mdp c230k

If you think about it choosing to run your alternator at 20% overspeed is very wasteful in a couple ways. First, it will wear out at least 20% faster and it ain't cheap and the rest of the charging system will also be under increased strain. You are also wasting somewhere around 10hp because spinning it faster takes more energy from what could be on you rear wheels. Next, MB provides a large margin of safety in the amount of power a stock alternator at normal speed can deliver this allows you to run it even more slowly freeing up more power to the wheels without charging problems. The Kleemann underdrive pulley included in the kit gives access to this extra power without any real downside. The belt tensioner can easily make up the difference in length as it is small.

Buellwinkle

Even Kleemann admitted it provides less than 1 hp if any gain at all. So what you are saying is Renntech, Brabus, Vaeth, Wetteraur, H&S, Opera Design are all wrong? If that's true then it's a good thing ASP offers that option, maybe it can be used with these other kits.

mdp c230k

Not wrong, just could be righter. Yes the alternator can run faster and it will last for thousands of miles but it will not last as long as it would if it ran at normal speed, would it? You don't need to be a brain surgeon or pilot to figure that out. The other companies sell underdrive pullies and post a gain from them. Also remember that the faster you spin the more energy it takes, why waste it? You should also stop putting words in my mouth by making your almost always incorrect assumptions as it shows your lack of understanding on how things actually function. I got a kick out of you not knowing how to take off brake pads yet you claim to be be an expert on so many car related topics.LOL

Buellwinkle

Yes, in theory you are correct, also in theory, run the altenator 20% slower and you can have battery problems (I hope you have a cell phone because when the battery dies you won't be using TeleAid). Actually if you look at the Evosport website, for the BMW underdrive pulleys they make the kit with and without the alt pulley because of possible problems.

Don't compare the underdrive pulley kits to just one alternator pulley. The reason those kits produce the 10hp is because you are changing pulleys on high drain accessories like the water pump, power steering pump, A/C not the little altenator and you are replacing heavy steel pulleys with lightweight ones. The alternator just doesn't have that kind of drag, nothing like running an 11 lbs. factory pulley/ring.

As for the brakes, yes I've done brake jobs before, including way more complex drum setups. I just wasn't familiar with the Mercedes design and it was easier to ask than to figure it out myself.

mdp c230k

Most alternators can generate enough power at any engine speed above idle to run all normal accessories (not 1000 watt stereos). The higher the current draw the higher the resistance to turning on an alternator. My main concern is wearing the bearings out faster for no reason other than not putting on a properly sized pulley. You are much more likely to be in trouble with your alternator dying than not enough charge to keep your battery going at full power.

3pointedSTAR

Well...nothing much has happened during the past week.. just that I ordered an ASP pulley today as well

The most painful thing is the wait... hehehe

Cheers,

BlackC230Coupe

Well obviously all of you know I ordered the ASP pulley so I was preparing to have the fuel settings changed to stage 2, I called 3 of the dealers in my area and they said they would absolutely never do a thing like that. I argued so much I even go to speak to a tech in 2 different dealers and they both said no way. So thinking of what I can do now to have them set to stage 2 I called up renntech in my area and asked if they would be willing to do it, they said yes, but they will charge me labor (fine by me) but he asked if I am getting the renntech pulley and I was honest with him, I knew he would not like it so I said no its a custom made pulley, he said oh well I guess its not that bad if it has a harmonic damper, I said I do not think it does, he said that I should definitely not think of putting it on my car if it does not have a harmonic damper because it will cause to much vibration on the crankshaft (I think that’s what he said) and I will also eventually loose my bottom end??? I have no idea if this is true or not but I have no idea. He told me a custom pulley with a harmonic damper will be fine, he also said the only smart companies are brabus, renntech, carlsson and AMG and kleemann parts are almost as bad as evospots. He said why would Mercedes put a harmonic damper on the stock pulley if it was not needed? Would someone please tell me if a harmonic damper is necessary? Of course I know I was speaking to renntech and they will not say anything good about anything but their products, but since he said any pulley even a custom one would be fine if only it had a harmonic damper. He also said Mercedes Benz will void my warranty if they see the pulley does not have a harmonic damper.
Oh and he also said if I bring my car into renntech with a pulley without a harmonic damper they will refuse to adjust the fuel settings, of course I can go in there before I get the pulley put on and have him change it then since he has no idea who I am.

So please tell me how important it is to have a harmonic damper on this car? I am planning oh driving my car hard like usual when I get it, will it be ok? And will it be bad at full throttle? (Which I do a couple times a day).

Thanks

Buellwinkle

This subject has been beaten to death but to recap, nobody with a 2.3L motor on an SLK230, C230K sedan or C230K coupe in the last 5 years that Kleeman has made a solid crank pulley has ever had an engine failure, worldwide. Also note that Kleemann includes a solid pulley on their V6 supercharger kits that put out serious power, no pulley related failures there either. There are about 25 ASP pulleys in C230 coupes/sedans and SLK230s both new and old and no engine failures of any kind to report. So while in theory and in some cars, specially high performance inline 6's with long crankshafts like the Supra and BMWs experienced problems, it is not likely to happen to our beloved coupes. Even if it is determined 2-3 years down the line that people that have solid lightweight pulleys for 5-7 years experience problems you will have plenty of time to decide to pull it out. I drive my car hard, taken it on long trips, put crappy 91 octane gas in it and for the past 6,000 miles it's been great, no regrets.

So the question to ask the renntech mechanic, "show me one incident of a crank failure on a Mercedes with a solid crank pulley". It's easy to talk trash about a competitors product, just ask him to prove it, not on a BMW or Supra, but on a Benz. Also note that some Honda/Acuras don't use a damper including the NSX, why?, performance. Honda is not the type of company to compromise reliability over performance.

levelr123g

i have posted this b4 however it somehow became deleted, but here it goes again.
the dampner imo is to dampen the accesories. the reason i beleive this is because on motorcycles and watercraft the engine do not use any type of dampening on their cranks. motorcycles and watercraft see far higher rpms then a car engine would ever see and they never have any crank failures but they also do not use accesories. so is the dampner for the accesories or for the crank? think about it, the only engines that use dampeners are engines that run accesories.

20FHK02

The harmonic damper only works at its design frequency/RPM. At certain freqnencies it oscillates in phase with the vibration so this will even amplifies the vibration force. Besides, the engine RPM varies most of the time (unless you're crusing at constant speed for a long period), so the damper is not 100% effective.

The stock pulley is a heavy piece of steel, the induced vibration force could be somewhat significant so MB decided to put in the damper. A aftermarket alloy pulley is very light compared to the stock unit, so the vibration force is much lighter.

The engine has already been conservatively designed to handle misc. forces due to uncertainties, so, IMO, don't worry about the harmonic damper and enjoy the pullied ride!

BlackC230Coupe

He was actually telling me that he knows it will cause a problem and i asked if its ever happned and he said not that he has seen he just knows.
I will probally not talk to him about it anymore because the way it looks i will have to go to renntech to have the fuel settings changed since my dealer wont do it for me. And i dont want him to know who i was. Is there anything else i can say to make the dealer do it?

BTW- thanks buell for the comforting me on this issue, and to the others that replied. I think i would be lost without this fourm!

Lynn

While the car is in the service bay, just walk out to the car and slip the tech a twenty or offer a case of his favorite brew. Skip talking to the serivce advisor.

BlackC230Coupe

Not a bad idea, but how should i get my car even into the service bay? I would love to skip talking to the service advisor. With my luck as i was giving him the twenty he would probally yell bribery.

mdp c230k

BlackC230coupe, please believe the RennTech advise. The damper is critical in the proper lifespan and smoothness of the engine! It absorbs crankshaft twist and vibrations at a critical frequencies that can damage the bearings and break the crankshaft. Please read this link
http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonict...ech/dinan.html
It applies to our cars as well as supras. Just the idea that MB spends the huge amount of time and money to design the engine tells you that it is important for the damper to be there. They don't spend money for nothing.

The damper is most effective at frequencies centered around 320-400hz and all of their multiples. This is determined mainly by the length of the crankshaft and the stroke. Other frequencies (i.e. rpm) do not cause the crankshaft to vibrate significantly enough to need a damper at those freqs.

IMO, the damper IS critical in the longterm life and performance of the engine. Your crank my not break but your bearings will wear much more quickly causing further imbalance, increased oil use, and a loss of power because of this and uneven cylinder wear(bearings allowing con rods to move around). If you only have the car for 50K miles no big deal, otherwise it is. 6k miles is no test and besides the damage will have started and once bearings start to get loose the need to be replaced. Don't save money to spend ten times more later.

Lynn

I was thinking you could try that when the car was in for service or for warranty work.

Buellwinkle

mdp c230k, all I can say is show me one crankshaft failure on an MB, just one. You have 5 Mercedes related forums that I know of and search your little heart out, just one! If there are no failures then it's just theory, certainly a good sounding one but just a theory. I know you can show me lots of crankshaft failures on Supras and BMW, just show me one on an MB? All I can say is based on all the stories from Dinan and others I would never buy a BMW or Supra, just not well built motors and that's fact, not theory.

So stop the insanity and get your pulley ring kit already and lets race

BlackC230Coupe

Alot of things you said do make very good sense, and so does the things renntech told me.
I was bothered untill i saw the end of your post, i have a leased car and i have 2 years left on the lease already and i dont think i will even hit 50k miles when i even have the car, i am not planing on keeping the car more than 2 years anyway. And i doubt i will come close to 50k miles. So the thing is, will it be ok for driving hard untill 50k?

QC1

What about those of us who are going to keep the car for 3-4 years? Is it still safe without the damper?

Buellwinkle

There are plenty of C230K sedans and SLK230s that have had a solid alloy pulley for years, some with 80k miles. If there is a problem, those cars will fail years before anything happens to our cars and you'll know about it if you keep up with the forums. That's why I stick my head in the W202 and R170 forums on a regular basis. They are the proverbial canaries, whey they die it's time to pull out! No dead canaries yet!

mdp c230k

You might be fine as far as you're concerned, but the next guy to get your car will have at the very least worn bearings. I like to do things right because it makes things last longer and avoids collateral damage.

Buellwinkle, these engines are very stout and should last over 150k if left stock. I'm sure that if you too any of those engines with over 50k on them you would have advanced signs of bearing wear. It is always worse on the front bearings then gets less as you go back. If there was no need for a heavy pulley to damp the engine then they would use a light weight pulley to get the extra power to the wheels.

BlackC230Coupe

Ok guys i got another question, i called the dealers around me today and they will definitly not change the fuel settings, the manager and 1 of the tecs said its not even possible. so i aksed if he had an email address and i sent him the photo of kleemann shot for the stage 2 setting. I got and email back from him and here it is.

"We will not change these fuel settings without Mercedes-Benz factory
approval due to the fact that this will alter the emissions of the
vehicle.

Jody Shellenbarger
Shop Manager
Autohaus Mercedes-Benz"

So my question is what do i do? how else can i have the fuel settings changed? would it be that bad if i did not change them? because i dont know what to do.

Lynn

Take a trip to Jacksonville. I bet Brumos will change it.

Outland

Anybody got a line on the software MB uses?

Instead of slipping the guy a twenty, give him a hundred for a copy of that damn DAS software...I'm sure putting together an interface cable would be easy enough.

Lynn

Depending on what you get, the program costs between $14,000 and $25,000. That includes a special laptop with some proprietary hardware. I doubt any tech is going to steal the system for you for $100.

eason

Just have some questions in my head now. What if I put 94 octane fuel with "base" setting, will it do any good to me with the Pulley? Since higher octane and prevent knocking or pre-ignition.

Second questions is will "Colder" spark plugs prevent pre-ignition as well? Since colder spark plugs can decrease the temp. inside the engine; therefore, the change of pre-ignition will be a lot less. I know the stock plugs have a 6 heat range. I am planning to get some 7 or even 8 heat range plugs. Thx