In Defense of the C230 Coupe (and the new CLC)
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In Defense of the C230 Coupe (and the new CLC)
This my first post as a forum noob, moderators please be kind.
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now, and have been struck by the clear dislike shown by so may of the c230 coupes.
Aesthetics aside, MB-USA desperately needs such a vehicle, and may need to bring the a-class to our shores as well.
Forget the "gas guzzler" taxes you pay for the higher performing cars, Mercedes will face enormous fines if they cannot bring their "fleet" mpg average way up.
A recent US & World Report article shows Mercedes own 2011 mpg target 21% below the recently revised requirements. (Porsche however, is in a deeper hole @ 48% below target).
What can be done in 3 short years? The c-class coupe is almost certain to return to the US market as the CLC for '09, but to meet the fleet average, maybe they'll have to stop importing the v12's or some other dramatic or drastic measure.
So while the coupe purists may complain, "it a hatchback, not a coupe!", my 6 speed hatchback is really more fun to drive than the 190sl, and will probably help (as the CLC) Mercedes meet their 2011 fleet mpg requirements.
btw: love the forums, learned a lot so far, and no, I bought the 190sl used, but I did get the 300sel new (about $14,000 in 1971 if I recall).
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now, and have been struck by the clear dislike shown by so may of the c230 coupes.
Aesthetics aside, MB-USA desperately needs such a vehicle, and may need to bring the a-class to our shores as well.
Forget the "gas guzzler" taxes you pay for the higher performing cars, Mercedes will face enormous fines if they cannot bring their "fleet" mpg average way up.
A recent US & World Report article shows Mercedes own 2011 mpg target 21% below the recently revised requirements. (Porsche however, is in a deeper hole @ 48% below target).
What can be done in 3 short years? The c-class coupe is almost certain to return to the US market as the CLC for '09, but to meet the fleet average, maybe they'll have to stop importing the v12's or some other dramatic or drastic measure.
So while the coupe purists may complain, "it a hatchback, not a coupe!", my 6 speed hatchback is really more fun to drive than the 190sl, and will probably help (as the CLC) Mercedes meet their 2011 fleet mpg requirements.
btw: love the forums, learned a lot so far, and no, I bought the 190sl used, but I did get the 300sel new (about $14,000 in 1971 if I recall).
Last edited by qianlimoro; 06-25-2008 at 03:08 PM.
#3
Out Of Control!!
The Smart is selling suprisingly well, and has a waiting list that's probably longer than most of the high-end Benzes. The '09 Fit will be imported in much larger numbers than the first gen, and the small class as a whole is doing very well in the US. I'm not sure how well the B series is doing in Canada, but I'd imagine it's doing at least ok.
Mercedes will learn eventually that it's in their own interest to bring smaller cars to the US, and hell, even market them. With current gas prices, I can't see how the US perception can't change about smaller cars, esp. if MB allows them to be equipped appropriately. Of course, I've been wrong before. Until then, I'll enjoy driving my crx more than the coupey in summertime, and enjoy 35mpg.
Mercedes will learn eventually that it's in their own interest to bring smaller cars to the US, and hell, even market them. With current gas prices, I can't see how the US perception can't change about smaller cars, esp. if MB allows them to be equipped appropriately. Of course, I've been wrong before. Until then, I'll enjoy driving my crx more than the coupey in summertime, and enjoy 35mpg.
#4
The Smart sold like hot-cakes when the Canadian government offered $2K "eco" incentives.
Those buying the Smart aren't very "smart" economically. The price difference on purchase and service costs are more than the fuel economy savings over 5-years of ownership of a Yaris/Fit/Versa, plus you get backseats! Over the long run, the Smart is expensive to maintain while the Yaris/Fit/Versa will flood the market with cheap parts.
#5
Americans don't like hatchbacks, they have never sold well.
Honda won't even bring over the Civic hatchback, despite the Civic selling very well in NA.
A much better sales pitch than "hatchback" is "5-dr" with a vertical rear hatch, like the B-class. WRX, Mazda 3, ... "5-dr" models seem to sell well.
I very much doubt the CLC coupe is coming back to the US. Canada yes, the C-coupe has sold well here.
Honda won't even bring over the Civic hatchback, despite the Civic selling very well in NA.
A much better sales pitch than "hatchback" is "5-dr" with a vertical rear hatch, like the B-class. WRX, Mazda 3, ... "5-dr" models seem to sell well.
I very much doubt the CLC coupe is coming back to the US. Canada yes, the C-coupe has sold well here.
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The Smart is selling suprisingly well, and has a waiting list that's probably longer than most of the high-end Benzes. The '09 Fit will be imported in much larger numbers than the first gen, and the small class as a whole is doing very well in the US. I'm not sure how well the B series is doing in Canada, but I'd imagine it's doing at least ok.
Mercedes will learn eventually that it's in their own interest to bring smaller cars to the US, and hell, even market them. With current gas prices, I can't see how the US perception can't change about smaller cars, esp. if MB allows them to be equipped appropriately. Of course, I've been wrong before. Until then, I'll enjoy driving my crx more than the coupey in summertime, and enjoy 35mpg.
Mercedes will learn eventually that it's in their own interest to bring smaller cars to the US, and hell, even market them. With current gas prices, I can't see how the US perception can't change about smaller cars, esp. if MB allows them to be equipped appropriately. Of course, I've been wrong before. Until then, I'll enjoy driving my crx more than the coupey in summertime, and enjoy 35mpg.
#7
Senior Member
i hope you are right about the CLC coming here. i even asked my MB dealer how much it would take to get one.
After having MB convertibles for 12 years, I was sick of not having any cargo space and snapped up the Coupe.
I think our collective tastes in the way cars look is about to be radically altered by the gas prices. Suddenly, i see rich old guys in Smart cars.
I heard the CLC also has better fuel efficiency than our older coupes.
I will be lining up to get one if they come here.
As for the hatch -- they resolved the design problem, pretty much. One bad thing about the CLC is they pushed up the badging and blocked out the tiny rear window. That rear window on the hatch is actually a safety measure.
Other than that, I am all for the CLC.
After having MB convertibles for 12 years, I was sick of not having any cargo space and snapped up the Coupe.
I think our collective tastes in the way cars look is about to be radically altered by the gas prices. Suddenly, i see rich old guys in Smart cars.
I heard the CLC also has better fuel efficiency than our older coupes.
I will be lining up to get one if they come here.
As for the hatch -- they resolved the design problem, pretty much. One bad thing about the CLC is they pushed up the badging and blocked out the tiny rear window. That rear window on the hatch is actually a safety measure.
Other than that, I am all for the CLC.
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So true. I'm sure that's why Mercedes called the c230 a "sport coupe".
It's often about image. That's why a "sport utility vehicle" that was never intended for (and incapable of) off-road use is still a SUV and not a "station wagon". Take them off the truck chassis and make them car based... station wagon? no, crossover...
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'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
So true. I'm sure that's why Mercedes called the c230 a "sport coupe".
It's often about image. That's why a "sport utility vehicle" that was never intended for (and incapable of) off-road use is still a SUV and not a "station wagon". Take them off the truck chassis and make them car based... station wagon? no, crossover...
It's often about image. That's why a "sport utility vehicle" that was never intended for (and incapable of) off-road use is still a SUV and not a "station wagon". Take them off the truck chassis and make them car based... station wagon? no, crossover...
In any event, I'd rather see more displacement and engine types (diesel vs gas) options as offered in other markets rather than body styles. The CLC is not that much lighter than the C (assuming the CLC has similar weight to the C-coupe, which it should; Mercedes UK doesn't have curb weight). This doesn't speak to a much greater efficiency than the M271 on the same chassis, though MB UK lists the CLC 350 is able to get 37.2 mpg highway, but, if I remember correctly, the British mile is slightly different than the US mile.
I doubt it, though, that many people will buy an E 200 like the one that my cousin drives overseas, efficiency or not. That's not what Mercedes' brand is about, especially for its more wealthy customers, like those that buy S, CLK, CL, and SL classes.
Last edited by jedcred; 06-25-2008 at 09:39 PM.
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And there is the rub. The customer doesn't have to care about the efficiency, it's being federally mandated.
#12
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FUEL EFFICENCY
I read a while back that MB had developed a new line of 4-cylinder diesels that averaged 45 mpg. I wrote an email to MB regarding them being brought to the US. Alas, no plans. Me thinks they need to re-think that.
If I'm not mistaken, the newest iteration of the BlueTECH engine will be 50-state legal.
If I'm not mistaken, the newest iteration of the BlueTECH engine will be 50-state legal.
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'04 Mars Red C230K Sport Coupe (not Coup-EH)
I read a while back that MB had developed a new line of 4-cylinder diesels that averaged 45 mpg. I wrote an email to MB regarding them being brought to the US. Alas, no plans. Me thinks they need to re-think that.
If I'm not mistaken, the newest iteration of the BlueTECH engine will be 50-state legal.
If I'm not mistaken, the newest iteration of the BlueTECH engine will be 50-state legal.
Last edited by jedcred; 06-25-2008 at 10:24 PM.
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fyi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temsdy-WFfM
youtube of CLC
http://www.usnews.com/articles/busin...age-rules.html
US News & World Report article regarding 2011-2015 mpg regs.
Interestingly, Porsche, Suzuki, Subaru, VW & BMW are ahead of MB (ie: farther away from their target fleet mpg).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=temsdy-WFfM
youtube of CLC
http://www.usnews.com/articles/busin...age-rules.html
US News & World Report article regarding 2011-2015 mpg regs.
Interestingly, Porsche, Suzuki, Subaru, VW & BMW are ahead of MB (ie: farther away from their target fleet mpg).
#15
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Yo, Eraser head newb dude.....
We don't need no stinking defense.
More than 250K sport coups have been sold worldwide.
I eat 330's for breakfast. People love my car.
Wanna have some real fun? Springs, AMG Front sway bar, H&R rear and you'll have tears of joy streaming down your cheeks.
We don't need no stinking defense.
More than 250K sport coups have been sold worldwide.
I eat 330's for breakfast. People love my car.
Wanna have some real fun? Springs, AMG Front sway bar, H&R rear and you'll have tears of joy streaming down your cheeks.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 06-26-2008 at 02:49 AM.
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actually the CLK350 price range is very close to the 335i coupe nowaday. don't forget it is only in US that the CLK200k are not sold due to market strategy. one can argue that the 3 series coupe doesn't have a V8 to compete with the CLK550 which is true, but the two cars are indeed competitors.
anyways, back to the topic...to meet the 2011 mpg avg MB is now selling the Smart cars which is sold as part of MBUSA subsidiary, so they will help the mpg standard to avg out. I hope the B-class makes it to the US soon. I've actually see someone driving a B200 turbo recently around my house with CA plate.
Porsche and VW shouldn't have a problem making the requirement by 2015. all they need is introduce the TDI line-up in every model for VW and TDI line-up for the Cayanne and the upcoming Panamera.
Subaru probably have to start introducing FWD models to improve their mpg avg.
p.s. if they expect all the manufacturer meet the new CAFE standards they need to start killing....uh...i mean changing the CA emission standards to allow more diesel cars that can be sold here. Californians buy more cars than any other states.
anyways, back to the topic...to meet the 2011 mpg avg MB is now selling the Smart cars which is sold as part of MBUSA subsidiary, so they will help the mpg standard to avg out. I hope the B-class makes it to the US soon. I've actually see someone driving a B200 turbo recently around my house with CA plate.
Porsche and VW shouldn't have a problem making the requirement by 2015. all they need is introduce the TDI line-up in every model for VW and TDI line-up for the Cayanne and the upcoming Panamera.
Subaru probably have to start introducing FWD models to improve their mpg avg.
p.s. if they expect all the manufacturer meet the new CAFE standards they need to start killing....uh...i mean changing the CA emission standards to allow more diesel cars that can be sold here. Californians buy more cars than any other states.
Last edited by FrankW; 06-26-2008 at 06:02 AM.
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Yo, Eraser head newb dude.....
We don't need no stinking defense.
More than 250K sport coups have been sold worldwide.
I eat 330's for breakfast. People love my car.
Wanna have some real fun? Springs, AMG Front sway bar, H&R rear and you'll have tears of joy streaming down your cheeks.
We don't need no stinking defense.
More than 250K sport coups have been sold worldwide.
I eat 330's for breakfast. People love my car.
Wanna have some real fun? Springs, AMG Front sway bar, H&R rear and you'll have tears of joy streaming down your cheeks.
Indeed. No dissin' going on around here. Go to the 'coupes & cabriolets' boards and tell me that.
I love the car too (most of the time..).
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(snip)...anyways, back to the topic...to meet the 2011 mpg avg MB is now selling the Smart cars which is sold as part of MBUSA subsidiary, so they will help the mpg standard to avg out. I hope the B-class makes it to the US soon. I've actually see someone driving a B200 turbo recently around my house with CA plate.
(snip again...) ...if they expect all the manufacturer meet the new CAFE standards they need to start killing....uh...i mean changing the CA emission standards to allow more diesel cars that can be sold here. Californians buy more cars than any other states.
(snip again...) ...if they expect all the manufacturer meet the new CAFE standards they need to start killing....uh...i mean changing the CA emission standards to allow more diesel cars that can be sold here. Californians buy more cars than any other states.
California sets the de facto standards in the U.S. auto market. If it can't be sold in California, we're not going to see it.
#20
The craze will die off once the first maintenance bills come in, people buying cheap economy cars don't like to pay for $2-400 oil changes.
Moreso, like any trend, it'll die off when the market becomes saturated.
There was a waiting list previously for a Smart car, operative word, WAS. Instead I see more Yaris/Fit/Versa since they are a better buy.
Moreso, like any trend, it'll die off when the market becomes saturated.
There was a waiting list previously for a Smart car, operative word, WAS. Instead I see more Yaris/Fit/Versa since they are a better buy.
#21
Out Of Control!!
And I do agree with the sentiment here; a $15-20k car that's unreliable or expensive to maintain isn't much of a bargain. I do know that I'm probably back to Honda after the ccoupe gives up the ghost.
#22
Yeah, they really are becoming very popular, at least the Yaris and Fit. The Versa I think is a total misfire.
And I do agree with the sentiment here; a $15-20k car that's unreliable or expensive to maintain isn't much of a bargain. I do know that I'm probably back to Honda after the ccoupe gives up the ghost.
And I do agree with the sentiment here; a $15-20k car that's unreliable or expensive to maintain isn't much of a bargain. I do know that I'm probably back to Honda after the ccoupe gives up the ghost.
The Versa is the best bargain of the Yaris and Fit. Its cheaper, roomier, and drives nicer. Plus Nissan is giving them away with 0-0.9% financing. Plus the manual Yaris sucks, its like a truck shifter, way too long and mounted on the floor.
#23
Out Of Control!!
Ugh - upscale version is cvt only. Who in their right mind does that on an economy car? I had a Yaris 5-door when I was on vacation in Nova Scotia last year (don't know why the US doesn't get it) - was pleasantly surprised with it, even with the slushbox. Haven't driven the manny, but wouldn't doubt what you said; Honda's manuals are hard to beat.
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C230 coupe, nothing special :)
This my first post as a forum noob, moderators please be kind.
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now, and have been struck by the clear dislike shown by so may of the c230 coupes.
Aesthetics aside, MB-USA desperately needs such a vehicle, and may need to bring the a-class to our shores as well.
Forget the "gas guzzler" taxes you pay for the higher performing cars, Mercedes will face enormous fines if they cannot bring their "fleet" mpg average way up.
A recent US & World Report article shows Mercedes own 2011 mpg target 21% below the recently revised requirements. (Porsche however, is in a deeper hole @ 48% below target).
What can be done in 3 short years? The c-class coupe is almost certain to return to the US market as the CLC for '09, but to meet the fleet average, maybe they'll have to stop importing the v12's or some other dramatic or drastic measure.
So while the coupe purists may complain, "it a hatchback, not a coupe!", my 6 speed hatchback is really more fun to drive than the 190sl, and will probably help (as the CLC) Mercedes meet their 2011 fleet mpg requirements.
btw: love the forums, learned a lot so far, and no, I bought the 190sl used, but I did get the 300sel new (about $14,000 in 1971 if I recall).
I've been lurking in these forums for a while now, and have been struck by the clear dislike shown by so may of the c230 coupes.
Aesthetics aside, MB-USA desperately needs such a vehicle, and may need to bring the a-class to our shores as well.
Forget the "gas guzzler" taxes you pay for the higher performing cars, Mercedes will face enormous fines if they cannot bring their "fleet" mpg average way up.
A recent US & World Report article shows Mercedes own 2011 mpg target 21% below the recently revised requirements. (Porsche however, is in a deeper hole @ 48% below target).
What can be done in 3 short years? The c-class coupe is almost certain to return to the US market as the CLC for '09, but to meet the fleet average, maybe they'll have to stop importing the v12's or some other dramatic or drastic measure.
So while the coupe purists may complain, "it a hatchback, not a coupe!", my 6 speed hatchback is really more fun to drive than the 190sl, and will probably help (as the CLC) Mercedes meet their 2011 fleet mpg requirements.
btw: love the forums, learned a lot so far, and no, I bought the 190sl used, but I did get the 300sel new (about $14,000 in 1971 if I recall).