Suspension and STeering help
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
Suspension and STeering help
I have posted about this before but have recieved little technical advice. However, my car now has 95k and my warranty is almost up, so I could really use some help. Here's the problem: I am experiencing very loose and wandering steering (especially from slight moves off center), along with a sway and slight bounce over one-wheel irregularities. The car is very unstable over undulating conditions and speeds of over 80 mph. It has been a pervasive problem, lasting for approximately 25k. I have had the front sway bar replaced, both lower control arms, strut bearing, and bushings all under warranty. I have gone through countless alignments (both at the dealer and at tire shops) as well as tire/wheel/air pressure configurations. I even used nitrogen in the tires for pressure. My stock 17s have continental sport contact 2s and the Brabus 19s I am currently running are Toyo T1r 235/35/19 and 265/30/19. Moreover, I have had to refill my power steering fluid, with no leaks present, and when I brake hard, the car's front end weaves and pulls all over the lane (alignment issue?). I dont know what to say to the dealer to get them to diagnose this problem but it is becoming a safety issue. So far, I have been told that its because of my oversized wheels and the sway is from the shock rebounding. I have also been told that my car is performing the way it should compared to a similar model on the lot. could it be a spring problem? What could be wrong and how can I approach the dealer to get this rectified? any help would be greatly appreciated
Moderator Alumni
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 22
From: Seattle
w203 m112
Are your wheels / tires balanced?
Are your rotors warped?
Have you flushed the brake fluid?
Have you had the wheel bearings tightened?
Are the lug bolts securely tightened to ~81 ft/lb?
Are your tires rubbing?
Are your rotors warped?
Have you flushed the brake fluid?
Have you had the wheel bearings tightened?
Are the lug bolts securely tightened to ~81 ft/lb?
Are your tires rubbing?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 6
From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
check your alignment...bad alignment can cause a car to pull in a certain direction when stopping.
check tire wear, uneven tire wear supports the fact your car might be misaligned.
Check to see if your tires are balanced. Unbalanced tires can give off a unstable feel especially at higher speeds.
Given your mileage, you should also check the tie rods. Worn tie rods can give off a feeling of poor steering response and a whobbly wheel feeling at high speeds.
usually its unbalanced tires and alignment. Try taking it to a pro suspension and alignment shop with a good reputation.
Oh yeah, what they told about your 19's causing your car to sway is total bs. I'm on 19's and my car handles exactly like stock..it even understeers slightly less since i switched out of the staggered setup.
check tire wear, uneven tire wear supports the fact your car might be misaligned.
Check to see if your tires are balanced. Unbalanced tires can give off a unstable feel especially at higher speeds.
Given your mileage, you should also check the tie rods. Worn tie rods can give off a feeling of poor steering response and a whobbly wheel feeling at high speeds.
usually its unbalanced tires and alignment. Try taking it to a pro suspension and alignment shop with a good reputation.
Oh yeah, what they told about your 19's causing your car to sway is total bs. I'm on 19's and my car handles exactly like stock..it even understeers slightly less since i switched out of the staggered setup.
Last edited by TemjinX2; Oct 6, 2008 at 06:13 PM.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
+1 All of the above & make sure they set the right front wheel to track ahead of the left front. ie. greater castor right than left. A W203 must! to stop pulling with camber of the road.
The reverse applies for RHD cars. Any alignment shop with experience of the W203 should know this.
Sounds like you have something loose or worn though. Check all for play & that every bolt is tight. Are your shocks/dampers in good condition? If not change. Also check tyres for unusual wear. Swap front wheels over and see if this makes a difference - even if tyres are directional. Cintoman had a similar problem & swapping front wheels on Luke's advice fixed the problem. Good luck
The reverse applies for RHD cars. Any alignment shop with experience of the W203 should know this.
Sounds like you have something loose or worn though. Check all for play & that every bolt is tight. Are your shocks/dampers in good condition? If not change. Also check tyres for unusual wear. Swap front wheels over and see if this makes a difference - even if tyres are directional. Cintoman had a similar problem & swapping front wheels on Luke's advice fixed the problem. Good luck
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 7, 2008 at 04:15 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
Tires/wheels have been balanced several times; however I am sure they could use to be redone (except a pothole just bent the front Brabus yesterday so its back to the stockers)
I am in need of new front rotors and pads so the rotors could be slightly warped.
Brake fluid is flushed and changed every spring
Have not had wheel bearings tightened, was unaware that was necessary but will look into it
Lugs are secure with no rubbing of tires
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
Given your mileage, you should also check the tie rods. Worn tie rods can give off a feeling of poor steering response and a whobbly wheel feeling at high speeds.
usually its unbalanced tires and alignment. Try taking it to a pro suspension and alignment shop with a good reputation.
Oh yeah, what they told about your 19's causing your car to sway is total bs. I'm on 19's and my car handles exactly like stock..it even understeers slightly less since i switched out of the staggered setup.[/QUOTE]
Tie rods could definitely be an issue, but the dealer continues to state nothing is wrong. (have an appointment tomorrow)
As for alignment, I do need one considering the road quality here in MA but i have been trying to wait for my Brabus springs to arrive
What they said about the 19s is complete BS. This is my 3rd set of 19" wheels (2 on Merc 1 on Audi) and i never experienced such poor handling. The previous wheels on had on my MB enhanced performance and steering significantly
Could it be i need to replace my strut top bushings? i noticed a lot more play in them while turning back in forth
usually its unbalanced tires and alignment. Try taking it to a pro suspension and alignment shop with a good reputation.
Oh yeah, what they told about your 19's causing your car to sway is total bs. I'm on 19's and my car handles exactly like stock..it even understeers slightly less since i switched out of the staggered setup.[/QUOTE]
Tie rods could definitely be an issue, but the dealer continues to state nothing is wrong. (have an appointment tomorrow)
As for alignment, I do need one considering the road quality here in MA but i have been trying to wait for my Brabus springs to arrive
What they said about the 19s is complete BS. This is my 3rd set of 19" wheels (2 on Merc 1 on Audi) and i never experienced such poor handling. The previous wheels on had on my MB enhanced performance and steering significantly
Could it be i need to replace my strut top bushings? i noticed a lot more play in them while turning back in forth
Moderator Alumni
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 22
From: Seattle
w203 m112
Tie rods could definitely be an issue, but the dealer continues to state nothing is wrong. (have an appointment tomorrow)
As for alignment, I do need one considering the road quality here in MA but i have been trying to wait for my Brabus springs to arrive
What they said about the 19s is complete BS. This is my 3rd set of 19" wheels (2 on Merc 1 on Audi) and i never experienced such poor handling. The previous wheels on had on my MB enhanced performance and steering significantly
Could it be i need to replace my strut top bushings? i noticed a lot more play in them while turning back in forth
As for alignment, I do need one considering the road quality here in MA but i have been trying to wait for my Brabus springs to arrive
What they said about the 19s is complete BS. This is my 3rd set of 19" wheels (2 on Merc 1 on Audi) and i never experienced such poor handling. The previous wheels on had on my MB enhanced performance and steering significantly
Could it be i need to replace my strut top bushings? i noticed a lot more play in them while turning back in forth
As for alignments, you should consider the firestone lifetime alignment. I believe its 140 dollars, upfront, but from that point on you can take your car to any firestone at long as the plate and vin stay the same and they will realign your car for free. No use to wait
Trending Topics
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
I agree that the springs are probably not my issue, but since most of my front end has been replaced, I am just going through options. I had no idea about the firestone lifetime alignment, which sounds like a great deal since a dealer alignment costs that much and I have been getting, or needing, one every few months. Ill check into it. As for the strut bearings, I had one replaced because of noise and the car did not improve steering wise. I am assuming its probably worn tie rods or a faulty steering rack but I know for sure that brakes, alignment, and tires all are playing into the poor performance even more. Hopefully the dealer will fix some issues tomorrow and I can then move forward with an alignment, brake replacement and suspension upgrade. what would you suggest i should have the the dealer look at, aside from my issues, since thiswill probably be my last trip under warranty?
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
7 Craziest Things AMG Gas Ever Built
Verdad Gallardo
New Electric Mercedes-AMG GT 4-Door Coupe Unveiled: 10 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
6 Mercedes Models That Did NOT Age Well (But Are Somehow Still Cool)
Verdad Gallardo
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
There is something I don't understand here. If something is loose or has play in it. This should show up when you try to do alignment. The alignment shop should have trouble getting stable readings - especially on the lock to lock & bounce checks. Worn tie rod ends or rack should show up immediately. As should loose rack or damaged rack bushes.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 211
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
05 c230 kompressor SS 6MT & 07 BMW 335i
There is something I don't understand here. If something is loose or has play in it. This should show up when you try to do alignment. The alignment shop should have trouble getting stable readings - especially on the lock to lock & bounce checks. Worn tie rod ends or rack should show up immediately. As should loose rack or damaged rack bushes.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
That's what I have been trying to figure out. The control arm issue was discovered when an alignment was done and the lower end was frozen, thus they could not perform an accurate alignment. Moreover, i have been to independent alignment shops and every time my car comes back misaligned. same goes for the dealership, it comes back with a crooked steering wheel or pulling to one side. i usually chocked it up to poor worksmanship as no one has suggested something was wrong. I know that something is very wrong because even with my stock wheels back on, the car's front end feels like s**t and is all over the road. Every bump or undulation in the road rocks my steering wheel back and forth and the car gets very unstable. I am very frustrated and wish I could get this resolved under warranty, like it should be. what should i do now?
You say that it's only the last 25,000 that you've had the problem? or I would suspect that you might have a bent car. Happened to a friend of mine with a BMW. BMW had to finally replace the car. He got the AA on side.
Also try & get the car on a shock tester to make sure your dampers are OK - both compression & rebound damping.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 7, 2008 at 04:20 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 6
From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
you can check the tie rods yourself. just look at the rubber part of the tie rods for cracks or if they wobble too much. Being in Mass...those New England winters can easily accelerate the formation of cracks in the rubber.
get a computer print out of your alignment and post it, so we can see how your set up.
get a computer print out of your alignment and post it, so we can see how your set up.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Mercedes,Porsche etc
Sounds like you may have 2 problems.
when braking, if you get vibration or shaking,, its cause whoever serviced your brake discs over torqued them out of spec, or torqed them out of order so they are not perfectly flush so when the pads hit them, it causes a wobble.
as far as your bumb steer and steering, sounds like you could have a problem with your steering rack or steering subsystem.. bent or out of alignment due to a bad pothole, or wife hitting curb and not telling you lol
when you go for alignments, they dont check that always,, almost never actually unless you tell them.. to..
when braking, if you get vibration or shaking,, its cause whoever serviced your brake discs over torqued them out of spec, or torqed them out of order so they are not perfectly flush so when the pads hit them, it causes a wobble.
as far as your bumb steer and steering, sounds like you could have a problem with your steering rack or steering subsystem.. bent or out of alignment due to a bad pothole, or wife hitting curb and not telling you lol
when you go for alignments, they dont check that always,, almost never actually unless you tell them.. to..
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Ireland, co. louth
c200k
hi there I know its an old thread but don't wanna start a new one. So I have a problem and its bugging me.... it started a couple of weeks ago when my p/s/f tire went down.
Got the tire repaired and when I got it back there was a shake in the steering at 50mph and went out at 70ish but the balancer wasn't working so thought fair enough I'll do it myself when I go to work. I balanced the wheels and they zero'd out went for a spin and the shake was worse...... went back and put the car on the lift and swapped the wheels front to back and noticed p/s/f wheel bearing was loose so tightened that and checked all the links and there was no exessive play with any of the links so now I'm lost as to what to do its so annoying can anyone HELP PLEASE
Got the tire repaired and when I got it back there was a shake in the steering at 50mph and went out at 70ish but the balancer wasn't working so thought fair enough I'll do it myself when I go to work. I balanced the wheels and they zero'd out went for a spin and the shake was worse...... went back and put the car on the lift and swapped the wheels front to back and noticed p/s/f wheel bearing was loose so tightened that and checked all the links and there was no exessive play with any of the links so now I'm lost as to what to do its so annoying can anyone HELP PLEASE
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The fact that this started with a flat wheel leads one to believe that the problem is wheel & tyre related. What I don't understand is that you have rotated wheels but the problem remains. Did you balance the rear wheels before mounting them up front? Wheel imbalance is less noticeable on the rear than the front & the rears might have been out of balance. How did you repair the puncture? If done correctly this requires a tulip to be inserted from inside the tyre which needs to be compensated for in balancing.
If you had no problems prior to the flat wheel then examine all tyres for damage, bulges, lumps & any sign of a delamination. Put each wheel on a balancer & check for vertical & horizontal run-out. If none is found then rebalance all wheels carefully in both planes & refit ensuring that the clamping face of each wheel & hub is clean & wheels are torqued correctly. If you still have a front shake that is speed dependent then balance front wheels on the car with a finishing balancer.
Edit - if any wheel requires excessive weight to balance - break the bead on that wheel & rotate the tyre through 90 degrees relative to the rim. Reseat & inflate the tyre & rebalance. Make sure all this takes place on all wheels at recommended tyre pressure.
Good luck!
If you had no problems prior to the flat wheel then examine all tyres for damage, bulges, lumps & any sign of a delamination. Put each wheel on a balancer & check for vertical & horizontal run-out. If none is found then rebalance all wheels carefully in both planes & refit ensuring that the clamping face of each wheel & hub is clean & wheels are torqued correctly. If you still have a front shake that is speed dependent then balance front wheels on the car with a finishing balancer.
Edit - if any wheel requires excessive weight to balance - break the bead on that wheel & rotate the tyre through 90 degrees relative to the rim. Reseat & inflate the tyre & rebalance. Make sure all this takes place on all wheels at recommended tyre pressure.
Good luck!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jul 1, 2010 at 05:53 AM.
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Ireland, co. louth
c200k
Thanks Glyn I was hoping you'd reply you always seem to have good advice.
Yes I balanced the rear wheels before putting them up front and while all four wheels were spinning on the balancer I looked for buckles etc... the tyre was removed from the wheel and a patch was put on it. Hopefully I'll get it up on the lift this afternoon and do more looking around I'll keep you posted
Yes I balanced the rear wheels before putting them up front and while all four wheels were spinning on the balancer I looked for buckles etc... the tyre was removed from the wheel and a patch was put on it. Hopefully I'll get it up on the lift this afternoon and do more looking around I'll keep you posted
Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
From: Ireland, co. louth
c200k
Ok I had a look at the car again after work and I found the problem and Im embarassed to say it was the common problem of the upper control arm bushens I must have over looked it on one side
anyway I ordered them 350euros gone so there goes me dropping the car for another while.
Looking at the setup it looks like the shocks have to come out to do the job would I be right
anyway I ordered them 350euros gone so there goes me dropping the car for another while. Looking at the setup it looks like the shocks have to come out to do the job would I be right
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Hang on there one moment. The control arm or castor bushes are about US$18 each. 350 euros 
Show me what you intend replacing.
Show me what you intend replacing.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 6
From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i know there's a w203 press kit, but i can't find them on the internet. But i have seen them on you tube. So i just ended up just buy the control arms. But if you replaced the front control arms and tie rods for both sides...it comes out to be around $300 in parts.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Any competent shop can press them out without removing the arms from the car. I watched my two in that pic above being pressed out - dead simple. In fact my tech left it to general floor labour and only got involved putting the new ones in to ensure proper alignment of the 3 position bolt slot.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,034
Likes: 6
From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
i know glyn, but in the california, most of the mechanics don't have presses or they charge outragous amounts for labor. Most of them just tell me to buy the arms. I know there some people that basically just used a long bolt, nut and some larger washers to pull out the bushings but i don't know how reliable that is.
Super Moderator
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 19,942
Likes: 192
From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
