FrankW

the conv has flater trunk line...lol

a kidding aside, Do go check out the W209 under different lighting condition...it'll look much different from the picture.

Rick

Funny....I saw the new Honda commercial last night....it starts with a male voice speaking in German as it pans a shot of the roof line...

Even Honda is comparing their 1/2 a recycled Chevy Malibu sheetmetal to German styling.

Rick

oggle

Chevy Malibu and almost every other American car is butt ugly (except the Corvette, Viper, and some SUVs). Japanese cars are much better designed. But nothing beats a German car.

Jim Banville

Now THIS is BEAUTIFUL...
And only $34K on eBay

pocholin

You have to give credit to the japaneese for making a good loking car, that in many ways it resembles a great german car. One thing we don't know is how it is going to hold together with time, plastic pieces ratling inside, or engine reliability, suspension, etc. That is what separates this car from the CLK.

SoCal240/6

I couldn't agree more - those reliability issues are what separates a Honda from an MB.

With the MB, you know you are going to have a good chance of reliability problems, rattling interior pieces (sunroof parts, seats, etc.), engines dying on the highway, etc. With a Honda or Acura, those problems are almost non-existant - those are cars that routinely do 200,000 miles with just regular service. You made a good observation!

pocholin

Well, I was really going the other way......but you have a point too.

pocholin

I can see some car enthusiasts already re-badging their Accords

CLK-H Meaning CLK by Honda

FrankW

sure, they can go 200k miles with just regular service, but the question is that are they going to fell apart after 100k or 5 years. In the reliability, most japanese cars are reliable during their 3 yr 36k miles warranty, after that GOOD LUCK. With german, sure they have minor problems during the warranty period, but in the long run, german car will prevail with less problems.

CitronC230K_03

very true. plus you have to take into account that the more technology you have the more likely things might fail. in the long run you will have better resale value and good reliability with MB. just my $.02.

SoCal240/6

I disagree with all of that.

Hondas, etc. have better reliability, in the short term AND the long term, than MBs.

And, many Japanese cars, Hondas and Lexus in particular, maintain very good resale value - at least equal to and probably better than an MB.

CitronC230K_03

from forbes magazine: "Mercedes almost never gets credit for good design, and that boggles us to no end. The new C-Class is a splendid shrink-wrap of the latest S, and the newest CLK is as sharp as coupes come.

While rival BMW is going through an apparent identity crisis, with the latest 7 series prompting the rise of spiteful Web sites dedicated to spamming that company's head designer, Chris Bangle, Mercedes is suffering from no such pangs. Apparently Mercedes can seamlessly target a younger buyer without abandoning an older boomer core audience. Neat trick--one Cadillac isn't achieving with its knifelike new look."

heres a link for the entire article. its a review of the W211 but for those hardcore MB enthusiasts its a great article!

http://www.forbes.com/lifestyle/vehi..._1028feat.html

SoCal240/6

Well, Forbes does know what they are talking about.

From their November 19, 2001 edition:

"We'll have a closer look at some of the newest Benz models in a few weeks, but for the mean time, the biggest risk in our view is the cheapest Benz, the 2002 C230 Sports Coupe.

The first aspect of the risk is that this car is a hatchback, not a coupe, as Mercedes calls it. Sorry, but any car with a rear window canted at a 45-degree angle, and where the whole back opens up, is a hatch."

CitronC230K_03

SoCal, im not suprised and im not in denial. ive said before the car is a hatch, though MB doesnt call it such. therefore myself and nearly everyother C230 current or perspective owner or leasee (just wanna clarify that in case you mentioned it later) calls it what it has been named by the manufactuor. im not going to get into this debate again, it doesnt take long to do some kinda search and have it come up with results of 100's of threads with this exact subject (and countless times threads that have nothing to do with it but somehow you toss it in, i.e this thread) with you either as the front runner or somewhere in there. also from the sales figures from 2002 doesnt look like MB's risk is anything but profitable. fortuanately its friday so youll be out getting fresh air and seeing the wide world, as does everyone else, so we just may have the joy of returning to our computers finding threads without you replying.

SoCal240/6

You have a grip on reality that 95% of C230 owners unfortunately do not have.

I'll be at the California Speedway this weekend, so you 160 m.p.h. Hatchback owners are free to suspend reality with impunity until Monday.

BlackC230Coupe

i personally would not mind the new CLK if they were to re-design the rear alot. The c230 looks alot more mercedes like then the new CLK to me. I still prefer the w208 CLK better than the w209 CLK. The looks are just so much more muscular which i like.
I had a choice weather to wait a month to get the 03' CLK500 or to get a 02' CLK430 and just looking at the 430 in the showroom and pictures of the 500 made it a no brainer for me. I love every angle of my CLK, unlike the newer ones.

i have to post this pic of my CLK430 just to show how much i love it

Outland

Bull.

The domestic manufactures are currently in a slump, no doubt about it, but to say Japanese cars are across the board better looking, that's a joke.

The Accord(even in its new 'old Sentra' meets Altima sheetmetal) is the epitome of a boring looking car. Saturn's L300(a true German car beneath the badge-its an OPEL) is a flawed but much more enjoyable to look at car. Anything with a Subaru badge on it can cause blindness. Mistubishi's saving grace is the Eclipse. Nissan's Altima is nice looking, and so is the 350Z, but the rest is forgettable, and the Sentra and Xterra are downright offensive looking. And Acuras are so conservative in the styling dept its a wonder they aren't the official car of the Republican party. Toyota's Celica is an odd child in an otherwise ugly lineup including the Echo, Prius, Corrolla, Camry(went from dull to nasty), Avalon, etc,


Most German cars definately have the emotional impact that nearly every Japanese car lacks...but more domestics have more emotion than do the Japanese...even if you don't like the emotion they evoke in you

Outland

Um, yeah, Forbes is a reliable source for what? Self-satisfying smugness? Sorry, Forbes isn't even good in the finance world, much less as an automotive authority. The entire stupid argument was based on the failure of the 318 hatch, and the arrogance of the article author.

Funny, doesn't the RSX have a hatch? The Celica? Hatch there too! Integra...yeah, 'nother hatch. The last gen Corvette had a fricken hatch! Saturn makes both 3 door, and now 4 door 'Coupes' Isn't a 4 door, a Sedan? All these cars are considered "Coupes". Personally, when I think of hatchback, I think of VW Golf, Ford Focus, and the Honda Civic Hatch. The little two door wagon shape. The rest are coupes, just with a more usefull trunklid design....

My god, get over it. Its just a word.

CitronC230K_03

well the article, specifically the quote, i posted was just an opinion from another source regarding styling. i dont read forbes on a regular basis, dont subscribe to it, and so on. the article on the 03 E was sent me by my mom. i read it posted a link in the W211 forum, and saw the part about styling which reminding me of this thread. i like MB styling, i like the new CLK and the C sports coupe. i agree with your comment Outland about hatch's and RSX's and Corvette's and the such, but have to disagree on your opinion of the new CLK styling. i love it. though i do agree with your opinion on acura styling and being the official car of the republican party as well. i bet Bill O'Reiley drives an acura. again everyone is intitled to their own opinion. ive read many threads where people give definitions about hatchs or coupes. my opinion is that the C230 is referred to as a Sport's Coupe. i personally think a hatchback is a car with 2 or 4 doors with a combo lift trunk and rear window no matter on the degree angle of the trunk/window. so in my definaition the the C230 is a hatch, and again i dont refer to it as one because neither does MB. The manufactuor calls it a Sports Coupe, therefore I do. I dont even know technically what the true definition of a hatchback is, some say a hatch is a 2 door with a lift combo rear window and trunk. others says it doesnt have a trank but more like a golf or MINI, just nearly vertlcal, some say it can't be a 2 seater but a 2+2 and so on. im with most everyone else here and the arguement over hatch needs to die. when will this subject stop apprearing and why is it continuosly brought up everywhere you look. also SoCal will never get over it, i havent been a member for 2months and somehow ive noticed very clearly that SoCal is the instigator 90% if not more of the time on the 'hatch' issue.

oops, i notice you replied in response to SoCals article. still im not an avid reader of Forbes, just posting publications.

Mike T.

A 45 degree rear window? Steve F. had better get his clinometer or protractor out and look again - the C Hatchback - and the C Stepback/Notchback for that matter - do not have 45 degree rear windows! He's right, the C Sportcoupé does have a hatchback, thank god, not some tiny trunk lid hiding a massive King Ludwig-sized grotto like the Stepback/Notchback.

Kudos to the practical French for inventing the hatchback in 1961 (Renault 4) and to Mercedes-Benz for - albeit 40 years later - finally following the leader

Why would Forbes say "sorry" about the car having a hatch? I'd be sorry if it didn't have one. Blind ignorant snobbery at its best

About US car styling - it it truly dismal. Never been worse! The morbidly obese butts of most GM cars (Pontiacs in particular) is a disgrace, though it matches quite a few human morphologies. Almost all Chryslers are garish and hideous, and the new Viper is a huge disappointment after the still ugly - but cool - original. Ford is also bereft of good design, though I do like the - European-styled - Focus ZX.

Honestly, the Japanese are not much better. They've always been copycats. Toyota is mimicking Peugeot now, just after Peugeot had the "foresight" to stop using Pininfarina as its design house. Way to go, Toyota! Ecch. Subaru must have hired some 1960s acid-head casualties as designers, so bad-looking are their cars, without exception. Hondas are the Perry Como of car design - totally soporific. Bland but perhaps not ugly, in most cases. Mazda is Ford, so enough of that.

Outland

I think Ive been misquoted

I love the new CLK! I think the Acura CL is the dud...looks like a stretched out Accord coupe sketch after someone went thru and erased all the character lines with an eraser.

And I like the old CLK too! Ive always like the styling of M-B cars, but lately, I think they are on a real roll. The CL, SL, and the new E are all stunning designs. 'Bout the only MB feature that turns me off styling wise is the niether-nor headlights on the C-Class sedans....they can't seem to decide if they want to be ovals, amoebas, or trapezoids...the result is something of a compromise. I love the rest of C-sedan styling, its very sensual and sculpted.

The Forbes article seems to think BMW is having an identity crisis, oddly enough, at a time when its cars are at the top of their game. I find the latest 3 series sedan dull(but that's a carryover), yet the M Coupe appealling, the Z4 stunning, and the 7series is ghastly. I like what ive seen of the 1 series(not the interior on the show car thou) Its a matter of perspective.

At the same time, MB is going thru some dramatic changes as well. Depending on how you like the results, you can either view this as a Renaissance, or MB's own identity crisis. I prefer the former. And I think the C-Coupe is an important part of the change...MB really needs new, younger blood in its ranks. Lexus, BMW, and even Acura(years of breeding them on Hondas) own the young crowds attention.

Quote:

though i do agree with your opinion on acura styling and being the official car of the republican party as well

Honda is a company much like Subaru...superstar engineers, but third string stylists.

Quote:

i bet Bill O'Reiley drives an acura.

LOL!

Quote:

again everyone is intitled to their own opinion. ive read many threads where people give definitions about hatchs or coupes.

Does it really effin' matter? Where does this snobbery against hatchbacked cars come from? Did some idiot from Forbes, or AUTOMOBILE write this in previous articles, and those too thick to think about issues on their own just adopt it as law? I love the hatch design. Its so much more flexible, and boy is it easy cleaning the rear window

It should be about what YOU want, and what you like. These forumns should be about getting more enjoyment out of your car. A few seem to think they are a put down forumn for the socially challenged.

Quote:

im with most everyone else here and the arguement over hatch needs to die. when will this subject stop apprearing and why is it continuosly brought up everywhere you look. also SoCal will never get over it, i havent been a member for 2months and somehow ive noticed very clearly that SoCal is the instigator 90% if not more of the time on the 'hatch' issue.

Yeah, it needs to end. What is this guys problem?

Quote:

oops, i notice you replied in response to SoCals article. still im not an avid reader of Forbes

That's OK...we'll just pretend it didn't happen

Hey, did you get your car yet? I'm anxious to see some pics of that meen green macheen

Jim Banville

My personal opinion of current model cars in the mainstream US market that are somewhat within my financial reach, look the BEST, and are on my list of cars I'd actually spend my money on are ...
1- Corvette
2- any C class MB
3- BMW 3-series
4- VW Passat (I'd only have AWD)
5- Audi A4 (again, only if AWD)
6- G35
7- IS300
8- Lincoln LS
I'll never buy another FWD car, so most of the other cars on the market are OUT, even though I still wouldn't buy many of them because of their looks. I could add RSX & Celica near the bottom of my list if they were either RWD or AWD, and the Celica's case, its rear-end were redesigned (it reminds me of a 90's Olds Cutlass).

Mike T.

How about the ten worst? In no particular order:
1) Pontiac Aztek - I wish it was only a hallucination
2) Pontiac Sunbird - fat *** on a hideous bar of soap
3) Trans Am - rhinoplasty gone VERY wrong - hello Michael Jackson
4) Chevrolet Cavalier - almost as bad as the Pontiac version
5) Ford Thunderbird - disproportionate pastiche
6) Ford Mustang - a caricature - even the T Bird is better
7) Chysler PT Cruiser - ugly mutant Neon from the 1930s
8) Dodge Sebring convertible - Crap Forward
9) Cadillac Origami - what can you say? Dreadful...
10) Camaro - CAR called it the worst new car sold in the U.K.

oggle

You have your opinion I have mine. But I'd dare say if there was a vote that compared apples to apples and oranges to oranges, Japanese cars would come out ahead over domestic cars.

I was just at the auto show a few weeks ago. I sat in a Pontiac Grand Am. I have never in my life seen anything that hideous! The various interior buttons looked like pieces of lego that was made for people with really fat fingers. Take a look here:

http://www.pontiac.com/pontiacjsp/gr...sp?source=lnav

All the buttons stuck out like sore thumbs. There are Japanese cars with ugly interiors too, but nothing this bad.

The Accord to me isn't "inspiring", but it is ok in my book.