Put a turbocharger on a C-Coupe?
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
It's time to bring this thread back up!
Does anyone know if anyone ever accomplished this, or done any serious research?
From searching it looks like Renntech made a 1 off for the SLK 2.3?
There is a kit now for the Mini Cooper.
Both Mercedes and VW are coming out with a set-up like this for 2010.
I am seriously thinking about trying it!
Thanks,
Dave
Does anyone know if anyone ever accomplished this, or done any serious research?
From searching it looks like Renntech made a 1 off for the SLK 2.3?
There is a kit now for the Mini Cooper.
Both Mercedes and VW are coming out with a set-up like this for 2010.
I am seriously thinking about trying it!
Thanks,
Dave
Is this really being done again? I mean turbos have come a long way haven't they? Especially with the "Ball Bearing" turbo I remember I once read somewhere that it kicks in before 1800 RPM which is pretty good. IMO
I remember reading somewhere about something similar that Nissan was doing or did something similar with turbos and superchargers. EDIT I remember now it was the old MR2s I think they called them "twincharging" but I was pretty sure Nissan did this as well.
The idea sounds great because turbo uses wasted power so have one start off and one recycle the energy and us it.
Also didnt Nissan try this out with their Twin Turbos?
Two turbos one low end and one high end? Anyone heard of such a thing?
Last edited by W203E35; 05-01-2009 at 05:23 AM.
#27
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02 cl203
someone did it to a blue coupe with custom scoop on the hood, it was posted on here but had so many problems they sold it, and then that person tried to sell it, never heard anything else
#28
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2007 C230 and 1985 Monte SS
I have heard of this being done on big diesel trucks too, you compress the air before it is put into the positive displacement blower. It's a perfectly viable way to make power, but I dont think that any 'addition of forced induction' project is ideal for a novice. Unless you actually understand compressor maps, detonation causes and prevention, basic fluids principals, how to build up a bottom end, among others...
Personally, I would be intimidated by a project like this.
Personally, I would be intimidated by a project like this.
#29
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![](https://staticssl.ibsrv.net/autocomm/Content/MB/mbwambassador2.gif)
Your car has a M111 engine - Yes? Don't even consider it on a M271 - It's not strong enough without excessive modification.
Slapping a Turbo on a diesel is a lot easier than a petrol engine - LC head & uprate/recalibrate the pump & maybe injectors.
I think the cost will be excessive. Low Compression ported head. Beefed up crank, rods & pistons - camshafts, headers - inlet plumbing & low drag air filtration, turbo or turbos (one small, one large), wastegate controller, highflow Cat, cooling, oil supply & control, injectors & an ECU remap that will ensure proper mixture control & seamless integration with the rest of the car's systems by someone that really knows what they are doing.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
Slapping a Turbo on a diesel is a lot easier than a petrol engine - LC head & uprate/recalibrate the pump & maybe injectors.
I think the cost will be excessive. Low Compression ported head. Beefed up crank, rods & pistons - camshafts, headers - inlet plumbing & low drag air filtration, turbo or turbos (one small, one large), wastegate controller, highflow Cat, cooling, oil supply & control, injectors & an ECU remap that will ensure proper mixture control & seamless integration with the rest of the car's systems by someone that really knows what they are doing.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
#30
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C280
hahaha.. wow! I think doing this is more trouble than anything. Especially for a daily driver. It's way too much work and research to make it happen. I'd rather sell the damn car and get a C55. If you want extra juice, bottle feed the damn thing.
![rolf](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/rofl.gif)
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
+1 on the Bottle Feed, cheapest and easiest way to add power.
#32
Senior Member
I dont like babies on the bottle.
Never built a bottle baby yet.
Car has the M111.
I plan on going pretty much stock block with only about 14 psi total from both.
Not looking to build a monster, just some fill in that the car needs under load.
Bigger pulley on here will net you about 10psi, it's not that much more.
I going to buy another coupe to do this so i can spend some time on it.
To me its not worth putting 15K for a 3.2 SC motor when these cars are not even worth 10K now.
Also if i was going to go V-6 I would start with the 3.5 twin cam 268 hp and then supercharge that.
Never built a bottle baby yet.
Car has the M111.
I plan on going pretty much stock block with only about 14 psi total from both.
Not looking to build a monster, just some fill in that the car needs under load.
Bigger pulley on here will net you about 10psi, it's not that much more.
I going to buy another coupe to do this so i can spend some time on it.
To me its not worth putting 15K for a 3.2 SC motor when these cars are not even worth 10K now.
Also if i was going to go V-6 I would start with the 3.5 twin cam 268 hp and then supercharge that.
#33
Super Member
sell the car and get something faster.. by the time your done with a "proper" turbo set up, ie fuel, managment, etc... you will have spent as much as your car is worth. get a c32 or c55 if you want a fast benz imo..
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
I know this may sound stupid but get an 03^ CL600 for around 30K pay 4K and do the ECU and you will have a car close to 600HP and 700TQ.
Then get extended warranty 3K
so for 37K you'll have one sick beast that you don't need to worry about breaking down and drive your Coupe as an everyday driver.
Then get extended warranty 3K
so for 37K you'll have one sick beast that you don't need to worry about breaking down and drive your Coupe as an everyday driver.
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#35
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'05 A4 1.8TQM6
It's been done with a C32...TT and S/C! Not sure if anyone remembers reading this back in 2002. With money, anything is possible ![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Insan...7/article.html
![Stick Out Tongue](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif)
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Insan...7/article.html
Mohammed Ben Sulayem just cannot stop building exotic cars. Not content with a US$1.5 million dollar Mercedes CLK GTR, the Dubai-based multiple rally champion is now driving a new addition to the range - a 500hp Mercedes C-Class based on a AMG C32 Kompressor.
International television companies have regularly featured Mohammed Ben Sulayem and his range of super cars. He is frequently seen along the vast open highways of Dubai in a Ferrari F50, an F40, a Bentley, a high-powered Toyota Landcruiser, a Porsche 959, a 911 GT1 or his mega Mercedes. But his latest project revolves around the modifications his team at Ben Sulayem Performance have made to a Mercedes C32 AMG, originally acquired in standard specification from Germany for 134,000 DM and now his regular mode of transport in the UAE.
"The great thing about the C-Class is the base package," admits Ben Sulayem, currently defending his FIA Middle East rally championship title for the 14th time. "The car has a great chassis, good suspension, handling and brakes. The chassis is easy to work with and all the safety aspects are already there."
Mohammed duly acquired the standard car and it arrived at his workshops ready for some serious tweaking. "The standard car is 350hp and supercharged, but this wasn't quick enough for me," jokes Ben Sulayem. "I couldn't feel it...! I knew it needed much more power. We decided to fit twin Garrett turbochargers to bring it up to the performance that I need."
Although it looks similar to a near standard Mercedes C32 AMG from the outside, Mohammed's latest creation now delivers around 480-500hp through a five-speed automatic transmission and boasts in the region of a massive 660Nm of torque.
"Believe me, it feels great to drive now. It's comfortable and very quick. There's so much power. You need to use the ESP (electronic stability control), because the rear wheels are still spinning when you reach 120 km/h...!"
Much of the development work and underbonnet improvements were carried out by Australian automotive engineer Steve Bijok, who is the workshop manager at BSP, near the airport in Dubai. An admitted petrol head, 29-year-old Steve spent eight years working in the performance tuning business in Australia and left his home in Sydney after spending time working for Subaru tuner MRT Performance.
Steve talked us through some of the modifications: "We had the policy that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, so there was no point making changes to the chassis, suspension and brakes. The car was acquired with numerous AMG enhancements and Mohammed stressed a few extra options. He asked for a ported and polished cylinder head, a free flow exhaust system and no catalytic converter (they are not required by law in the UAE)."
The car was fitted with a screw-type supercharger, which was effective from as low as 1000 rpm, but ran out of steam above 4500 rpm.
"I discussed this with Mohammed and he suggested that we opt for twin turbochargers, which could take over at higher revs to boost the overall power and efficiency of the engine. This could then be taken a step further by sequencing the turbo system so that once the turbocharger was making enough boost, the factory supercharger was switched off and this further increased the horsepower otherwise lost driving the supercharger."
Bijok admits that the basic core engine remained relatively unchanged, although the intake and exhaust manifolds were match ported. The oil sump was modified to improve oil scavenging, in addition to a slight increase in oil capacity to offset the effects of the turbo system. Improvements were made to the transmission oil cooling system, although Bijok was confident that the adaptive learning programme, built into the transmission, would retune itself to handle the extra power and torque being generated. Modifications were also made to the Mercedes ASR system to improve general driveability, although Bijok states that the car's interior remains standard, save for a boost gauge and a colour-coded dashboard gauge pod holder.
"The major work revolved around the turbochargers," says Steve. "Initially we looked at a pair of watercooled Garett 250hp ball bearing turbos. But there were no concerns about turbo lag and the engine's powerband because of the supercharger, so we opted for a pair of Hybrid 400hp Garetts instead."
The major challenge they faced was fitting the units into limited space in the engine bay. Sections of the firewall were removed, remoulded and rewelded into place. The factory exhaust manifolds were modified, with Bijok saying that the driver's side turbo proved to be the biggest headache. "The steering shaft to the rack goes right through the place where the turbo should fit and we were forced to install the turbo low down in relation to the oil sump. Because of this we had to install an electric oil pump, a turbo timer and a small oil cooler to lower the temperature of the oil supply to the turbochargers."
Click for larger image
Bijok reckons that he and fabricator Virgilio Noel spent over 80 hours working on the system...
Intercoolers were fitted to either side of the front bumper bar and the original factory fog lamps were removed to cater for air intake grilles for the intercoolers. The final major jobs were the actual mechanics of the bypass system built into the throttle body to allow the transition between the supercharger and turbochargers.
"Put simply, the heart of the system is an additional throttle body installed between the factory throttle body and the supercharger operated by a turbo wastegate actuator. This is connected to turbo pressure via an electronic wastegate controller programmed to open the throttle body at a preset boost pressure."
An electronically-controlled unloader valve is fitted to control an overboost situation, which occurs on the transition between the two forms of forced induction, and the system was completed with the addition of a relay to control the supercharger drive. This switches off the blower for the last 2000 rpm of engine operation.
Other additions to the specification were a 600hp fuel pump to supplement the factory-fit unit and a 70hp fuel injector fitted to the two intake manifold plenum chambers. "A programmable voltage clamp was fitted to the factory MAP sensor to allow the overall boost pressure to be raised from 0.9 bar to 1.2 bar," adds Steve. "We had a few little problems along the way," he adds. "Little things like exhaust leaks, oil scavenging and the general clearance of components, but the last challenge was to fool the factory computer into thinking that the engine was standard and was not carrying two extra turbos..."
"It's a fantastic car," endorses Steve. "It makes a Porsche GT2 look positively anaemic. I suppose it's best described as having the feeling of an 8.0-litre big block V8...."
Click for larger image
What about Mohammed's next project?
"I have three motoring aims this year," he confesses. "One is to retain my Middle East rally crown with Ford, the second is to run a successful UAE Desert Challenge race in November and the third is to build a new Mercedes based on the AMG SL55. My base car should be delivered towards the end of the year. That is fitted with a 5.5 supercharged V8 and should be superb. I think we will be looking at around 600hp with that one..."
International television companies have regularly featured Mohammed Ben Sulayem and his range of super cars. He is frequently seen along the vast open highways of Dubai in a Ferrari F50, an F40, a Bentley, a high-powered Toyota Landcruiser, a Porsche 959, a 911 GT1 or his mega Mercedes. But his latest project revolves around the modifications his team at Ben Sulayem Performance have made to a Mercedes C32 AMG, originally acquired in standard specification from Germany for 134,000 DM and now his regular mode of transport in the UAE.
"The great thing about the C-Class is the base package," admits Ben Sulayem, currently defending his FIA Middle East rally championship title for the 14th time. "The car has a great chassis, good suspension, handling and brakes. The chassis is easy to work with and all the safety aspects are already there."
Mohammed duly acquired the standard car and it arrived at his workshops ready for some serious tweaking. "The standard car is 350hp and supercharged, but this wasn't quick enough for me," jokes Ben Sulayem. "I couldn't feel it...! I knew it needed much more power. We decided to fit twin Garrett turbochargers to bring it up to the performance that I need."
Although it looks similar to a near standard Mercedes C32 AMG from the outside, Mohammed's latest creation now delivers around 480-500hp through a five-speed automatic transmission and boasts in the region of a massive 660Nm of torque.
"Believe me, it feels great to drive now. It's comfortable and very quick. There's so much power. You need to use the ESP (electronic stability control), because the rear wheels are still spinning when you reach 120 km/h...!"
Much of the development work and underbonnet improvements were carried out by Australian automotive engineer Steve Bijok, who is the workshop manager at BSP, near the airport in Dubai. An admitted petrol head, 29-year-old Steve spent eight years working in the performance tuning business in Australia and left his home in Sydney after spending time working for Subaru tuner MRT Performance.
Steve talked us through some of the modifications: "We had the policy that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, so there was no point making changes to the chassis, suspension and brakes. The car was acquired with numerous AMG enhancements and Mohammed stressed a few extra options. He asked for a ported and polished cylinder head, a free flow exhaust system and no catalytic converter (they are not required by law in the UAE)."
The car was fitted with a screw-type supercharger, which was effective from as low as 1000 rpm, but ran out of steam above 4500 rpm.
"I discussed this with Mohammed and he suggested that we opt for twin turbochargers, which could take over at higher revs to boost the overall power and efficiency of the engine. This could then be taken a step further by sequencing the turbo system so that once the turbocharger was making enough boost, the factory supercharger was switched off and this further increased the horsepower otherwise lost driving the supercharger."
Bijok admits that the basic core engine remained relatively unchanged, although the intake and exhaust manifolds were match ported. The oil sump was modified to improve oil scavenging, in addition to a slight increase in oil capacity to offset the effects of the turbo system. Improvements were made to the transmission oil cooling system, although Bijok was confident that the adaptive learning programme, built into the transmission, would retune itself to handle the extra power and torque being generated. Modifications were also made to the Mercedes ASR system to improve general driveability, although Bijok states that the car's interior remains standard, save for a boost gauge and a colour-coded dashboard gauge pod holder.
"The major work revolved around the turbochargers," says Steve. "Initially we looked at a pair of watercooled Garett 250hp ball bearing turbos. But there were no concerns about turbo lag and the engine's powerband because of the supercharger, so we opted for a pair of Hybrid 400hp Garetts instead."
The major challenge they faced was fitting the units into limited space in the engine bay. Sections of the firewall were removed, remoulded and rewelded into place. The factory exhaust manifolds were modified, with Bijok saying that the driver's side turbo proved to be the biggest headache. "The steering shaft to the rack goes right through the place where the turbo should fit and we were forced to install the turbo low down in relation to the oil sump. Because of this we had to install an electric oil pump, a turbo timer and a small oil cooler to lower the temperature of the oil supply to the turbochargers."
Click for larger image
Bijok reckons that he and fabricator Virgilio Noel spent over 80 hours working on the system...
Intercoolers were fitted to either side of the front bumper bar and the original factory fog lamps were removed to cater for air intake grilles for the intercoolers. The final major jobs were the actual mechanics of the bypass system built into the throttle body to allow the transition between the supercharger and turbochargers.
"Put simply, the heart of the system is an additional throttle body installed between the factory throttle body and the supercharger operated by a turbo wastegate actuator. This is connected to turbo pressure via an electronic wastegate controller programmed to open the throttle body at a preset boost pressure."
An electronically-controlled unloader valve is fitted to control an overboost situation, which occurs on the transition between the two forms of forced induction, and the system was completed with the addition of a relay to control the supercharger drive. This switches off the blower for the last 2000 rpm of engine operation.
Other additions to the specification were a 600hp fuel pump to supplement the factory-fit unit and a 70hp fuel injector fitted to the two intake manifold plenum chambers. "A programmable voltage clamp was fitted to the factory MAP sensor to allow the overall boost pressure to be raised from 0.9 bar to 1.2 bar," adds Steve. "We had a few little problems along the way," he adds. "Little things like exhaust leaks, oil scavenging and the general clearance of components, but the last challenge was to fool the factory computer into thinking that the engine was standard and was not carrying two extra turbos..."
"It's a fantastic car," endorses Steve. "It makes a Porsche GT2 look positively anaemic. I suppose it's best described as having the feeling of an 8.0-litre big block V8...."
Click for larger image
What about Mohammed's next project?
"I have three motoring aims this year," he confesses. "One is to retain my Middle East rally crown with Ford, the second is to run a successful UAE Desert Challenge race in November and the third is to build a new Mercedes based on the AMG SL55. My base car should be delivered towards the end of the year. That is fitted with a 5.5 supercharged V8 and should be superb. I think we will be looking at around 600hp with that one..."
#40
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm sorry...did I just hear you correctly, defending the M111 engine??? ![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
![hammer](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/bonk.gif)
Your car has a M111 engine - Yes? Don't even consider it on a M271 - It's not strong enough without excessive modification.
Slapping a Turbo on a diesel is a lot easier than a petrol engine - LC head & uprate/recalibrate the pump & maybe injectors.
I think the cost will be excessive. Low Compression ported head. Beefed up crank, rods & pistons - camshafts, headers - inlet plumbing & low drag air filtration, turbo or turbos (one small, one large), wastegate controller, highflow Cat, cooling, oil supply & control, injectors & an ECU remap that will ensure proper mixture control & seamless integration with the rest of the car's systems by someone that really knows what they are doing.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
Slapping a Turbo on a diesel is a lot easier than a petrol engine - LC head & uprate/recalibrate the pump & maybe injectors.
I think the cost will be excessive. Low Compression ported head. Beefed up crank, rods & pistons - camshafts, headers - inlet plumbing & low drag air filtration, turbo or turbos (one small, one large), wastegate controller, highflow Cat, cooling, oil supply & control, injectors & an ECU remap that will ensure proper mixture control & seamless integration with the rest of the car's systems by someone that really knows what they are doing.
Sounds like a nightmare to me.
#43
Super Member
i know this is a benz forum and people love it and want to make it faster but as for as bang for the buck thing, benz sucks unless you start with an amg and want a little bit more. from what ive been reading about the 4bangers on these forums, it seems it cannot hold boost well (well i mean 100rhwp over stock) and engine life suffers.. also with a limited aftermarket support it seems things needs to be custom and that alone makes it not worth it IMO.
I know you guys love benz, but i for one love 90's japanese muscle cars, fast, turns great, and relatively light (comparative to american muscle cars). how about my old rx7, no traction till the end of 3rd gear (maybe on a good day), and best of all the sound of a jet engine when it spools. The aftermarket support is everywhere for these type of cars, why? because it makes power easily (400rwhp without port job), my old car with a moster port and only 20psi did 504rwhp. that without meth or even getting into efficent range of the turbo.
So what am i saying? start with a better platform, go from there. unless your just stupid rich, then yeah i would get a E55amg or M5 and call it my DD and still have my weekend toy.
I know you guys love benz, but i for one love 90's japanese muscle cars, fast, turns great, and relatively light (comparative to american muscle cars). how about my old rx7, no traction till the end of 3rd gear (maybe on a good day), and best of all the sound of a jet engine when it spools. The aftermarket support is everywhere for these type of cars, why? because it makes power easily (400rwhp without port job), my old car with a moster port and only 20psi did 504rwhp. that without meth or even getting into efficent range of the turbo.
So what am i saying? start with a better platform, go from there. unless your just stupid rich, then yeah i would get a E55amg or M5 and call it my DD and still have my weekend toy.
#44
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01' C32o
i know this is a benz forum and people love it and want to make it faster but as for as bang for the buck thing, benz sucks unless you start with an amg and want a little bit more. from what ive been reading about the 4bangers on these forums, it seems it cannot hold boost well (well i mean 100rhwp over stock) and engine life suffers.. also with a limited aftermarket support it seems things needs to be custom and that alone makes it not worth it IMO.
I know you guys love benz, but i for one love 90's japanese muscle cars, fast, turns great, and relatively light (comparative to american muscle cars). how about my old rx7, no traction till the end of 3rd gear (maybe on a good day), and best of all the sound of a jet engine when it spools. The aftermarket support is everywhere for these type of cars, why? because it makes power easily (400rwhp without port job), my old car with a moster port and only 20psi did 504rwhp. that without meth or even getting into efficent range of the turbo.
So what am i saying? start with a better platform, go from there. unless your just stupid rich, then yeah i would get a E55amg or M5 and call it my DD and still have my weekend toy.
I know you guys love benz, but i for one love 90's japanese muscle cars, fast, turns great, and relatively light (comparative to american muscle cars). how about my old rx7, no traction till the end of 3rd gear (maybe on a good day), and best of all the sound of a jet engine when it spools. The aftermarket support is everywhere for these type of cars, why? because it makes power easily (400rwhp without port job), my old car with a moster port and only 20psi did 504rwhp. that without meth or even getting into efficent range of the turbo.
So what am i saying? start with a better platform, go from there. unless your just stupid rich, then yeah i would get a E55amg or M5 and call it my DD and still have my weekend toy.
But regardless of platform, if you wanna spend the money then by all means go for it.
#45
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2005 C230 Kompressor
I would just pull the supercharger off and swap over to a turbo. This was my plans for mine if the supercharger mods didnt do what I wanted.
#47
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MK IV .:R32
VW makes a twincharged engine ona Euro Golf I think.....
And the Mid. East Rally champ with the C32.......recently crashed last yrs Renault F1 car ON A STRAIGHT during some like media event lol
And the Mid. East Rally champ with the C32.......recently crashed last yrs Renault F1 car ON A STRAIGHT during some like media event lol