P0100 code and rough running now no start
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From: Sydney, Australia
190D 2.5 (x2), 190E 2.6, W202 C240,W202 C43 (C55), W210 E55, W212 E250CDI
I'm a little suspicious.......It was running (admitedly roughly) before you worked on it. Did you at anytime turn the engine over by hand? If you turned it backwards then that may explain it, but thats about it.
I would consider getting a second opinion. A compression and leakdown test will give you a good indication of whats going on.
Having said that, if it is indead a bent valve I would push to have you case manually reviewed by MB for warranty assistance with the repair, there are numerous cases of sticking valves which cause misfires but i've yet to hear of one bending. If you've had services done at the dealer then you have a good chance of getting something, if you've strayed then it's quite doubtful.
Keep us posted.
I would consider getting a second opinion. A compression and leakdown test will give you a good indication of whats going on.
Having said that, if it is indead a bent valve I would push to have you case manually reviewed by MB for warranty assistance with the repair, there are numerous cases of sticking valves which cause misfires but i've yet to hear of one bending. If you've had services done at the dealer then you have a good chance of getting something, if you've strayed then it's quite doubtful.
Keep us posted.
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Well, the car was bought in april 08 with about 55k miles on it. It was not bought from a mercedes dealer which I think was my first problem. I find it hard to believe that the timing chain failed. The dealer is trying to tell me that the chain stretched and I do not buy it at all. I know timing chains stretch a little bit but this is a little crazy. They keep telling me its out of warranty, and I keep telling them regardless a timing chain doesn't fail at 60k miles period. The dealer said one of the pistons is binding on a valve. The car I own now has 112k on the original timing chain. They are going to try and get a different price for me on the parts and see what I think. The dealer said the last time the car was serviced by mercedes was in 05 so this is a big problem. I shouldn't be punished for the last owner's lack of maintenance. I didn't turn the car over backwards at all so I am very suspicious as well. I am glad that you seem to think I am not crazy. The dealer tried to talk to me like I had no idea what I was talking about. I called MB USA and they told me the final word would be the dealer's. I really want to find a way to fight this as this shouldn't break at 60k. What other options do I really have. Thanks for the support guys
Last edited by one fast gto; Jan 14, 2009 at 09:43 PM.
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From: NYC
2012 C300 4Matic
Well, the car was bought in april 08 with about 55k miles on it. It was not bought from a mercedes dealer which I think was my first problem. I find it hard to believe that the timing chain failed. The dealer is trying to tell me that the chain stretched and I do not buy it at all. I know timing chains stretch a little bit but this is a little crazy. They keep telling me its out of warranty, and I keep telling them regardless a timing chain doesn't fail at 60k miles period. The dealer said one of the pistons is binding on a valve. The car I own now has 112k on the original timing chain. They are going to try and get a different price for me on the parts and see what I think. The dealer said the last time the car was serviced by mercedes was in 05 so this is a big problem. I shouldn't be punished for the last owner's lack of maintenance. I didn't turn the car over backwards at all so I am very suspicious as well. I am glad that you seem to think I am not crazy. The dealer tried to talk to me like I had no idea what I was talking about. I called MB USA and they told me the final word would be the dealer's. I really want to find a way to fight this as this shouldn't break at 60k. What other options do I really have. Thanks for the support guys
Take it to an independent. Even if the dealer is right about what's wrong, you can get it fixed for FAR less by avoiding the evil dealer (yes, I called them evil, I hate car dealers that much because of my experiences. My MB has been to the local MB dealer twice. They have damaged my vehicle both times.)
Last edited by acr2001; Jan 14, 2009 at 10:24 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The timing chain should last the life of the rings - i.e. effectively the life of the engine. We have, however, had a few instances & some recently of bent valves due to chain on the board. Also the carbon build up problem on cars that are run on tacky fuel & not driven very hard. The head is a known weakness on this engine. We had one in the family that went through 3 heads in 130,000 Kms. I'm surprised that amanonfire has not commented. He's been down this road. Timing chain tensioner issues are not unheard of on the M271.
A compression test will give immediate indication of a bent or stuck valve/valves. And you should hear it!
A compression test will give immediate indication of a bent or stuck valve/valves. And you should hear it!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Jan 14, 2009 at 11:17 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Our Australian friend is lucky. He lives in a country where you have protection under the law that you don't have to service your car at the agent to keep warantee etc. alive. All you have to prove is that the vehicle has been properly serviced by a reputable organisation. Wish we had that in South Africa.
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Well, I am pretty much screwed on the car as of right now. They are saying that this is very uncommon for a timing to chain to stretch at 60k miles, you think lol. They are saying it could have been caused by the tensioner or a host of other things. They don't have the front cover off yet so they can't tell yet. They seem to want to help me but I don't think they will help me enough to make me afford it. They are saying it jumped bad enough to bend all the intake valves already. I really don't even want the car anymore as I more thne likely can't afford to fix it as I am getting married in 4 months. She owes 12.9k on the car and I don't know if I can call the finance company to explain the situation and if they would even care. Somebody give me some advice on what to do. I would even sell it as is if I could. Thanks
Mark
Mark
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I know that this sounds unsympathetic. It's not - I really pain for you but with 12.9K outstanding on the car, you can't dump it & run. You will loose your shirt all round. Get a quote from an Independent workshop that knows what they are doing. You could probably have it fixed for a fraction of what the MB dealer wants. I'm sure someone on the forum can recommend an Indy shop.
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W203
Have been, on Benzworld.
I have been down this road, blew a hole in a piston, yet when the head was removed it was fine. My car hadn't suffered the carbon buildup and bent valves that others have - I'm still not sure what happened, yet blame the $12 hose and leaking cam sensors for not being able to diagnose it earlier, and the dealer misdiagnosing it several times.
Here's my advice:
TAKE IT TO AN INDEPENDENT.
It'll cost a few $$$ to tow it and have another shop look at it, yet it'll be worth it. I personally doubt the timing chain is stretched, and more likely the valve(s) stuck due to carbon buildup and bent.
I have been down this road, blew a hole in a piston, yet when the head was removed it was fine. My car hadn't suffered the carbon buildup and bent valves that others have - I'm still not sure what happened, yet blame the $12 hose and leaking cam sensors for not being able to diagnose it earlier, and the dealer misdiagnosing it several times.
Here's my advice:
TAKE IT TO AN INDEPENDENT.
It'll cost a few $$$ to tow it and have another shop look at it, yet it'll be worth it. I personally doubt the timing chain is stretched, and more likely the valve(s) stuck due to carbon buildup and bent.
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W203
I really don't even want the car anymore as I more thne likely can't afford to fix it as I am getting married in 4 months. She owes 12.9k on the car and I don't know if I can call the finance company to explain the situation and if they would even care. Somebody give me some advice on what to do.
If you cannot afford $4K in repairs, you should not be getting married.
Another couple adding to the debt crisis affecting us all... yet I digress.
Second advice:
Any used car will break, and parts like alternators/diff might be $500, yet transmissions can be $2K. If you didn't buy an extended warranty, you need to budget for these repairs.
Third advice:
If you cannot afford the repair, finance it. Low interest CC or LOC, or call the finance company and see if you can roll it into the financing of the car and extend the payment period.
Fourth advice:
Save the sob stories, no-one cares. That's harsh, yet you bought a used car without an extended warranty. The dealer didn't make any money off the sale/servicing, the finance company wants their money, ... so your pleas are going to fall on deaf ears.
Fifth advice:
Research your next car more. I would NEVER buy another M271. POS engine.
Thread Starter
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
First off I can afford to get married, I just cannot afford to fix a car that isn't mine. Is that so hard to understand. I wasn't aware the motor was junk before I bought the car and had I known I wouldn't have had her purchase the car. I have been working on cars for a long time so I know what its like to budget for repairs but this car has 60K and timing chains to go bad at that mileage period. Tell me I am wrong and this car was a poorly designed POS. I appreciate the input and I am not attacking you, this car has got me very angry and turned me off about mercedes vehicles. Thanks for the help
Last edited by one fast gto; Jan 15, 2009 at 12:21 PM.
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
Try fixing it yourself then. There are workshop CDs available and even web services that will help walk you through it. Take the head off and give it to a machine shop to refurb. Until you open it up you won't know how bad the damage is. Like the others have said, the finance company only wants the money. If you stop payment and they repo you'll be starting your marriage out with bad credit plus probably a judgment against you for whatever balance ($10K?) remains after they wholesale the car. At least take it to an independent for a better idea of the cost if you don't have the time to work on it or don't feel like tackling the job.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
This really is the sensible thing to do. A repaired car has market value & if you no longer want it you can sell it without loosing your shirt & buy a Toyota or a 6 cylinder Benz. The 6 cylinder models are mechanically tough - very tough & will do enormous mileage. You can have electronic hassles to fix now and again but they keep running without requiring tear down. The M111 was a crude, rough but tough 4cyl engine although it also suffered leaking cam sensors & other maladies. The M271 is a fragile engine in the head area. That said I know of some of them at pretty high mileage. You might fix it and never have another problem. Sometimes better the devil you know.
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W203
Pulling the head is easy on this engine, 5 hrs. I put money on it being a bad head...
Thread Starter
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Not too well. MBUSA doesn't want to hear my story as I am not the original owner of the car and the car hasn't been to MB for service since 33K miles. The dealer I took it took tried to talk to MBUSA but had no luck as well, so he talked to his regional rep for me. His boss didn't want to do anything for me but finally said he would help a little. He gave me 20% off the bill which is really nothing at all. The car is $4500 to fix plus tax then with the 20% off it will be 4K anyways. I cannot afford to fix the car at all. I really need the dealer to fix it then sell it but I don't foresee that happening. I am now searching for a cheap used car for her but I still need to figure out what to do with the car. I don't want it anymore at all. I can get her a cheap car for now and it will get her by. I don't see dumping 4K into the car that I don't even have, to sell it.
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Ok, it gets a little more interesting. Mercedes called me late last night. They want to fix the car for 3K out the door with tax included and if anything else is wrong with it, they will eat the costs. So basically, when the head comes off, if anything else is wrong, they will pay for it. I need some advice and am not sure what to do and what exactly is going on here. Keep in mind, MBUSA doesn't want to help, the dealer tried again with no help. The dealer is helping me out here and no one else. Thanks
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W203
Ok, it gets a little more interesting. Mercedes called me late last night. They want to fix the car for 3K out the door with tax included and if anything else is wrong with it, they will eat the costs. So basically, when the head comes off, if anything else is wrong, they will pay for it. I need some advice and am not sure what to do and what exactly is going on here. Keep in mind, MBUSA doesn't want to help, the dealer tried again with no help. The dealer is helping me out here and no one else. Thanks
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From: Huntington Beach, Ca.
'17 Jaguar XF
It doesn't sound like you're willing to take it to an independent for a second opinion so go for the $3K, it's better than $4K. I'm cynical enough about dealer service in the US to guess what's really going on though. The dealer is "giving you a deal because they're great guys" but they have really made a deal with MBUSA (and not told you) to get the head for free. I hope it works out for you and your wife to be.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Ok, it gets a little more interesting. Mercedes called me late last night. They want to fix the car for 3K out the door with tax included and if anything else is wrong with it, they will eat the costs. So basically, when the head comes off, if anything else is wrong, they will pay for it. I need some advice and am not sure what to do and what exactly is going on here. Keep in mind, MBUSA doesn't want to help, the dealer tried again with no help. The dealer is helping me out here and no one else. Thanks
Don't query why they are doing this. It could be that they know something of the history of this car that you don't or that MBUSA have done a quiet deal with them but don't want it to be seen as a precedent. Don't concern yourself with this. Just take the deal.
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Ok guys, I took the deal. They are saying it should be ready on monday or tuesday next week. They are giving me a loaner 09 c-class for free too which seems pretty nice since we didn't buy the car there. Thanks for all the advice
Mark
Mark
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Good news - I thought they were the dealer you bought from. Wow - they are being decent. - Go well
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From: New York
99 Mercury Cougar V6, 03 c230 Kompressor Coupe
Well, I got the car back on monday and it seems like it runs very well now. I am still looking to sell the car though. Any idea what an 03 with 61K miles goes for? Its an auto btw. If anyone is interested, please contact me as I am looking to sell it asap. The car is located in long island new york.
