MB Virgin

Thought some of you folks woukd be interested in this new Nokia phone.

http://press.nokia.com/PR/200201/844677_5.html

I wonder how much it will cost?!?

bluec230

You're incorrect, that phone DOES NOT have CDMA capability. It's a TDMA & GSM phone made primarily for AT&T wireless and Cingular who are both retrofitting their existing TDMA networks and are converting ENTIRELY to GSM. Therefore for a time, AT&T And Cingular subscribers need a phone that'll work on TDMA until it's phased out and then on GSM. Infact, I living in Seattle am lucky enough to be in an area where AT&T's GSM conversion is COMPLETELY done. We have, count them, THREE Gsm companies in the Seattle area, Voicestream, AT&T, and Cingular. We were the test market for most of the first TDMA to GSM conversions. You can clearly tell that GSM is the future in america because when the conversions are complete, the only other standard will be CDMA (Verizon and Sprint PCS)

gab

GSM is also the most popular outside the US and most new phones are designed for GSM first

I just got the new Ericsson T68 phone which is GSM
Tri-Band, GPRS, Bluetooth and 256 color screen which you can download pictures to set as wallpaper.

bluec230

And GSM will soon be the most popular inside the US thanks primarily to AT&T's full conversion. Eventually all of these networks will be converted to 3G. GSM will go to EDGE and CDMA will go to CDMA2000. For those who don't know the technical terms, 3G is the next generation of wireless with superfast transfer rates. That's coming in the next 5 years.

BTW the coolest thing about GSM now is what's called GPRS. It's an always on, fast internet connection to your cell phone. AT&T, Voicestream, and Cingular all offer GPRS on theie GSM networks in the Seattle area now. Very cool! GPRS is what's considered 2.5G it's halfway between the existing 2G and upcoming 3G networks.

One more thing, you asked how much that Nokia phone at the very first post would cost. It'll more than likely be given away free to all existing AT&T/ Cingular current TDMA subscribers. That's the phone that they're going to use for the conversion, I believe. And the reason it's free? Because it's not the customer's fault that their provider is switching technologies to GSM.

Buellwinkle

Don't think that GSM will be the most popular in the US because Sprint and Verizon Wireless will continue to use CDMA and AMPS and AT&T will likely continue to use AMPS along with GSM (that's what TeleAid uses).

Just to be sure that everyone understands, meet me at the Consumer Electronics Show tomorrow in Las Vegas. We can ask the wireless providers and handset manufacturers directly.

MB Virgin

Yep, sorry for the mistake, the phone handles GSM/TDMA and analog connections, but not CDMA(AT&T wireless is TDMA implementation)...hopefully the press release was clear about that...I also hope the phone is free, but I'm prepared to pay...it seems to be a nice phone with some good features...anyhoo, I think everyone is clear about the 6340.

Again, all apologies for the mistake.

Buellwinkle

Virgin,

Why would you buy a phone strickly based on the frequency or transmission methodology and not if the phone works properly, doesn't drop calls and is clear. Most people, including the people selling the phones don't understand the difference between GSM, CDMA, and TDMA anyhow. Why do people believe all that hype. Do you know why you think TDMA is better or worse than GSM? Why combining these makes your life better? Do you know if MFP in Colgate really makes your teeth whiter? Is the New Coke better then Coke Classic? It's funny because my company has had tri-mode phones for years and it's not to make your life better, it's to cut down on the cost of roaming outside the network for that carrier. Most carriers have grown in size by buying other carriers. Some of those carriers may not be at the same frequency or be the same CDMA/TDMA/GSM/AMPS. By providing you with a phone that can operate within their network in more places they don't have to pay their competitor roaming fees. Does it give you better service, maybe yes, maybe worse, because you are not charged extra for roaming outside the network so why worry about it (unless you have sprint that charges extra for roaming outside the network).

To find a good carrier ask people you know that use their phone a lot and ask about dropped calls, poor customer service and what color faceplates you can get.

mb_newbie

Totally agree with you, consumer should care more about price, qulity of service, functions, and style (maybe). As for the technology that used by service providers, there are too many political reasons in behind. GSM is popular in several areas, because they offered some "free" stuff initially for several regions outside Europe. As for 3G, either W-CDMA or CDMA2000, they all use CDMA technology. ( the name already says it, otherwise, why not use something else for the name ).

Besides that, the phone that NOKIA just released is "BIG" (instead of making a "smart chip" to function for both systems, they are basically putting two chip set into one phone so the phone can "understand" both systems). But, who cares, once it is cheap (or free) and works for you, then grab it.

-- mb newbie

MB Virgin

I do know about service, and the cell phone hardware is independent of the service provider...GSM and D-AMPS are actually TDMA(time division multiple access) implementations that are incompatible in terms of protocol, but use the same three-channel division scheme, so they can be integrated with relative ease...CDMA cannot, as it is a completely different method of moving cellular signals...this is precisely why AT&T(and the other TDMA-based) providers will eventually eat up the CDMA providers...like it or not, this is inevitable.
As far as methodology, the GOVERNMENT(FCC) de4cides the frequency bandwidth for cellular communications, not the phone manf, so you need to understand what your touting- as you clearly do not...your company bought tri-mode phones because each carrier is assigned a bandwidth which it operates within, but low/no roaming charges is a benefit of being able to connect within a licensed frequency.

As for the difference between TDMA and GSM, there is no difference in the three-channel mulitplexing scheme, but they are incompatible like different computer programming languages implement proprietary computer code to deliver the same result.

To continue, I use in excess of 3000 minutes on AT&T monthly, and have been for over three(3) years, with the same phone number because AT&T delivers for me in the SE U.S.

Finally, this phone appeals to me because when purchased I can reliably roam WORLDWIDE without concern for the wireless protocol implemented, and the benefits of WAP, SMS, etc are included. Also, AT&T has NEVER failed to deliver for me, but you are free to choose your carrier, though Sprint(a CDMA provider) is desperately trying to keep up with in the face of the inevitable TDMA/GSM/D-AMPS integration...I call it the Betamax effect- whereby the nuts and bolts are just fine, but market share will dictate what the public chooses...much like DIVX or Apple, there is nothing wrong with them, but the public has made there choice.

In conclusion, GSM is TDMA(which is why it can being overlayed) and will integrate, rather easily, though at a co$t, while CDMA will eventually go the way of the dodo. I hope I don't have to explain that this phone is indeed the answer for dropped calls and network hopping, and the phone doesn't drop calls or provide clear calls, the network does!

Hope that answered some questions.

BTW: 3G refers to ANY third generation wireless implementation, expected to arrive around 2003, and be fully implemented by 2005 whther it be CDMA, TDMA, D-AMPS, or GSM...much like a new version of an operating system upgrade.

mb_newbie

According to the information for this site http://www.cellular-news.com/article.cgi/5480 , "sprint" is not the only one that "desperately trying to keep up".

"CDMA will eventually go the way of the dodo", well, yeah, it will be replaced by W-CDMA and CDMA2000 (if you still insist they are not CDMA).

Oh, by the way, Nextel just announced today that they are going to use CDMA ( http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020110/102208_1.html ).

-- mb newbie

MB Virgin

It's Apple vs Microsoft...VHS vs Beta...eventually they will all recognize the competitors protocols.

This article also refers to Direct Connect, not cellular, and is not the same thing, it is voice only.

Moreover, you don't seem to recognize that the GSM/TDMA protocols are ALREADY in place and expanding rapidly. Sure, there will be joint ventures, consortiums,etc who will continue to develop the individual standards, and only time will tell who 'wins' out, but I take exception to someone attempting to lecture me on the details of celluar communication.

Also, the IMT-2000 standard seeks to include ALL protocols.

Personally, I will see who provides the biggest bang for the buck, but until then, the debate will continue.

mb_newbie

There is not debate needed; the GSM/TDMA is useless junk for me (just got the Motorola V60 installed last month), just like the CDMA is useless junk for you.

-- mb newbie

greg230

hold the phone there.... cdma 2000 is 3g cdma technology, 1xrtt is 2.5 cdma technology.

WCDMA is true 3g GSM technology.

it gets confusing but wcdma is NOT i repeat NOT related to the current CDMA network used by verizon and sprint. it has nothing to do with the CDMA that is patented by kyocera/qualacomm.

att and cingular are switching to gsm, since tdma sucks so much. its an old tech, with call clarity, data transfer and call capacity limits that have been reached years ago.

CDMA technology is aging, and verizon and sprint are reaching spectrum caps in major markets left and right. verizon has even begun testing wcdma network hardware, that means gsm EVERYWHERE. including in america. This is because verizon wireless is partially owned by vodafone, one of the largest gsm providers in all of europe, and it really doesnt like paying roaming rates to its US competitors when a customer roams abroad.

now china just rolled out, or is in the process of rolling out a giant cdma network. that may change things if a multibillion dollar market for cdma technology opens up

confusing isnt it.

i buy whatever the dealer tells me, so i ordered a v60c install kit

greg

mb_newbie

Greg,

Your description is 99.9% correct; W-CDMA is not using CDMA network backbone but it does use CDMA technology (otherwise, they can call it W-GSM). NOKIA (the major W-CDMA supporter/developer) signed CDMA royalty/license agreement with Qualcomm last year.

As for Verizon/Vodafone issues, I guess they kind of have a solution later provided by Qualcomm (http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/ja...ews_1686.shtml). There are more 3G related information/news at http://www.3gnewsroom.com/3g_news/index.shtml.

Just like what you said, it is confusing . (even worse, there are 4G on the way). However, for normal consumer like us, who really care what kind of technology is hiding behind. I choose the phone according to availability, price, functions, and style ( the v60 is a good looking one, you will like it ).

-- mb newbie

greg230

i got my first v60 when they became available through verizon, back in june or so this year, so the 60 through mb is old hat

eventually cdma phones are gonna support gsm roaming, but who cares. buy the phone thats gonna allow you to get the best service.... NOW

dont tell me that "service" is not at all phone dependent, cause thats bs. I can sit in my house with my v60s, through verizon and get 2 bars of signal, and my moms startac is in analogmode , and my sisters timeport gets 1 bar, and my friends nokia gets NO service. all with verizon, all our phones are working and have same prl info.

the ability to hold on to week signal, and readiness for a phone to switch to analog mode is a big determinant for "service"

am i happy with verizon, yea, i get 2000 peak, 3000 n&w minutes with long distance. is att a good choice? yea, they rate well at least.

is vstream or cingular or sprint a good choice???

well jdpower says they blow, and planetfeedcak ranks them BELOW industry standards. so obviously just being gsm doesnt mean your service is gonna be great. hell global roaming is awesome, but if you cant get a signal in the building you work in it isnt worth a hill of beans.

in america, cdma is king, followed by tdma and gsm. maybe that will change, but not before my 1 year contract runs out

greg

Darkman

You are incorrect; 3G will arrive in the U.S. in the summer of 2002. According to an international standards committee, 3G refers to any wireless standard that has data rates of up to 144 kbps. Sprint and Verizon Wireless will roll out CDMA 2000 1xrtt by the summer of 2002 and support data rates of up to 144 kbps. Technically, this qualifies as 3G. In reality, the average data rates are going to be around 60-80 kbps, much faster than GPRS's rates of 20-40 kbps.

greg230

according to a director of IT from verizon, ~20% of verizons network is already 1xrtt, just waiting for phones, and an official roll out

hehe

greg