m271 SC pulley
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Joined: May 2008
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W203
If you have $2K you could make your car a good learning experience:
Kleeman header ($650 I think)
Renntech pulley ($500 used)
Lower-temp plugs ($50)
Larger injectors ($??)
Bore throttle body ($200)
Port and polish SC ($500)
My guess is you'd end up with 40-50 whp gains at the low end, and 20 whp gains at the high end since freeing up the intake/exhaust doesn't seem to trigger the ECU protection (Kleemann's dyno of the header shows gains through the entire RPM range).
This was my plan until I had problems with my car, I have the Renntech pulley and had a custom header.
Kleeman header ($650 I think)
Renntech pulley ($500 used)
Lower-temp plugs ($50)
Larger injectors ($??)
Bore throttle body ($200)
Port and polish SC ($500)
My guess is you'd end up with 40-50 whp gains at the low end, and 20 whp gains at the high end since freeing up the intake/exhaust doesn't seem to trigger the ECU protection (Kleemann's dyno of the header shows gains through the entire RPM range).
This was my plan until I had problems with my car, I have the Renntech pulley and had a custom header.
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CL203
being "lucky" to get 2-4 hp doesn't sound like you likely get 2-4 hp.
and what i quoted explicitly says "to the point where losses exceed gains", so if losses exceed gains, overall you get losses.
and back to my original comment.. i was making a logical assumption based on a question i asked. nothing wrong about that.
i understand that you're trying to sell your pulley, but i've heard from forum members and from cory at kleeman (over the phone) that the renntech pulley has problems and thats why renntech doesn't sell it anymore.
i'm just trying to understand why.
and what i quoted explicitly says "to the point where losses exceed gains", so if losses exceed gains, overall you get losses.
and back to my original comment.. i was making a logical assumption based on a question i asked. nothing wrong about that.
i understand that you're trying to sell your pulley, but i've heard from forum members and from cory at kleeman (over the phone) that the renntech pulley has problems and thats why renntech doesn't sell it anymore.
i'm just trying to understand why.
Last edited by Midnight Koop; May 19, 2009 at 03:15 PM.
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W203
being "lucky" to get 2-4 hp doesn't sound like you likely get 2-4 hp.
and what i quoted explicitly says "to the point where losses exceed gains", so if losses exceed gains, overall you get losses.
and back to my original comment.. i was making an assumption based on a logical assumption based on a question i asked. nothing wrong about that.
i understand that you're trying to sell your pulley, but i've heard from forum members and from cory at kleeman (over the phone) that the renntech pulley has problems and thats why renntech doesn't sell it anymore.
i'm just trying to understand why.
and what i quoted explicitly says "to the point where losses exceed gains", so if losses exceed gains, overall you get losses.
and back to my original comment.. i was making an assumption based on a logical assumption based on a question i asked. nothing wrong about that.
i understand that you're trying to sell your pulley, but i've heard from forum members and from cory at kleeman (over the phone) that the renntech pulley has problems and thats why renntech doesn't sell it anymore.
i'm just trying to understand why.
I have posted that the Eaton MP45 reaches inefficiency around 15 psi and that the Renntech and Kleemann pulleys push the Eaton MP45 to 15 psi. Feel free to look it up online, there's lots of other cars that use the same SC.
Kleemann is going to give you the answer that sells more of his product. Don't ask one manufacturer for a biased opinion.
Renntech stopped selling them cause of the "who's d*cik is longest" problem. They cannot produce a dyno with huge gains at the top end, so no-one will buy it, especially M271 owners that compare pulley gains to that of the M111 and become disappointed.
Thread Starter
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From: Orange County, CA
C230 K Coupe (05)
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From: DC/VA
CL203
he recommended not to put any pulley on my car with out an ECU flash.
on another note... you are trying to sell yours so no harm is intended on your sale... but i feel like some your comments would be like any manufacturers--biased because you want to sell your product. in the end, i'm just trying to understand my m271
Last edited by Midnight Koop; May 19, 2009 at 03:34 PM.
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W203
Did he happen to mention that the ECU tune cannot remove the protection, at best it can do a bit of remapping of AFR before the protection kicks in? mig888 has way more experience with this than most members on here and he had to go to larger injectors as the best solution.
Seriously, your assumptions baffle me, and there's much better ways of understanding your car than being contradictory just to illicit a response.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
hieracity - you asked me to comment. amanonfire is right on the mark and I have nothing further to add in this regard - The mod can be meaningful.
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Corona, CA
03 g35 coupe...........02 c32 Sold
just trade in your car and get a c32 and call it a day. isn't the difference between a c32 and c230 on the used car market like $5-6k now?
Call it a v6 supercharged swap for $6k..lol.
Call it a v6 supercharged swap for $6k..lol.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 461
Likes: 0
From: Orange County, CA
C230 K Coupe (05)
hieracity - you asked me to comment. amanonfire is right on the mark and I have nothing further to add in this regard - The mod can be meaningful.
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
hahah...shoulda, woulda, coulda! lol
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From: Pasadena, CA
2002 C230K, 2013 BMW 328, 2015 BMW X5
hieracity - you asked me to comment. amanonfire is right on the mark and I have nothing further to add in this regard - The mod can be meaningful.
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
Ignore all the crap spoken about dyno testing. 99.9% of dyno testing that people talk about on this forum is uncontrolled in most important aspects. The dudes don't even take inlet air temperatures when doing pulls so the results are about as much use as **** on a bull.
The M271 engine is highly stressed & a little fragile in US spec. If you do this then service the car more regularly & reduce oil drain interval to about 7000 miles.
It's worth doing if you want a little more power.
If you choose to mess with the crank pulley then read my thread in this regard posted here.
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ght=AMS+pulley
Good luck
Guys, it is not that I have some grand opinion that is the end all answer.
Choosing to tune the M271 is knowing in advance that your parameters for successful results are vary narrow.
But yes, they can be made to perform better.
Ed
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 573
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W203
The M271 has a tough 1-2 and 2-3 shift, the car feels "bogged down" compared to the others due to lack of torque. The added 20hp/tq down low makes the M271 comparable to driving the M111 and M112 which have easier 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.
My brother has a 08 Civic Si and its definitely lacking torque in 1st, yet you can rev it high to make up for it for the 1-2 shift. The Civic also weighs a lot less.
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From: San Diego
ML430, Mini Cooper S and Porsche 911 Twin Turbo
I wish that were the case...
And this is on a very sophisticated engine dyno costing several million dollars in an air controlled climate - read a race team engine dyno test cell used for ECU mapping :-)
Getting consistent accuracy <10-15% is very difficult - yes dyno's might have a resolution down to 0.1HP but absolute accuracy / repeatability is a totally different matter.
Way too many variables come into play - even the revered Dyno Dynamics device only claims resolution and makes no mention of absolute accuracy or repeatability.
As Glyn mentioned above "as much use as **** on a bull."
Imo - the best method for most people is 1/4 miles times / traps with the weight of the vehicle factored in.
Last edited by timdf; May 21, 2009 at 11:50 PM.
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Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Bay Area,CA
2015 E550 W207
from what i heard, LET is coming out with a s/c pulley + tune package for the m271 motor. in just about 2 weeks. i found out from jerry at LET, and he will be sending out mine in 2 weeks since i got the tune already. the pkg will be for $499.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Orange County, CA
C230 K Coupe (05)
on the website it says that the pulley is for the 2.3l engine and its the crank pulley...not an SC pulley.
maybe its not up on the website yet?
can anyone confirm this?
tazim, did they tell u how much gain the pulley and ecu tune will get? a dyno chart perhaps...
maybe its not up on the website yet?
can anyone confirm this?
tazim, did they tell u how much gain the pulley and ecu tune will get? a dyno chart perhaps...
Last edited by hieracity; May 22, 2009 at 12:14 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
From my experience it's entirely possible to get a variance of 10% or more on 'identical' back to back runs with or without a rest period for the engine.
And this is on a very sophisticated engine dyno costing several million dollars in an air controlled climate - read a race team engine dyno test cell used for ECU mapping :-)
Getting consistent accuracy <10-15% is very difficult - yes dyno's might have a resolution down to 0.1HP but absolute accuracy / repeatability is a totally different matter.
Way too many variables come into play - even the revered Dyno Dynamics device only claims resolution and makes no mention of absolute accuracy or repeatability.
As Glyn mentioned above "as much use as **** on a bull."
Imo - the best method for most people is 1/4 miles times / traps with the weight of the vehicle factored in.
And this is on a very sophisticated engine dyno costing several million dollars in an air controlled climate - read a race team engine dyno test cell used for ECU mapping :-)
Getting consistent accuracy <10-15% is very difficult - yes dyno's might have a resolution down to 0.1HP but absolute accuracy / repeatability is a totally different matter.
Way too many variables come into play - even the revered Dyno Dynamics device only claims resolution and makes no mention of absolute accuracy or repeatability.
As Glyn mentioned above "as much use as **** on a bull."
Imo - the best method for most people is 1/4 miles times / traps with the weight of the vehicle factored in.
You & I have had the pleasure of dyno testing in altitude compensated, climate controlled environments costing many many millions of of US$ & know the repeatability problems one can experience even in those sophisticated conditions that can mask the differences that we want absolute repeatability on.
Achieving dyno repeatability is a monster subject all on it's own. Just getting clean signals to all your processors can be a nightmare. I'm sure you've been down the temperature stabalisation problems with engines as well - et al - ad nauseum.
Agree with your 1/4 mile comments & even there you have many factors such as, temperature, wind velocity & direction etc. etc. etc. to screw you. But it gives a fair indication.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; May 22, 2009 at 07:09 AM.
Member
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Bay Area,CA
2015 E550 W207
Jerry didnt give me much info, but he just said, smaller s/c pulley + tune = $499 lol and yup for our 2004.5 - 2005 c230 m271 1.8liter I4 motors, because they have a test car thats an 05' c230k sedan, they installed headers and are working up on the pulley, along with that tune.
its not on the site, but they said it will be up in 2 weeks.
its not on the site, but they said it will be up in 2 weeks.
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W203
Even the M111 with a pulley and tuning only gets 40-50hp more, and that's running the SC from 7psi to 11psi! The M271 SC can only be increased from 11 psi to 15psi before becoming inefficient.
Maybe with the header gains are 40 hp, Kleemann has already shown with a dyno that 20hp gains with a header is possible.
Thread Starter
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From: Orange County, CA
C230 K Coupe (05)
i asked...but he said that they are still in the final stages of the production (bla bla blah) so they don't have it.
So i dunno...
= /
So i dunno...
= /
Ask for a dyno.
Even the M111 with a pulley and tuning only gets 40-50hp more, and that's running the SC from 7psi to 11psi! The M271 SC can only be increased from 11 psi to 15psi before becoming inefficient.
Maybe with the header gains are 40 hp, Kleemann has already shown with a dyno that 20hp gains with a header is possible.
Even the M111 with a pulley and tuning only gets 40-50hp more, and that's running the SC from 7psi to 11psi! The M271 SC can only be increased from 11 psi to 15psi before becoming inefficient.
Maybe with the header gains are 40 hp, Kleemann has already shown with a dyno that 20hp gains with a header is possible.
