Stuttering when speeding up
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
Stuttering when speeding up
I've had this problem since the beginning, but since it didn't crop up too often, and I wanted a chance to confirm by driving a friend's car, I didn't do anything until now. And now I'm pissed.
The car will stutter in one of three situations, all in both modes (S and C) of the automatic transmission. The first is starting to go on a hill; if you give it a little gas, as when you're moving up behind someone who's making a turn, it does it. If you're on the freeway and you have to slow from usual freeway speeds (60ish) to 30ish or below, then give it gas, it does it. When you slow to make a turn at about 15-20, then give it gas after the turn, it does it.
The best way to describe the sensation is when you're driving a manual and a) you're starting in first and you don't let off the clutch fast enough or you don't give it enough gas or b) you just drop in the clutch in 2nd or 3rd without applying any gas.
I'm somewhat irritated because I mentioned this to RAB at about 10k miles, and they did nothing. At about 30k miles, they said they "changed some software," which is probably just resetting it, because it did it much less frequently for awhile, and now it's back. The questions are:
1. Has anyone else had this problem?
2. Is this even a problem, or just an idiosyncrasy with these cars?
3. If you've had this problem, what was the solution (I have 10k miles to go, so any warranty work I'm going to do now.)
TIA.
The car will stutter in one of three situations, all in both modes (S and C) of the automatic transmission. The first is starting to go on a hill; if you give it a little gas, as when you're moving up behind someone who's making a turn, it does it. If you're on the freeway and you have to slow from usual freeway speeds (60ish) to 30ish or below, then give it gas, it does it. When you slow to make a turn at about 15-20, then give it gas after the turn, it does it.
The best way to describe the sensation is when you're driving a manual and a) you're starting in first and you don't let off the clutch fast enough or you don't give it enough gas or b) you just drop in the clutch in 2nd or 3rd without applying any gas.
I'm somewhat irritated because I mentioned this to RAB at about 10k miles, and they did nothing. At about 30k miles, they said they "changed some software," which is probably just resetting it, because it did it much less frequently for awhile, and now it's back. The questions are:
1. Has anyone else had this problem?
2. Is this even a problem, or just an idiosyncrasy with these cars?
3. If you've had this problem, what was the solution (I have 10k miles to go, so any warranty work I'm going to do now.)
TIA.
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: SF East Bay
"Double Stuff" SOLD | Nor*Cals "Pesky Audi"
if its under warranty, take it in. be sure and raise hell. as blake says "wave your arms [uncontrolably] and talk REALLY loud"
since your in the bay. stay away from Smythe/Beschoff in San Jose. As well as Mercedes of Pleasanton
Good luck
since your in the bay. stay away from Smythe/Beschoff in San Jose. As well as Mercedes of Pleasanton
Good luck
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
It's not quite throttle lag; it doesn't just lurch once because of the application of power, it stutters two or three times before continuing on as normal.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
I take it from the overwhelming silence of the community that either no one else has ever had this problem, or everyone has this problem sometimes and accepts it as part of the kit and caboodle.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,497
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From: Calgary, Alberta
2007 ML500
Most likely the transmission trying to downshift. I think it depends on your throttle and the gear you're in. When I coast through a corner and accelerate halfway into the turn the rpm is at about 2000 and the transmission is probably in a gear too high because the exhaust note is noticible deeper than ususal. After the throttle lag, the jerk (downshift?) comes, then the rpms roll up and the deeper exhaust tone dissapears. I find this only happens when I am driving slow. Everything works very nicely when I'm on the run.
Very nice!! I like!!
Very nice!! I like!!
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 8
From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
I read your thread and dismissed it. However, while grabbing a cup of joe, I related to how it feels to have an issue that no one has input on. Getting my car to 145k miles has been a work in progress, so let me see if I can provide input.
First thing is to get your codes checked out. Lets see if there is a DTC code recorded right now. Do you think this lag is similar to what the C32 owners have?
If you have no codes, then you will need the assistance of a DAS machine. This is a Mercedes specific reader that will read out any faults that were stored, but did not become codes. SO ask the dealer for the DAS info.
Now, after that, lets see where to go based on the codes. In addition, if you don't feel the dealer is purusing a fix, try another one.
E
First thing is to get your codes checked out. Lets see if there is a DTC code recorded right now. Do you think this lag is similar to what the C32 owners have?
If you have no codes, then you will need the assistance of a DAS machine. This is a Mercedes specific reader that will read out any faults that were stored, but did not become codes. SO ask the dealer for the DAS info.
Now, after that, lets see where to go based on the codes. In addition, if you don't feel the dealer is purusing a fix, try another one.
E
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Member
Joined: Jun 2006
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From: Charlotte, NC
02 C230 Coupe
I have experienced this but I accepted it as the kit and caboodle....I don't think that my experience with this is as dramatic or severe as you make it sound. I can feel what you describing as I drive, but it doesn't feel like it's a potential problem, I could see how it could possibly be natural for the car to respond this way.
-J
-J
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 271
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From: Cranston, Rhode Island
01' E Fifty Five
im from the w210 forum and I have this same problem and it is bad. This is not an issue that just come with the car. I have to take a left hand turn up a hill to get to my house and everytime i step on the gas while going to the hill the car hesitates and then jolts forward.
I also have problems like this in different areas. Does Mercedes just have herky jerky tranny's? this seems like a problem to me i'd loveto find a solution!
I also have problems like this in different areas. Does Mercedes just have herky jerky tranny's? this seems like a problem to me i'd loveto find a solution!
Newbie
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
2003 C230K coupe
I have the same experiences with my '03 C230 coupe. The dealer has repeatedly told me there are no apparent issues. I've resigned myself to chalk it up to the idiosyncratic nature of this model.
I guess the trade off annoying powertrain quirks vs. the intrinsic qualities of the MB ownership experience is worth it... for me at least =)
Yet, it does irritate me to no end that my old Toyota Corolla sport had an infinitely more stable powertrain.
I guess the trade off annoying powertrain quirks vs. the intrinsic qualities of the MB ownership experience is worth it... for me at least =)
Yet, it does irritate me to no end that my old Toyota Corolla sport had an infinitely more stable powertrain.
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
Update on this: after driving a 02, 03, and 04 coupe (other than mine; I have generous friends, and cousins 
), I'm sure that my car is the only one that does this, thus there is something wrong and it needs fixing, especially that I'm still under warranty. Not only do none of the others stutter, but their shifts in nearly all driving situations are far more smooth, whereas mine clunks into place. I had simply become accustomed to the sensation, but the absence of it with the other cars has made it far more apparent. I'm going to take it back to the place I bought it as opposed to RAB; though I doubt that will make a difference, maybe another dealer will be more responsive to my complaint.
), I'm sure that my car is the only one that does this, thus there is something wrong and it needs fixing, especially that I'm still under warranty. Not only do none of the others stutter, but their shifts in nearly all driving situations are far more smooth, whereas mine clunks into place. I had simply become accustomed to the sensation, but the absence of it with the other cars has made it far more apparent. I'm going to take it back to the place I bought it as opposed to RAB; though I doubt that will make a difference, maybe another dealer will be more responsive to my complaint.
Super Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 673
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
F10
could be a few things, i had this experience on my ricer:
1. plugged up fuel filter.
2. bad fuel fiuel pump
3. loose/bad spark/plug wires
btw, i haven't (i hope not) experienced this on my mb, just on my honda.
1. plugged up fuel filter.
2. bad fuel fiuel pump
3. loose/bad spark/plug wires
btw, i haven't (i hope not) experienced this on my mb, just on my honda.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 7,258
Likes: 168
From: So. Oregon Coast
C230 Sport Coup + 2006 W164 ML350 + 99 Ford Escort RIP
I get some sputtering occasionally at WOT.
I'm ordering an 02 sensor from Rockauto for $122, as it seems perhaps I am getting too much fuel dumping into the cat in my case.
I have a different engine so hard to say.
But you need to raise a fuss with the dealer if you're not getting action.
Write a letter to MBZ in NJ, and or ask for the name the regional tech rep, and go over the dealer's head.
Worked for me!!!
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
Update.
The fun part:
Unlike RAB, I actually felt like I was appreciated at Walnut Creek MB. Even though they couldn't fix my problem for me, I came away happy I went there. I'd recommend it for service, at least in regards to the way they treat you. Part of this treatment includes actually getting a MB loaner for once, despite having four different MBs of different classes serviced at RAB. On to the 2006 C230 review!
I like:
The lumbar support added to the seats is a nice addition. Power application is quite smooth at most throttle levels, which I attribute to a much more conservative gear selection bias present with the 7G transmission.
I don't like:
It may be the differences of torque between the I4 and the V6, but it just seems to take forever to get up to speed, unless I play with the gear selector or mash on the pedal. Also, despite doing a longer-than-my-usual freeway run (which customarily nets me about 31 mpg on the I4), I couldn't get the thing to give me better than 26 mpg. Blah. Also power steering is ramped up, making turning easier, but disconnecting a bit more from the road sensations.
The bad part:
They couldn't find anything major to fix, save for a leaking transmission seal, which they said is a problem, but not one they could attribute to the sensations I described. At this point, the only thing I can try is playing with the adaptive transmission, and reset it every so often. It could be that I'm just hitting a corner case with the programming involved, since it happens usually at low throttle applications. So the final word is: good since they fixed a leaking seal (could have been a problem later), bad that they can't fix this issue. I'm going to play with it and see what happens.
The fun part:
Unlike RAB, I actually felt like I was appreciated at Walnut Creek MB. Even though they couldn't fix my problem for me, I came away happy I went there. I'd recommend it for service, at least in regards to the way they treat you. Part of this treatment includes actually getting a MB loaner for once, despite having four different MBs of different classes serviced at RAB. On to the 2006 C230 review!
I like:
The lumbar support added to the seats is a nice addition. Power application is quite smooth at most throttle levels, which I attribute to a much more conservative gear selection bias present with the 7G transmission.
I don't like:
It may be the differences of torque between the I4 and the V6, but it just seems to take forever to get up to speed, unless I play with the gear selector or mash on the pedal. Also, despite doing a longer-than-my-usual freeway run (which customarily nets me about 31 mpg on the I4), I couldn't get the thing to give me better than 26 mpg. Blah. Also power steering is ramped up, making turning easier, but disconnecting a bit more from the road sensations.
The bad part:
They couldn't find anything major to fix, save for a leaking transmission seal, which they said is a problem, but not one they could attribute to the sensations I described. At this point, the only thing I can try is playing with the adaptive transmission, and reset it every so often. It could be that I'm just hitting a corner case with the programming involved, since it happens usually at low throttle applications. So the final word is: good since they fixed a leaking seal (could have been a problem later), bad that they can't fix this issue. I'm going to play with it and see what happens.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Australia
C200K Jul 2004
I hate Roundabouts
im from the w210 forum and I have this same problem and it is bad. This is not an issue that just come with the car. I have to take a left hand turn up a hill to get to my house and everytime i step on the gas while going to the hill the car hesitates and then jolts forward.
I also have problems like this in different areas. Does Mercedes just have herky jerky tranny's? this seems like a problem to me i'd loveto find a solution!
I also have problems like this in different areas. Does Mercedes just have herky jerky tranny's? this seems like a problem to me i'd loveto find a solution!
I might try the fuel filter as mine is still the original and have now reached 70K kms.
I drive a JUL 2004 C200K and hate slowing down because reaching 1500 - 2000 rpm and then trying to accelerate tends to cause this forward jolt. I guess because I have to make a 90° left turn the revs go down to 1500 - 2000 rpm.
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: Manchester, England.
CL203, W211
From my experience... I would check out a number of things...
1. Automatic Transmission Fluid. Is there enough in? Is there too much in? I've seen cars with not enough or too much fluid have difficulty changing up and down, also stuttering as you say.
2. Is there contamination/corrosion at the wires or on the plug of the electrical terminal going into the automatic gearbox?
3. Your fuel filter, when was this last changed?
4. Fuel Pump? Possibly faulty.
5. Injectors? Maybe try some injector cleaner (the kind you throw in you tank with the gas) could have some contamination in the fuel lines, a good brand of this stuff isn't too expensive and does magic for your injectors and other fuel parts (even the pump)
6. I would also say Air Mass Meter or MAF as you guys call them, but if this was faulty I am sure you would be likely to see a fault code stored and your engine warning light to be on.
1. Automatic Transmission Fluid. Is there enough in? Is there too much in? I've seen cars with not enough or too much fluid have difficulty changing up and down, also stuttering as you say.
2. Is there contamination/corrosion at the wires or on the plug of the electrical terminal going into the automatic gearbox?
3. Your fuel filter, when was this last changed?
4. Fuel Pump? Possibly faulty.
5. Injectors? Maybe try some injector cleaner (the kind you throw in you tank with the gas) could have some contamination in the fuel lines, a good brand of this stuff isn't too expensive and does magic for your injectors and other fuel parts (even the pump)
6. I would also say Air Mass Meter or MAF as you guys call them, but if this was faulty I am sure you would be likely to see a fault code stored and your engine warning light to be on.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,498
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From: San Diego, CA & San Jose, Costa Rica & Stuttgart, Germany
1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
or maybe a reset of the ECU might solve the trick.
That happened on my ML350. Took it in with those symptoms, made the SA and a Service Tech drive with me around the block once or twice.
They reset the ECU and never had that problem again.
Might work for you...
Carlos
Saprissa
That happened on my ML350. Took it in with those symptoms, made the SA and a Service Tech drive with me around the block once or twice.
They reset the ECU and never had that problem again.
Might work for you...
Carlos
Saprissa
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
Yes and no. A ECU reset and a throttle reset both make this problem go away for a time, but once the ECU relearns your throttle-light driving pattern, you're back in the hole.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,498
Likes: 4
From: San Diego, CA & San Jose, Costa Rica & Stuttgart, Germany
1959 220S / 1979 230 G / 2002 A210 AMG / 2003 C320 SC / 2004.5 C320 SS / 2005 ML350 SE / 2008 smart
so what do the techs say the problem is when you take them for a ride and it does this ?
aren't you covered under warranty? They can't just say it's normal and not do anything about it. If so... call MBUSA and ask for a regional Tech.
I would not leave the dealership until the problem was fixed. That's BS.
aren't you covered under warranty? They can't just say it's normal and not do anything about it. If so... call MBUSA and ask for a regional Tech.
I would not leave the dealership until the problem was fixed. That's BS.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 387
Likes: 4
From: Boston, MA
2010 E550 Coupe
Hey there...
Honestly, I know exactly the drive feeling you mean, and I am still experiencing now. Having said, my check engine light is on with an O2 sensor fault.
For what its worth, mine was NOT like this before the CEL - which I am dealing with myself (car not under warranty, etc).
Its not the sparks (in my case), I had them all changed a while back at MB. I also took my car in for the recent (february time?) campain / recall for the hose. That made no difference either.
I describe the feeling as putting my foot on the gas to accelarate, the car seems to pick up a little, but no-where near as much as I know it can / will momentarily. Then after a split second with my foot still down on the car, its like the car realises 'oh yeah, i can accelarate quicker than this', and just picks up. Its almost like a 'delay'. I tend to find the issue mostly in 4th gear, and liken it to being in a too high gear for the speed (although I'm not)...
My coupe is stick, with just over 37K for comparrison sake, engine is completely stock except a K&N air filter.
Perhaps thats similar to your experince...
Honestly, I know exactly the drive feeling you mean, and I am still experiencing now. Having said, my check engine light is on with an O2 sensor fault.
For what its worth, mine was NOT like this before the CEL - which I am dealing with myself (car not under warranty, etc).
Its not the sparks (in my case), I had them all changed a while back at MB. I also took my car in for the recent (february time?) campain / recall for the hose. That made no difference either.
I describe the feeling as putting my foot on the gas to accelarate, the car seems to pick up a little, but no-where near as much as I know it can / will momentarily. Then after a split second with my foot still down on the car, its like the car realises 'oh yeah, i can accelarate quicker than this', and just picks up. Its almost like a 'delay'. I tend to find the issue mostly in 4th gear, and liken it to being in a too high gear for the speed (although I'm not)...
My coupe is stick, with just over 37K for comparrison sake, engine is completely stock except a K&N air filter.
Perhaps thats similar to your experince...
Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 155
Likes: 1
From: Manchester, England.
CL203, W211
Hey there...
Honestly, I know exactly the drive feeling you mean, and I am still experiencing now. Having said, my check engine light is on with an O2 sensor fault.
For what its worth, mine was NOT like this before the CEL - which I am dealing with myself (car not under warranty, etc).
Its not the sparks (in my case), I had them all changed a while back at MB. I also took my car in for the recent (february time?) campain / recall for the hose. That made no difference either.
I describe the feeling as putting my foot on the gas to accelarate, the car seems to pick up a little, but no-where near as much as I know it can / will momentarily. Then after a split second with my foot still down on the car, its like the car realises 'oh yeah, i can accelarate quicker than this', and just picks up. Its almost like a 'delay'. I tend to find the issue mostly in 4th gear, and liken it to being in a too high gear for the speed (although I'm not)...
My coupe is stick, with just over 37K for comparrison sake, engine is completely stock except a K&N air filter.
Perhaps thats similar to your experince...
Honestly, I know exactly the drive feeling you mean, and I am still experiencing now. Having said, my check engine light is on with an O2 sensor fault.
For what its worth, mine was NOT like this before the CEL - which I am dealing with myself (car not under warranty, etc).
Its not the sparks (in my case), I had them all changed a while back at MB. I also took my car in for the recent (february time?) campain / recall for the hose. That made no difference either.
I describe the feeling as putting my foot on the gas to accelarate, the car seems to pick up a little, but no-where near as much as I know it can / will momentarily. Then after a split second with my foot still down on the car, its like the car realises 'oh yeah, i can accelarate quicker than this', and just picks up. Its almost like a 'delay'. I tend to find the issue mostly in 4th gear, and liken it to being in a too high gear for the speed (although I'm not)...
My coupe is stick, with just over 37K for comparrison sake, engine is completely stock except a K&N air filter.
Perhaps thats similar to your experince...
Your problem is your O2 sensor. Replace it and your car will be fine.
The car is getting the fuel/air trim wrong due to the faulty signal from the o2 sensor.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Australia
C200K Jul 2004
Yes and no. A ECU reset and a throttle reset both make this problem go away for a time, but once the ECU relearns your throttle-light driving pattern, you're back in the hole.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
Does anyone know what fuel filters for W203 are worth? I saw one on ebay for 145AUD.
Just out of curiosity does everyone fill up their car with premium unleaded or just the normal unleaded fuel?
Cheers
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Australia
C200K Jul 2004
Yes and no. A ECU reset and a throttle reset both make this problem go away for a time, but once the ECU relearns your throttle-light driving pattern, you're back in the hole.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
The fuel filter idea is a good one given that the car usually does this more severely on turns and uphill/downhill instances. I'll look into those possibilities these next few weeks and check back, though, considering I only have 56k miles and this has been going on since 20k miles (with a flush of the ATF due to a leaky seal at 40k), I don't think that's the culprit. Could be the fuel pump, but I'd have thought that would have thrown a code like "fuel mixture too lean" etc.
I recently reset the ECU and took the car on a long drive (4 hours) on the freeway doing an average of 100kms/hour and often did a kick in on the throttle (whilst overtaking).
Like you said jedcred, after the trip, the car drove well for about 500kms with no stuttering but it gradually started displaying the same symptoms once again increasing the more I drove it.
Have you tried a new fuel filter?
Is there a way to stop the ECU learning process?
I'll be taking the car for it's 75K service "A" in 2 months time so I guess i'll wait and see what error codes come up.
If anyone has any ideas or suggestions, please let me know.
Many Thanks
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 453
Likes: 3
From: Bay Area, CA
'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
Two successive fillups with some fuel cleaner additive seems to have made the problem go away, at least for the following two fillups, anyway. Still could be fuel filter, but I haven't gotten to that yet. Let's see how long it lasts.
Junior Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Australia
C200K Jul 2004
Cheers
