STAGGERED wheel set-up on the 4MATIC - All you want to know
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From: NJ
'08 E550 4Matic
It's really not a good idea to run staggered on an AWD car. Ideally you want the front and back to rotate at the same speed. You'll never be able to achieve that with a staggered setup, you can come close by running different tires on the back. Use this tire calculator to find out what tires to use.
The awd system will work just fine with a staggered setup but you risk damaging the differential in the long run.
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The awd system will work just fine with a staggered setup but you risk damaging the differential in the long run.
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
from what i read, running a staggered setup is generally bad for awd cars because it causes the center differential to run a different speeds for extended period of time. Causing it to burn out more quickly.
I think it should be ok long as you make sure the outer diameter of the tires are within the factory specs.
But its one of those things, why would you want to force your car to do something it wasn't intended to do without any real benefit and run the risk of having large repair bills?
I think it should be ok long as you make sure the outer diameter of the tires are within the factory specs.
But its one of those things, why would you want to force your car to do something it wasn't intended to do without any real benefit and run the risk of having large repair bills?
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From: Wyckoff, New Jersey & Alphabet City NYC
86 190E 2.3-16v, 92 500E, 03 CL55 AMG, 08 E3504M Brabus
in accordance with that comment, check out the W204 section of this post. A guy from canada told me their C class 4matics come with a staggered wheel setup? What do you guys think of that? Just want to counter balance as I am in the process of buying another set of, you guessed it, staggered wheels. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best info out there. Have a look at what he said here is the link.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/267282-staggered-vs-4matic-whats-real-story.html
please post your thoughts.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w204/267282-staggered-vs-4matic-whats-real-story.html
please post your thoughts.
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From: Jakarta
1996 MB E320 & 2010 Nissan Elgrand
in accordance with that comment, check out the W204 section of this post. A guy from canada told me their C class 4matics come with a staggered wheel setup? What do you guys think of that? Just want to counter balance as I am in the process of buying another set of, you guessed it, staggered wheels. I just want to make sure I'm getting the best info out there. Have a look at what he said here is the link.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267282
please post your thoughts.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267282
please post your thoughts.
I'll ask around in our local forum
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
staggered tires has no issues. as long as they are within 2% of the overall diameter.
you all worry too much.
new C300/350 4-matic sport all comes with staggered 17" tires
you all worry too much.
new C300/350 4-matic sport all comes with staggered 17" tires
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
It's all a matter of rolling circumference of tyres. As long as they are reasonably matched you will have no issues at all.
The TCU/TCM & ESP will mess you around long before any damage could be done by over running the differentials.
So it's an issue of tyre matching
The TCU/TCM & ESP will mess you around long before any damage could be done by over running the differentials.
So it's an issue of tyre matching
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Better turn in on a Porsche. On our somewhat pedestrian Mercs I doubt it. See what others think.
Much of the modding done by people on this forum is for aesthetic appeal - never mind what people say or how much they spend. And that's fine - it's all good fun.
Some of the suspension set ups I've seen, which must have cost a bomb, would have made high speed stability worse than standard the way they've been set up. See many modded vehicles in pics on the forum with the tail hunkered down and the nose riding high - looks great but screws up the aerodynamics of the vehicle & encourages excess air under the vehicle that will mess big time with high speed stability. Splinter's car has the right attitude for good overall handling. Plenty of negative camber & a good nose down attitude. Some even more so = good
Much of the modding done by people on this forum is for aesthetic appeal - never mind what people say or how much they spend. And that's fine - it's all good fun.
Some of the suspension set ups I've seen, which must have cost a bomb, would have made high speed stability worse than standard the way they've been set up. See many modded vehicles in pics on the forum with the tail hunkered down and the nose riding high - looks great but screws up the aerodynamics of the vehicle & encourages excess air under the vehicle that will mess big time with high speed stability. Splinter's car has the right attitude for good overall handling. Plenty of negative camber & a good nose down attitude. Some even more so = good
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 29, 2008 at 09:05 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 273
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From: SE PA
2001 C320
It's all a matter of rolling circumference of tyres. As long as they are reasonably matched you will have no issues at all.
The TCU/TCM & ESP will mess you around long before any damage could be done by over running the differentials.
So it's an issue of tyre matching
The TCU/TCM & ESP will mess you around long before any damage could be done by over running the differentials.
So it's an issue of tyre matching
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: France, Lebanon
03 c320 coupe
Better turn in on a Porsche. On our somewhat pedestrian Mercs I doubt it. See what others think.
Much of the modding done by people on this forum is for aesthetic appeal - never mind what people say or how much they spend. And that's fine - it's all good fun.
Some of the suspension set ups I've seen, which must have cost a bomb, would have made high speed stability worse than standard the way they've been set up. See many modded vehicles in pics on the forum with the tail hunkered down and the nose riding high - looks great but screws up the aerodynamics of the vehicle & encourages excess air under the vehicle that will mess big time with high speed stability. Splinter's car has the right attitude for good overall handling. Plenty of negative camber & a good nose down attitude. Some even more so = good
Much of the modding done by people on this forum is for aesthetic appeal - never mind what people say or how much they spend. And that's fine - it's all good fun.
Some of the suspension set ups I've seen, which must have cost a bomb, would have made high speed stability worse than standard the way they've been set up. See many modded vehicles in pics on the forum with the tail hunkered down and the nose riding high - looks great but screws up the aerodynamics of the vehicle & encourages excess air under the vehicle that will mess big time with high speed stability. Splinter's car has the right attitude for good overall handling. Plenty of negative camber & a good nose down attitude. Some even more so = good
so, staggered setup on a FWD will just improve the look ??? its like having spacers thats all
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Super Moderator
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Re launches & handling vs. tyre size - It's all about pressure per specific size contact patch - there is an optimum for a specific compound. Take the contact patch too large with insufficient pressure & you loose out.
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From: Seattle
w203 m112
Glyn - Thanks for the insightful comments. Im raising the rear of my car to be more even w/ my front. :x I wish I could lower the front smore so I didn't have to raise the rear so much 
That neg camber has owned my rear tires! :P
That neg camber has owned my rear tires! :P
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Oops Tru - I hope I'm not going to cause a whole rash of people raising rears & lowering fronts. A question was posed and I answered it as honestly as I know how from my experience. I'm about to go to a staggered set up on my car but I know I'm doing it for cosmetic reasons. I'm not expecting any huge differences. Regarding attitude - Benz went to a lot of trouble to get the CD down to .27 & that requires nose down - why mess it up? The place you need the negative camber is the front.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 29, 2008 at 02:48 PM.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
LOL...you can have the same ride height as I do.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Old muscle cars were crap. They had crap suspension and all of them axle tramped to a greater or lesser degree. Frequently it paid to spin the rears to get away from tramp.
Re launches & handling vs. tyre size - It's all about pressure per specific size contact patch - there is an optimum for a specific compound. Take the contact patch too large with insufficient pressure & you loose out.
Re launches & handling vs. tyre size - It's all about pressure per specific size contact patch - there is an optimum for a specific compound. Take the contact patch too large with insufficient pressure & you loose out.
on 4wd car you can run staggered as long as diameter stays within acceptable variance. on most 4wd car where they're Front biased there's no real advantage in going staggered. on the 4-matic I think 60% of the torque is still diverted to the rear, so with staggered you could still improve the traction off the line.
however running non-staggered setup gives you the most neutral turn in response even on RWD cars.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
But if the contact patch is too big with insufficient down pressure you will damage traction & develop wheelspin. Bigger is not always better - you reach a limit.
I'm going to use a bad example because we are talking FWD & have weight transfer issues to consider - but Honda's high performance models are works of art at specifying tyres correctly. They have their pressure per contact patch worked out perfectly. Over tyre them & you ruin everything
I'm going to use a bad example because we are talking FWD & have weight transfer issues to consider - but Honda's high performance models are works of art at specifying tyres correctly. They have their pressure per contact patch worked out perfectly. Over tyre them & you ruin everything
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 29, 2008 at 04:42 PM.
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From: Seattle
w203 m112
MBworld Guru
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I have a better example because it's light, RWD & near perfect handling & traction.
The Lotus Exige - don't even think of putting bigger tyres on that or you will destroy both traction & handling.
The Lotus Exige - don't even think of putting bigger tyres on that or you will destroy both traction & handling.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
And remember that modern vehicles are not only going lighter & lighter but also looking to cutting cd for fuel consumption reasons. The same reason that they dont' generate much downforce - fuel consumption.. If F1 scrapped ground effects & wings they would not be able to make good use of their tyres - not enough downward pressure.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I certainly don't want to argue with Frank on his birthday, but this is very much an issue on modern cars - see my justification above. Michelin have some fascinating research in this regard & some good video material that they share with race teams that they support around the world. Don't over tyre your cars. Big enough is big enough from a pressure per contact patch ratio alone to say the least of messing with unsprung weight & damping, turn in etc. If you are doing it purely for aesthetics then that's fine as long as you accept that you could be taking the vehicle backwards from an overall handling perspective. Don't raise the issue of traction control either. It can only do as well as the tyre fundamentals allow.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Oct 29, 2008 at 07:16 PM.
