive to me. The headers should provice even more power for the pulley equipped cars - all that extra boost has to be exhausted somewhere. The only downside is that headers will run hotter than the stock exhaust, will probably make a better intercooler even more desirable with all of the extra underhood heat.

- BT

Buellwinkle

How much are the Supersprint headers and would you do only the headers without changing the rest of the exhaust and still get the performance increase?

Lynn

The rest of the exhaust system is really pretty good. At best, you might get 5 hp from a different muffler, but probably more like 2 or 3. I'm not sure how much you might get from a high flow cat, maybe 5. On the other hand, you might not be smog legal in CA with a high flow cat. I suppose it all depends on how your cat scans.



Sorry, somtimes I just can't help it.

mdp c230k

Quite easily. You are putting the same amount of gas molecules in a larger area with the header. This means less back pressure on the exhaust which gives you better scavenging (to a point). The area of the pipe increases with the square of its radius so a small increase in pipe size gets you a lot more area. The other gain is in the equal lenth of all the pipes to the larger colletor pipe creating a smoother flow of gases out of the engine.

trench

If I get the headers I will probably leave the rest of the exhaust stock. I'm not impressed with the way the exhaust manifold is designed - as mdp c230k explained, headers will do a much better job of extracting exhaust from the cylinders. However, I think the rest of the exhaust is OK and only minimal gains would be obtianed by replacing it.

- BT

mdp c230k

Yep, I agree 100%. In reality, the cats are the biggest flow restrictors so anything done after them is mostly for a change in the tone of the exhaust not power. That is why cat back systems don't post big hp gains. The pre-cat header will increase hp as would a larger freer flowing cat. If you got a better cat then, yes a larger cat back would give you a few hp.

DCXdynodog

Unless the manifold is the highest restriction in the system you will see no gain at all on a supercharged engine. Tuned headers help naturally aspirated engines due to the "tuning" of the timing of the pulses in the exhaust tract which causes a slight supercharging effect to filll the cylinder better. With a positive displacement superchager there is no need for tuning as the engine is being force fed all the time. (headers will help a turbocharged engine's response before the turbo is spooled up)

The only thing a supercharged engine knows is backpressure, reduce it and power goes up.

Buellwinkle

So what would you do to increase performance? Larger exhaust diameter, higher flow muffler/resonator?

DCXdynodog

Usually the cat is the worst restriction and you are correct, a catback sytem change would buy a little but probably 5 or less.

That manifold sure is ugly though, might want to change just for that

mdp c230k

Didn't I just say this?

trench

Considering that the exhaust manifold looks like a circa-1930s design, my guess is that it's probably pretty restrictive.

- BT

dswildfire

hey, nothing wrong with something from 1930's, especially if it's benz. Their 3.4L supercharged engine from those days made 314 hp

DCXdynodog

Yes, except you stated the header alone would help and that is wrong, unless the flow restriction from the cat is less than the flow restriction from the manifold, which it won't be.

In short: change the cat restriction enough, then the catback becomes an issue, then the manifold/header *may* become an issue.

mdp c230k

Actually, any decrease in manifold pressure should increase hp. A larger diameter manifold will decrease pressure some, not a lot. The stock manifold looks like a pea shooter, so it would benifit from a larger pipe. But at the end of the day it is the cat that is the biggest restriction. We should look into one of those high flow cats like the ones on a Corvette.

C230 Sport Coup

This is a major big time old thread, but I just recently got my 2nd major
engine mod fully sorted out today...got flanges welded onto the header, to replace the lame connecting piece that was included by Supersprint.
Still it was good enough to drive with till I could get to the muffler shop, but the leakage was killing the power and it was hella noisey.

So, I can say, that with the SS header, and ASP pulley,
Daaayyyymmm!
This thing is a beasty now.
Gave her a serious thrashing tonight in Bonny Doon,
which is a little out of the way place in Santa Cruz county, that has one of the best roads to go fast on around, Empire Grade. Watch out for the deer though.

Of course it's still not an M3, but damn fun to drive.
I believe the header is only rated at about a 10hp increase, but in
conjuction with Pulley and the used Remus exhaust I put on a while back,
my butt dyno says I picked up a good 20 hp.

I'm getting such oversteer, even with C32 bars.

I think maybe I'd like to fix that...
maybe a thicker rear bar?

Anyway, there was so much talk about the SS header, but not many people bought them.
Too bad. At one point it was being offered for like $650.
Not anymore.

cla 1000

So how many horses do you put down all together? Do you have a dyno sheet?

rtking

The C32 bars are thicker than stock and give you flatter, more neutral handling. If you think your oversteer is bad now, don't install thicker rear bars. That will only increase your oversteer.

I suggest either a lighter throttle foot to balance the chassis, staggered rims/tires to increase rear grip or a larger front bar to increase understeer.

Bob