Very rough start-up/idle in the mornings or when cold and CEL?
#151
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Thread Starter
yeah, people are just too quick to say "I'll contact my attorney" or "you'll be hearing from my lawyer" here in the U.S. but usually, nothing gets resolved most of the times and the only winners are the attorneys.
#152
Super Moderator
#153
Super Moderator
Sorry - we went over the page & I did not see your request for a diagram - posted it anyway to ask the question.
This is the best I have - I'm sure John can do better.
This is the best I have - I'm sure John can do better.
#154
MBWorld Fanatic!
Short Test - Perform
203-470-19-20 Fitting
Test Program
Fuel Tank Filler Neck, Replace
Necessary to verify customer complaint, necessary to perform SDS quick test. Found code 2044-001 purge system. Very slight leak in system(P0456). Necessary to perform electrical program test. Found all electrical components are working like they should. Necessary to perform smoke test for evaporative system. Found fuel filler neck leaking. necessary to R&R wheel to gain access. necessary to R&R left frear fender liner to gain access. Necessary to clear fault code after repair and perform road test. check engine light did not come back on.
#156
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
thanks so much mang! I REALLY appreciate it. as you saw, this was a loooong thread
I gotta give Jose some maaaad props. he removed and replaced the throttle actuator/body in less than 15 minutes. MAAAAAD skillz.
the car idles significantly better/smoother. the real test will be tomorrow morning, but I think that solves the rough idle/crazy surge in the morning
I gotta give Jose some maaaad props. he removed and replaced the throttle actuator/body in less than 15 minutes. MAAAAAD skillz.
the car idles significantly better/smoother. the real test will be tomorrow morning, but I think that solves the rough idle/crazy surge in the morning
#157
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Okay I have a file with all the receipts and work orders regarding my car. Here is what the one about the filler neck says, even though it doesn't list anything but 1 part number for a "fitting" :
Short Test - Perform
203-470-19-20 Fitting
Test Program
Fuel Tank Filler Neck, Replace
Necessary to verify customer complaint, necessary to perform SDS quick test. Found code 2044-001 purge system. Very slight leak in system(P0456). Necessary to perform electrical program test. Found all electrical components are working like they should. Necessary to perform smoke test for evaporative system. Found fuel filler neck leaking. necessary to R&R wheel to gain access. necessary to R&R left frear fender liner to gain access. Necessary to clear fault code after repair and perform road test. check engine light did not come back on.
Short Test - Perform
203-470-19-20 Fitting
Test Program
Fuel Tank Filler Neck, Replace
Necessary to verify customer complaint, necessary to perform SDS quick test. Found code 2044-001 purge system. Very slight leak in system(P0456). Necessary to perform electrical program test. Found all electrical components are working like they should. Necessary to perform smoke test for evaporative system. Found fuel filler neck leaking. necessary to R&R wheel to gain access. necessary to R&R left frear fender liner to gain access. Necessary to clear fault code after repair and perform road test. check engine light did not come back on.
#158
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Here is the debriefing from the dealer's invoice:
With regards to the service B that was performed
I assume that the boot being torn isn't really a problem. what the hell is the flex disc?
with regards to the CEL:
so I take it that "max pressure loss within spec" means that the car is fine and the CEL is just an annoyance.
with regards to the rough idle:
With regards to the service B that was performed
72694 DUE PER MILES Changed engine oil and oil filter. Tested battery with Midtronics (963L-W16GQ) battery is good. Tooped off fluids. Front brake pads have 7mm remaining and rotors have 27.6mm with a min of 26.00mm. rear brake pads have 5mm remaining and rotors have 9.1mm with a min of 8.3mm. visually inspected under vehicle and found the right side torque strut ball joint boot torn. Rear flex disc is beginning to crack (recommend inspect at next service)
with regards to the CEL:
72694 CUSTOMER DECLINED REPAIRS AT THIS TIME 3.00 Found check engine light on. Performed short test and found fault codes 2044-05 (purge system very slight leak in system (P0456) and 2044-008 purge system no fuel filler cap fault detected in idling speed range (P0457) stored. Inspected fuel sending unit seals and found no leaks visually at this time. performed pressure test of fuel tank and found pressure dropped more than 5mbar in 1 min (max pressure loss within spec). Performed smoke test and found fuel filler neck is leaking at the plastic reservoir in rear right wheel well. Customer declined further diagnosis at this time. Purge valve has intermittently weak pulsations during actuations. Erased fault codes. Check engine light may return at any time.
with regards to the rough idle:
72695 CUSTOMER DECLINED REPAIRS 0.00 Started vehicle and found rough idle. found the throttle actuator is making excessive chattering during start up of vehicle (key in position 2). Compared noise of throttle actuator to other C 230 and found the other vehicle dose not chatter. Checked voltage at throttle actuator and found ok. R&R throttle acrtor form known good vehicle and substituted in vehicle. chattering during start up of the vehciel from the throttle actuator is no longer pressent along with the rough idle at this time. Reinstalled original throttle actuator. Customer declined further diagnosis at this time.
#159
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I really have to give a HUGE HUGE thanks to you guys.
Jose, John, Glyn, Ed, MJ, LILBENZ230, Frank, everyone that has participated in this thread, I really thank you immensely.
This is the spirit of the forums. I love MBWorld, I've met some great people through MBWorld. I've gotten a lot of great help and advice from here as well... No matter what car I have, this will always be my home and favorite forum
Jose, John, Glyn, Ed, MJ, LILBENZ230, Frank, everyone that has participated in this thread, I really thank you immensely.
This is the spirit of the forums. I love MBWorld, I've met some great people through MBWorld. I've gotten a lot of great help and advice from here as well... No matter what car I have, this will always be my home and favorite forum
#160
Super Moderator
The boot being torn will lead to ultimate failure as dirt gets in & grease gets out - no hurry here. The flex disc or flex plate is what the starting ring gear mounts to in the absence of a flywheel with auto cars. Effectively the TC is the flywheel. It will make a noise long before failure but I wonder if all the messing about at start up has not hastened it's demise.
#161
MBWorld Fanatic!
The "fitting" can be had for $247 at getmercedesparts.com, fyi.. not that you want to spend that if the car is actually fine. I'd be worried about a cracking flex disc, though - Glyn what's the cost of replacing that going to look like?
#162
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
what's the technical term for flex disc? where exactly is it located? I've been trying to find it on getmercedesparts.com, but I haven't been able to.
thanks!
#164
Super Moderator
Means gearbox out - after that it's plain sailing.
#167
MBWorld Fanatic!
I was just messing around about the prices, though Atlanta dealers are fairly steep. I don't hear much about flex disc issues on this forum so I suspect Phil's car will probably be fine.
#168
Super Moderator
Part No 2710300012 001 RING GEAR
Regarding the filler neck - If the cap facing is not damaged then the filler neck should be repairable if you can locate the hole or crack - it could be welded (AFTER REMOVAL & PROPER DEGASSING - ALLOWING ALL FUEL TO EVAPOURATE) or repaired with a fuel resistant epoxy or similar. Don't just throw it away. Dealars never repair anything any more. They are just parts changers. It is not a critical failure part.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 05-22-2009 at 06:30 AM.
#169
Super Moderator
I Know Yes - we see the odd one fail. Very seldom - but if a crack has started then it will fail. I would like to know how the dealer diagnosed this unless they went into the bell housing with a boroscope??? They might be talking nonsense or using the wrong term for some other stupid plate. At least they would have had to have the starter motor out to see a crack.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 05-22-2009 at 06:30 AM.
#170
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2007 C230SS; 2014 ML350 BT
I Know Yes - we see the odd one fail. Very seldom - but if a crack has started then it will fail. I would like to know how the dealer diagnosed this unless they went into the bell housing with a boroscope??? They might be talking nonsense or using the wrong term for some other stupid plate. At least they would have had to have the starter motor out to see a crack.
Phil, glad you finally got to the bottom of this. You sure handled it well considering how frustrating it must have been.
Last edited by johnand; 05-22-2009 at 10:51 AM.
#171
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I Know Yes - we see the odd one fail. Very seldom - but if a crack has started then it will fail. I would like to know how the dealer diagnosed this unless they went into the bell housing with a boroscope??? They might be talking nonsense or using the wrong term for some other stupid plate. At least they would have had to have the starter motor out to see a crack.
+1. Not sure if our cars have one, but they may be referring to the Guibo. (Spelling?) BMW's have one. It is a rubber dampener that installs between the transmission output shaft and the driveshaft. It is sometimes referred to as a rear flex disc.
Phil, glad you finally got to the bottom of this. You sure handled it well considering how frustrating it must have been.
Phil, glad you finally got to the bottom of this. You sure handled it well considering how frustrating it must have been.
thanks John!
#172
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
here's an update, the car started great this morning and continued to have good idling. looks like the new TB solved the problem.
#173
Super Moderator
+1. Not sure if our cars have one, but they may be referring to the Guibo. (Spelling?) BMW's have one. It is a rubber dampener that installs between the transmission output shaft and the driveshaft. It is sometimes referred to as a rear flex disc.
Phil, glad you finally got to the bottom of this. You sure handled it well considering how frustrating it must have been.
Phil, glad you finally got to the bottom of this. You sure handled it well considering how frustrating it must have been.
2104110415 001 FLEXIBLE JOINT PARTS KIT, (FRONT)
1704100115 001 FLEXIBLE JOINT PARTS KIT REAR
#174
Super Moderator
I'm really pleased for you - I wonder if one of us would have picked this up if we had been able to listen to the unit. I doubt it somehow. I wonder why we did not get a P2100 series code thrown up for the throttle actuator??
#175
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C230 K Coupe (05)