seen

hi,

i have just got my 2003 C180k, on the 20th of dec. i returned it to the dealer on the next working day (23th), since it frequently dropped the first gear. now they removed the whole transmission took it apart and still looking for the problem (anyway i doubt that the local MB service can properly handle a transmission issue).
they gave me a class A as a replacement which is by no means comparable to my C (and also a diesel with auto tranny).

i would think that a problem like this should have been sorted out BEFORE delivery. at least this is what i expect from MB.

i wonder if you had better experience in the UK/US or Canada.

Buellwinkle

I think you expect too much from MB, they are not very reliable cars.

AndrewK

Both of our M-Bs have been reasonably reliable (nothing that has made them undriveable). About your problem, I remeber a service manager showing me a tech bulletin about this exact problem. I forget what part it was, but I think its some sort of a ring-shaped part in the synchro (???), and if its installed backwards then it wants to pop out of first gear. Sorry for being so vague but I'm no mechanic and I cant remember exactly what the part is.

mleskovar

Not a good start for you and your car. Hope you get things sorted out. Once fixed properly your car should last a long time. I doubt your local dealer has enough volume to gain any experience with the transmissions....I hope I'm wrong.

seen

does anybody know the part number or any other info? i would be glad to tell the service what to look for :P

Jim Banville

Please post evidence, other than you sole experiences, to prove that MB's in general are not very reliable cars (which seems to imply poor or low reliability) How about a JD Power survey? Are MB's the most reliable? No. Are they the most unrelaible? No. Are they average in reliablility? Yes. Does spending more on any brand of car mean you are getting better reliability? No. Do people unrealistically expect near 100% reliability from every example of every model from an expensive luxury car like MB? Yes. Are you guaranteed to get near 100% reliability from another brand of car just because it may be listed high in general reliability on surveys such as JD Powers'? NO.

avlis

Good post Jim.

The problem with this subject is that it all comes down to people's perception of quality/reliablity.

When asked how they liked thier new MBs, two guys replied:

Guy #1: It's great. I love it, and the only problem was a defective wire harness that caused an error message to pop up.

Guy #2: It's a complete POS! I paid $40k and the stupid BAS/ESP failures keep coming up and the dealer had to replace a friggin wire harness!

Buellwinkle

Jim, while MB is #10 in the JD Powers 5 yr dependability survey this can be misleading as some people get such great service from MB that they may forget their unpleasent experience when they survey comes. I can only say that the 4 MB's over the past 19 years that I owned and my parents MB have been a repair shop's dream, an owner's nightmare. So you ask, why did I get another MB knowing what a POS they truly are? I haven't had an MB in about 13-14 years and I figured since Jaguar's reliability improved a lot when Ford took them over that MB would have benefitted in the same way with the Chrysler take over and I took a risk, one that hasn't paid off in reliability but it's still a nice car and I enjoy it, at least for the 4 years I get free maintenance and warranty. And before you say all my mods caused this, it hasn't. 7 out of 8 warranty claims where prior to pulley or suspension mods, the latest being a faulty PS pump. Unless something convinces me otherwise, in 2 1/2 years when the warranty is up I'll probably go back to dependable Ford's.

Iceman's C230

Would that be like SVT Mustang Cobra with close to 400HP? I know you wan't one Buellwinkle admit it.

Buellwinkle

Although a Convertible Cobra would be a dream car, I'll wait for the new Lincoln LS chassis based Mustang as the current fox chassis is my only real negative with the car. I took the Mustang Convertible out this morning to get it detailed, I hope they are done by lunch time as it will be in the high 70's today and perfect convertible weather, woohooo!

Also keep in mind the such a car would be way more expensive than my $25K Coupe. The '03 Cobra Convertible is about $38K with little hope for rebates, finance incentives or discounts. I would likely just get a GT Convertible for about $25k and boost up the ponies a little bit, part of the fun anyway. One nice thing about Mustang GTs is there's tons of inexpensive aftermarket mods for it.

Imagine, a car that only goes to the dealer for detailing and maintenance, if only MB can be that good!

Jim Banville

So, does this mean that ALL Mustang's are 100% trouble-free?

CitronC230K_03

NO! And the Explorers had their problems too!!!

Buellwinkle

Like I said, I only know from personal experience, 4 MBs, all bad, 5 Mustangs, all good. I understand where you are coming from and all manufacturers make good and bad cars, but I can't keep pressing my luck, I have to go with what works for me and up until now, MB hasn't been doing it for me reliability wise. Once in a while I follow the Mustang forums and I don't see the quantity or types of problems people experience with their cars on this forum. Sure people have trouble, but not time and time again with safety features like ABS/ESP, check engine lights, power steering pumps, keys that don't work, vents that excessively outgas and cloud windows, rattles, differential failures and more.

bagwell

hehehhehe that's pretty bad when a Ford Mustang is more reliable than a Mercedes.

I've had my share of probs with my MB, more than any other car I've owned- Japanese or US. Right now, the front passengers' window and memory switch's backlighting flicker like crazy at night...but the switches still work fine....I'm waiting for something else to break before I take it in (I know somthing else will so...might as well kill 2 birds with 1 stone right ?)

seen

sorry Jim to say that, but you miss the point. i do think that i should get something for my extra money. othervise i will get a BMW or a Lexus next time.
anyway, i think there is a huge problem at the QA department of a car manufacturer if i was able to get a car at the dealer which is not driveable AT ALL. and believe me it is not driveable if you did not have your first gear. what kind of a QA is that?
also count in, that i wanted to buy a NEW car not a repaired one. if i have not, i would went for a used ride.

bagwell

I'm glad someone has one ! LOL

nboyd

If this was a Ford, Toyota, Ipod, Compaq, Honda, Rolls Royce or Nestle forum, you would have people complaining that the product was not reliable.

Last week I added myself to two new forums, 1 for my cell phone and the other for my Archos player. I can not believe so many people complain about them, my archos player was perfect until I found out about the battery problem. Now like the rest of them I have an issue with my Archos player, I wish I had never subscribed but I can't stop readind, and posting.

Nathan

avlis

I know what you mean. 2 years ago I got an Iomega HipZip MP3 player and joined that forum. Nothing but complainers there too. It's really only the same 4 guys whining. My unit has been and still is perfect (except for a minor software glitch).

I stopped reading the Honda Accord forums for the same reason- "gee, I thought my Accord wasn't supposed to break, I expect more for a $23k car...yeah, me too....yeah, me three..."etc.

Outland

It works the other way. Because people pay so much for the cars, they are hypersensitized to ANY problems...even ones that don't technically exist. The pulling on C7 cars...every car Ive ever driven that has wide low profile tires tends to pull depending on the crown of the road.

The only MB's 'I'(yes, I, just me...not claiming to be a know it all) know of that are patently unreliable are the ML's.

My Coupe has never been back to the dealer. Easily the most trouble free car that me or my wife have ever had. My folks own a couple of benz's when I was growing up...both ran to nearly 300,000 before being sold...I don't ever remember the car ever having to go back to the dealer...except for the hood ornament...but that was STOLEN.

CitronC230K_03

like ive said before ive owned an '83 300CD from 198k - 239k miles, and an '87 300D from 151k to 190k miles and kept running. i replaced a window switch in the C123, and i replaced the sunroof motor, window motor, and ignition in the W124. my C123 was definately more reliable. my moms owned a couple mercedes-benz growing up and im currently driving her '89 560SL until my coupe arrives. granted it only has 82k miles and always sat in the garage. the only problem with the R107 was a water pump around 74k miles.

CitronC230K_03

also im not saying that they are perfect cars and never break. granted the 2 ive owned i was 2nd owner of both and wasnt there during the initial break in period. also im not saying the more money you spend the less it should break. the more you spend, the more expensive they are to fix, maintain, insure, and you should expect great service from the dealership! granted you can buy a $15k car and get great service but you are happy with it when you spend $15k and expect it when people spend say $40k. just my $0.02.

Outland

No, but every mustang Ive ever been in has that same cheaper than K-Mart interior, the same weatherstriping/filler foam piece falling out around the A-pillars, the same abysmal build quality, and that same loud THUNKING noise when you slam the door or go over a bump...yup, that big clunky undamped door handle makes the noise. Watch it bounce when you shut the door.

I've rented Mustangs numerous times on business trips. 1 had to be left in a different city because of overheating on a trip to Kansas City, and Ive had two that kept lighting up the check engine light. The last one I rented kept 'chimming' every 30 seconds when the airconditioning was on. Trouble free cars? Pulease. And despite the faults, I still like the car. It looks good, handles decently, and offers a lot of performance and style for the money.

DCX Engineer

Here is a good article I read today about MB vs. Lexus.

http://www.detnews.com/2003/insiders.../b01-49698.htm

Buellwinkle

Now imagine what I go through, as bad as the Mustangs are (your perception, no my experience), the MBs are many times worse. Yes I brought in the Mustang for warranty repairs, 8 times in 1 year, NO. My first benz was in 12 times for the same problem until I decided to lemon law the car and didn't include the other 6 times the same year I brough it in for different problems. The lemon law replacement car need a horn and transmission after a week, the radio broke a week later. You can't compare a rental car that gets tough abuse to a personal car you've own and take car of. And like I've said, maybe it's luck of the draw and I drew four duds in a row, maybe if I get another one it will be like Jim's flawless car.

CitronC230K_03

that is a really great article!