preyx

I know this sounds crazy, but hear me out first before busting open a can of flames...

I was talking to a friend about increasing the power out of my car, and he suggested to look into installing a turbo on top of the stock supercharger system. He explained that the ideal would be to set the turbo for high-RPM boost, so the hybrid system would be able to get a solid boost curve through a wider band than just a super or just a turbo. This way they could work together: the super would eliminate the turbo lag at lower RPMs, while the turbo would pick up where the super leaves off at the higher RPMs.

He's not a MB owner himself, so he's of course not that familiar with Kompressor engines, but then again, I don't know too much more than him either. So that leaves me with a few questions:

I know that hybrid systems exist, but would it help the Kompressor? Is it even possible for a Kompressor? And, considering that it may be possible, what could be the expected gains?

Thanks in advance for not flaming this thread.

SoCal240/6

I think I'd focus on getting that "underglow kit" installed first.

TimmyC230boy

***** Happens! over and over and over.

Mike T.

Interesting concept, combining a Turbo and a mechanical blower. It worked extremely well on one of the best Group B rally cars in the 1980s - the Lancia Delta S4.

I think that to take full advantage of a complex system like this, it would involve a lot more than bolt-on equipment. It seems to me that you'd want to reinforce the engine's internals first.

Also, the electronic management of the ignition/injection and boost would be fairly complex.

So although the idea has technical merit, think instead about dropping an AMG V8 into the car if you don't want to have to do extensive R&D on the fly.

TimmyC230boy

I know that they have done that before with the S4, but with 2 turbos. They used a smaller K03 turbo to spool up fast for low end grunt, and a K04 for higher rpm power. I'm sure there is a way to do it with a turbo and a SC, but I dont know enough to tell you how to do it. Randy, Renncpe, is doing a twin turbo on his coupe. Might want to ask him

x15jq

I also heard that Kleemann has a replacement turbo coming out. Said it would take 2 more weeks :/

I want to see what thats bout, he replaces the Eaton M45 roots type blower with a screw type turbo. Interesting enough.

BlackC230Coupe

kleemann is really coming out with a turbo? how much HP is expected? and this is comming out in 2 weeks?

x15jq

Im actually dead serious about this. I read it at csportcoupe.com its the top post right now. He says running hte SAME boost with just the diff turbo is about 20-25 hp. But they will obviously be running it higher, I think 300 is what they said. If that is really true I will plop 3 g's on it. I just hope it comes out. Thats alot of power from a 4 cylinder, but who knows? Im just tellin u what i read

TimmyC230boy

i think he may have gotten that confused with a new SC system, not a turbo.

x15jq

That is what i meant! New sc, but should put out much better power?

I was about to order a pulley but held off for this. If it dont go through, ill be onthe list for ASP. I will probably end up ordering the pulley anyways for the meantime. For 350 thats a really economical and great option thanks to Buellwinkle and Linh and Lee at ASP!

trench

Yeah!

The Lancia Delta S4... 0 to 60 in 2.9 seconds — on gravel !!



To people an idea of how fast these cars were: In 1986 Henri Toivonen did a lap of the Portugese Estoril circuit in 1m18.1s, which would have qualified him sixth for the F1 Grand Prix held at the track that year.

Cheers, BT

Here's the turbo/super-chared engine

firstkill

Yes it can be done...

renntech has the upgrade for the SLK... super charger + turbo..

so i assume our cars wouldnt be much different..


~fk

amgme

anything is possible if you have the $$$$.

eason

I think it will be cheaper to drop in a C32 engine and it's more reliable as well.

vyse

I highly doubt you can drop in a C32 AMG for less than piecing together a twincharger system. People on Silvia boards have pieced together their own turbo systems for <$1000. Granted, everyone will call that a pos, but I don't see how you're gonna spend another $20k on it to make it work properly with the S/C. If an RSX Type S K20 engine is gonna cost you $10k, imagine how much a C32 AMG engine would cost.

Jorel C320

Go for it...you can be the first to TWINCHARGE a benz

BrabusCClass

Meguairs has the Supercharged/turbo type R. You can read about it at www.teammeguairs.com

Outland

Adding boost to a normally aspirated engine is one thing.

Adding a second form of forced induction to an already forced induction motor is something completely different.

What will you do to control detonation in a motor already running close to detonation with just the supercharger? Where will you put the second intercooler???, the stock unit will not be able to handle the boost from two compressors. How will you regulate the boost? Where are you going to even find room for the turbo, the plumbing, and the new exhaust manifold? How will you route the boost to the throttle body? How much boost? Your mutant is going to behave much like a nitroused and supercharged motor, and will likely suffer the same kaboom!

Some of you guys read too much on the rice boards. These are the same guys who get 25HP from stickers.

Better options are replacing the stock supercharger with a more efficient supercharger, going with a larger intercooler and more boost from the Eaton, or just removing the supercharger entirely and going with one or two turbos(one small, one large). Or, you could try lightening up the car. The C230K is a bit of a pig, at 3200lbs. Put the Coupe's motor in the RSX-S body, and you'll have a car that's faster than the one with the K20 motor.

Rick

And the service consultant said...."warranty VOID"

firstkill

335 bhp @ 6200 RPM
360 lbs. ft. torque @ 2900-5300 RPM
Poered by a turbocharged and supercharged 2.5 liter engine, the SLK RS 2.5 accelerates from 0-60 mph in just 4.4 seconds.


Basically its the same as our car....i dont think its a different engine..

but i dont know how much it costs...

~fk
btw..this is renntechs mod

Matt230K

Even if it is the same engine on the outside, it's not the same on the inside. Not only is it a displacement increase, but the internals would all have to be beefed up to handle that kind of power and boost pressure.

Outland

If its a 2.5, then its not the *identical* motor we have. Its likely been overbored, and some forged J&E pistons put in....compression is probably lower too.

My worry with such a setup is keeping detonation at bay. Such a machine would have to run entirely on a stand alone engine management computer. I doubt you'd be able to control detonation with just a RRFPR and alcohol/water injection system which is basically what the "under 1000" bucks systems use.

Nice output...but given the complexity of such a setup, I'd rather have the C32AMG motor. Anyone know how much the actual motor costs....not the install, just the motor itself. Or better yet, one from a wrecked C32....there's got to be plenty of young and dumb idiots out there just waiting to wrap that C32 or SLK32AMG around a tree out there?

Personally, I'm not looking to go kill WRX's with my car. Sure, it would be nice, but I plan on owning this thing for a few years, and I wouldn't want to have to rebuild the motor 4 times during my ownership of the car.

The pulley swap is the most bang for the buck out there, and yet most of the guys on this board haven't done it...yet we get comments about mods being "too expensive", or "you can run 13s with an under $1000 turbo"....yeah. Just get the pully first before you go smoking your motor on something that would be crap on a rice burner, and downright stupid on a Benz.

FrankW

Delta S4....now, that was some crazy hillclimb car back in the days before they had any regulation at all...

drb930

It's time to bring this thread back up!
Does anyone know if anyone ever accomplished this, or done any serious research?

From searching it looks like Renntech made a 1 off for the SLK 2.3?
There is a kit now for the Mini Cooper.
Both Mercedes and VW are coming out with a set-up like this for 2010.

I am seriously thinking about trying it!

Thanks,
Dave

benzito911

omg im not reading any more sorry...