ichibans13.5

i have been using penzoil platinium as it uses better grp III stocks than mobile 1 (regular not extended) and has an excellent additive package. you can also get different viscousitys for 229.5 and 229.51.

also to the person above whose oil turned dark quickly- yes it is probably the cleaning products of the oil doing their job- but also smell the oil to see if it smells like gas at all- this can also make oil turn dark very quickly and mean u have a problem elsewhere

Glyn M Ruck

Who told you that Group III was better than PAO? It either passes HTHS or it does not.

When you talk about Mobil 1 Regular - what are you talking about 229.3? I think you might be confused & comparing Apples with Pears.

ichibans13.5

i meant the non extended performance which is group IV i believe
- glyn i definatly know you know your stuff when it comes to oil as its your lifestyle and my info is mostly regurgitated from bobistheoilguy., so i definatly do not want to go toe to toe, cause im sure it will end in your toe and my butt

on a side not here is another useful list
http://bevo.daimler.com/bevolistenma...5&suchbegriff=

Glyn M Ruck

Yep - I'm supposed to have live access - Link has been messing lately - Got our Ghent Technology Centre in Belgium working on the problem. - That's what splinter linked above.
Hope you win with your transmission but we should leave that to the other thread.

W203E35

BUMP


For our new members

kevink2

Interesting, that link says both MB marketed 229.5 oils are 5W30.

MB 229.5 Motorenöl A 000 989 95 01 -- Daimler AG,Stuttgart/Deutschland

Mercedes-Benz PKW-Synthetic Motorenöl Blatt 229.5 -- Daimler AG, Stuttgart/Deutschland

------

The related MB brand diesel oils for 229.51 are also 5W30.

It seems 5W30 is the most frequenty suggested viscosity range, among the lists.

splinter

Mr. Ruck:

Your opinion please on the reduced zinc dialkyl dithiosphosphate levels contained in currently available API SM/CF motor oils with regards to elevated non-roller tappet and rocker arm wear.

Helping assemble and run in a friend’s ~500 horsepower, normally aspirated off-highway SBC. Of course, we’ll be applying molybdenum disulfide anti-scuff/EP lubricant to the lobes and rockers upon fitting. Rather prefer it stay together and perform well as long as possible.

Suggestions and advice – at your convenience - will most certainly be appreciated. Kindly forgive the thread jack.

-John Goodlad

Glyn M Ruck

Hi John - no threadjack - This is what this thread is for. Our legal beagle's stance precludes me from posting proprietary additive data which would easily illustrate the point - however - as applies to the industry.

I have attached the API EO guide for your review, ZDDP is still part of SM formulation, although at a lower level in some cases. In our case Zinc & Phosphorus levels have not changed appreciably from SL to SM oils. Most majors were ahead of the curve in meeting EPA & other global body requirements to protect cat convertors.

Remember that the API has always maintained a policy of backward compatibility. So have a look at the second paragraph on second page of attached Engine Oil Guide. Backward compatibility is easier with PCMO than HDEO.

You are right that there are lower chemical limits, but these are mostly achieved by use of GP2, GP3 or fully synthetic base oils, which contain close to zero metals.

Formulators also achieve same or better wear performance by using more efficient components and generally more clever formulation. Wish I could say more.

An example of getting good wear performance without ZDDP is that we can achieve good wear performance in rail-road engines with zinc free formulations required by GE engines with silver wrist pins (the Zinc would attack the Silver)

In conclusion API SM oils are as effective or better in every respect (including wear performance both overall & in the cam & tappet area) than the older specs, SL, SJ, etc. Therefore API SM oils will service older engines better than older spec oils.

Maintain your antiwear/antiscuff regime on cam lobes & rockers/followers. That initial "dry" start up can be crucial to the effective bedding of high performance cams & related components. Your highest lubricant loading & shear takes place in this area.

No need for concern with SM oils.

splinter

Excellent. Appreciate you sharing your expertise.

Curious (to me at least) how refiners will vary their additive recipes even within the same general product line. Attachment shows approvals and nominal phosphorus/zinc levels for one company’s synthetic motor oils. I’d venture a guess that refining techniques and other ingredients are adjusted to best suit their intended use, as well. Tried to locate similar information on your firm’s products – but without success.

Scheduled for another 10,000-mile OCI on the M112. If one were to post a UOA here (or in johnand’s thread) would you tell us if the engine and its filtration systems are functioning correctly?

Thanks again.

Glyn M Ruck

Yes - absolutely.

Glyn M Ruck

I am reluctant to post this lest we have over reaction & stand by my SM comments. For Benz just stick to the approved products & you are fine. No scare mongering please. It's unfounded. However:

For other engines we have ILSAC GF4 to contend with in the US.
There are additional Zinc & Phos limits mandated by ILSAC GF4.

To avoid lower Zinc & Phos then avoid ILSAC GF4 oils

To avoid ILSAC GF4 for older cars, one should look for SAE XXW-40 grade.

ILSAC is limited to SAE 0W, 5W, 10W, in combination with 20 or 30 grades.

XXW-40 cannot be ILSAC GF-4, but can be SM.

Alternatively if one looks for API CJ-4/SM, then automatically you will get a lot more Zinc & Phos.

NOTE - and I repeat - with Benz engines stick to the approved oils.

If one has any minor concerns about Zinc & Phos treats make sure you use a multigrade with a SAE 40 upper clamping viscosity (not 20 or 30).

This should help make sense of the table you posted until you get into the racing formulations which are really designed for off highway. (& who cares about the Cat convertor)

Definition of ILSAC: Automotive Acronyms - "International Lubrication Standardization Approval/Advisory Commitee"[USA/Japan]

splinter

You are, of course, entirely correct to recommend using only the manufacturer’s recommended lubricants and fluids.
No fear mongering from this quarter.

Poured only xW-40 229.5 approved oil into my MB’s sump. Still doesn’t consume even a liter between changes after 80,000 miles. To reiterate asterisks in your original post, AMG specifies an upper viscosity of 40. They must know of what they profess.

*even more off topic*
It’s the old school ne’er-do-wells with whom I hang that prompted the ZDDP inquiry.
What do you use in your classic Jaguar?

Glyn M Ruck

The restoration is not quite complete on the Jag so she doesn't run much. Got our lube plant to blend a few cases of 13% OLOA 4594R treat SM+ SAE 20W-50 with a smattering of seal swell additive to keep the oil inside the British Torrey Canyon & a vapour phase corrosion inhibitor. Line bored to try & ensure no leaks. Crank & flywheel balanced, rods & pistons weight matched. Shake free stable idle at 450 RPM - no leaks to date - a miracle! Pb free petrol valve seat conversion.

EDIT 2019 ~ This was blended as a "first dry start" preservative oil with the engine not in use. Not for running after break in. I'm now running in on an SAE40 SF.

BLKCLK550

Sooo i used 0w-40 Uropen formula as per MB website and Mobil one Webite, now i called Benzel Bush Mercedes and they told me Mercedes now uses 5W40....

Glyn M Ruck

Benzel Bush Mercedes may well be making the mistake of using 229.51 formulation oils. These are for Passenger car diesel with Cat & particulate filter. They do not & can not meet the requirements of 229.5 - beware!

BLKCLK550

So you are saying i should go with the 0w 40 European Formula Full Synthetic?

Glyn M Ruck

The latest 229.5 approved products listing:

LILBENZ230

Yes.

kevink2

That is also what our dealer said. They use Mobil1 Formula M 5W-40, a 229.5 approved oil, in their big 55 gallon dispensors. They use quarts of Mobil1 diesel lube (which is used less often).

Our dealer SM suggested this oil selection is what MB now recommends for all US dealers. They had used Mobil1 0W-40 synthetic oil in the past .... at least for gasoline engines.

I don't think the M1 "Formula M" oil is available in quarts in the USA.

.

havoc_vulture

hahahah no royal purple for me after reading so much about oil.
took me a while to find the answer but as always i can find help in something Glyn states.
Thanks Glyn for being super helpful

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks havoc.

Some recent discussion & formulation testing we have done on the W204 forum & clarification regarding M1 XXXXX ESP (Please note that the ESP is not approved for 229.5)

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...wrong-oil.html

Xhale707

After reading this i will do another oil change blahh

nlpamg

stickied!

thanks, Glyn!

Glyn M Ruck

Thanks Phil - old but useful thread. I will undertake to keep it up to date.

Silver C

Hi guys, my blackberry won't open the pdf file listed in the first post, and I'm planning for an oil change in about half an hour and I'm on the road.. Is castrol (German) fitting for my 2001 c240?

I have been using that for my BMW and I'm wondering if I can do the same for my MB, any thoughts and inputs would be appreciated. Thanks..