Preventing paintwork damage & swirls - Microfiber towels
06-19-2009, 07:03 AM
#26
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
I wish I could get the DF towels here. Although I use lots of cotton. Cotton seems fine & the paint guys don't complain about cotton in South Africa. When they talk about natural lambswool - yes they mean like a seat cover. - Wool on the hide so to speak. In South Africa - at least - this seems aimed at the rotary polisher market. The paint industry does not seem to favor rotary polishers. When my Jag was sprayed with Spies Hecker paint the final finishing was done by days of rubbing with big gobs of cotton wool & some proprietary lubricated Spies Hecker compound. Results were excellent.
If you read what I have written on the 204 forum I think all I'm trying to suggest is that you minimise the dry rubbing of clear coat to maintain it's skin & thus keep it free of swirls. I fully accept that polishes & polymer sealants provide some lubrication while polishing. I think the clear coats look best when maintained as close to new as possible & never look quite as good with waxes on them. The reason I like our Auto Armor product is that it was exhaustively tested by DB AG & they considered using it OE. All that blew it out of bed was on-cost in an industry that counts cents in production. Here it costs $75 to do your car with Auto Armor new & it's hugely long life. Ideal for the lazy - Easy to apply - nothing sticks to it & it really protects for a very long time. I have my car pressure washed/rinsed, foamed & handwashed & dried with Chamois - I supervise. My carwash crowd have not scratched or swirled it yet. I enjoy looking at it in bright Cape Town sunlight or under fluorescent lighting in my garage & there is not a swirl in sight after 5 years of zero polishing. I've decided it's time to depart with another $75 for an Auto Armor refresh.
My personal take on what the paint guys are trying to say to us is to stick to natural fiber like wool & cotton & stay away from products that in composition are very similar to the paint.
My post above is from one of your big American detail product manufacturers. Having talked to paint suppliers in my industrial job with an oilco & researching paint for my Jag restoration project - there seems to be genuine concern in this area. It least sufficient for me not to consider it a scam.
I'm delighted with the state of paint on both my cars.
If you read what I have written on the 204 forum I think all I'm trying to suggest is that you minimise the dry rubbing of clear coat to maintain it's skin & thus keep it free of swirls. I fully accept that polishes & polymer sealants provide some lubrication while polishing. I think the clear coats look best when maintained as close to new as possible & never look quite as good with waxes on them. The reason I like our Auto Armor product is that it was exhaustively tested by DB AG & they considered using it OE. All that blew it out of bed was on-cost in an industry that counts cents in production. Here it costs $75 to do your car with Auto Armor new & it's hugely long life. Ideal for the lazy - Easy to apply - nothing sticks to it & it really protects for a very long time. I have my car pressure washed/rinsed, foamed & handwashed & dried with Chamois - I supervise. My carwash crowd have not scratched or swirled it yet. I enjoy looking at it in bright Cape Town sunlight or under fluorescent lighting in my garage & there is not a swirl in sight after 5 years of zero polishing. I've decided it's time to depart with another $75 for an Auto Armor refresh.
My personal take on what the paint guys are trying to say to us is to stick to natural fiber like wool & cotton & stay away from products that in composition are very similar to the paint.
My post above is from one of your big American detail product manufacturers. Having talked to paint suppliers in my industrial job with an oilco & researching paint for my Jag restoration project - there seems to be genuine concern in this area. It least sufficient for me not to consider it a scam.
I'm delighted with the state of paint on both my cars.
06-19-2009, 04:55 PM
#27
MBWorld Fanatic!
Why can't you get them? Scam is a poor choice of words by me. I should have sad 'scare'. It seems that every few years in the auto detail business there's something new that promises to obsolete everything else but when you really pull the curtain back it's more of a marketing than technology leap.
06-22-2009, 06:55 PM
#28
Super Member
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Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL/ Hampstead, London, England
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'84 380 SL/ '02 XK8
Abrading a paint surface with any type of towelling material, will, on a microscopic level, cause surface scratches (even with a lubrication layer between the towel and the surface)
Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% Cotton towel will scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties, that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it, which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint
1.Water based paints
Water-based automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane that has tensile strength and elongation (elasticity) to enable it to move along with the metal as it expands /contracts due to environmental temperature fluctuations Paint is a simple mixture of ingredients including pigments, a binder and diluents, or thinner (in a water-based paint it is water; in a solvent-based paint, it is petroleum solvent) water-based paints are also porous.
Automotive paints utilizing modern paint technology using water-based high solid/low solvent urethane that for environmental reasons produce a much softer and more porous finish than acrylic or oil based high solvent content paint systems.
Using permanent pigmentations and colorants specifically designed for automotive applications (containing automotive-grade binders). Albeit a non-toxic (less than 0.01-percent VOC) water-based paint, there are no compatibility issues with major-brand urethane and polyurethane clear coats.
2.Hard and soft are both relative terms
You can scratch the hard surface of vehicles paint with a soft towel by the application of enough pressure. Both pressure and mechanical stress are defined as force per unit area. These two forces are the subject of Newton's third law of motion; the law of reciprocal actions [: to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction]
How can a hard clear coat be so easily scratched?
Force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. That’s why a micro fine thread that is twice as fine as silk and a 100 times finer than a human hair, in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint. And the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger).
3. Micro fibre definition
Micro fibre by definition (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) is not a fabric; but a yarn, that’s spun into thread, which is then used to weave a terry fabric. These ultra-fine yarns (twice as fine as silk and is 100 times finer than a human hair) are made from various sources, they can be made from many different materials, such as a 70% polyester/30% polyamide (or 80/20%) or a natural material such as cellulose, a plant carbohydrate.
There are currently two countries that manufacture and export micro fibre towels, Korea and China. The quality of these products is dependent upon the quality assurance (if any) programs employed. More so than many car care products - you'll (usually) get the quality you pay for. Purchasing them from a reliable vendor is the safest bet.
Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. However, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.
The first material used to produce micro fibre was a combination of two DuPont fibres, polyester and polyamide, which is used as the core and polyester as the outer fibre. No matter how soft it feels, polyester, being a plastic will scratch a paint surface on a microscopic level, which shows up as towelling marks, longer scratches than the usual small swirl marks or micro marring
The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that it's non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced). The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance.
Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% cotton towel will both scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties (that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it), which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint.
(100%) Cotton Towels (as a comparison)
AlpineFiber3 from DFTowels are 100% Cotton Micro fibre are more absorbent and plusher than most cotton towels.
A micro fibre’s scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.
Theses cotton towels are exceptionally soft, super absorbent terrycloth. The fabric is woven from a blend of micro fibre cotton and Pima Cotton; no artificial fibres of any kind are used in the weaving or sewing of this product. But pay attention to the edge bindings as they can be a potential cause of surface scratches Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester. (For more information on cotton) -http://www.supima.com/faq/index.htm
Removing Wax / Sealants
A Microfiber towel made from polyester/polyamide will remove product due to its inherent properties. The nature of this yarn is that it is an absorbent; the reason polyester appears to absorb liquids is the many thousands of micro fibres that collectively encapsulate liquids.
A towel made from 100% cotton micro fibre with a terrycloth weave, spun with long staple cotton and then woven into 100% natural looped terrycloth or velour, were the loops are trimmed to produce a fine nap (ideal for buffing)
Remove waxes or sealants with a 100% cotton micro fibre towel as a polyester/polyamide Microfiber removes too much product
Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% Cotton towel will scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties, that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it, which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint
1.Water based paints
Water-based automotive paint is classified as a semi-permeable membrane that has tensile strength and elongation (elasticity) to enable it to move along with the metal as it expands /contracts due to environmental temperature fluctuations Paint is a simple mixture of ingredients including pigments, a binder and diluents, or thinner (in a water-based paint it is water; in a solvent-based paint, it is petroleum solvent) water-based paints are also porous.
Automotive paints utilizing modern paint technology using water-based high solid/low solvent urethane that for environmental reasons produce a much softer and more porous finish than acrylic or oil based high solvent content paint systems.
Using permanent pigmentations and colorants specifically designed for automotive applications (containing automotive-grade binders). Albeit a non-toxic (less than 0.01-percent VOC) water-based paint, there are no compatibility issues with major-brand urethane and polyurethane clear coats.
2.Hard and soft are both relative terms
You can scratch the hard surface of vehicles paint with a soft towel by the application of enough pressure. Both pressure and mechanical stress are defined as force per unit area. These two forces are the subject of Newton's third law of motion; the law of reciprocal actions [: to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction]
How can a hard clear coat be so easily scratched?
Force acts through a body that has a surface area; if the surface area is really small while maintaining an equal force, the pressure becomes astronomical and the object under pressure capable of penetrating the surface of an otherwise tough material. That’s why a micro fine thread that is twice as fine as silk and a 100 times finer than a human hair, in an otherwise soft towel will scratch your paint. And the same reason a mosquito can penetrate a rhino hide with its proboscis (stinger).
3. Micro fibre definition
Micro fibre by definition (very small; involving minute quantities or variations) is not a fabric; but a yarn, that’s spun into thread, which is then used to weave a terry fabric. These ultra-fine yarns (twice as fine as silk and is 100 times finer than a human hair) are made from various sources, they can be made from many different materials, such as a 70% polyester/30% polyamide (or 80/20%) or a natural material such as cellulose, a plant carbohydrate.
There are currently two countries that manufacture and export micro fibre towels, Korea and China. The quality of these products is dependent upon the quality assurance (if any) programs employed. More so than many car care products - you'll (usually) get the quality you pay for. Purchasing them from a reliable vendor is the safest bet.
Its scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. However, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.
The first material used to produce micro fibre was a combination of two DuPont fibres, polyester and polyamide, which is used as the core and polyester as the outer fibre. No matter how soft it feels, polyester, being a plastic will scratch a paint surface on a microscopic level, which shows up as towelling marks, longer scratches than the usual small swirl marks or micro marring
The smaller the diameter of the yarn, the softer the fabric will feel, however this does not mean that it's non-abrasive and will not cause scratches (this softness can also be chemically induced). The most important criteria for any fabric used on a vehicle surface is its quality and scratch resistance.
Regardless of material type or quality, a dirty micro fibre, or a 100% cotton towel will both scratch, micro fibre has attractant properties (that is dirt, dust, and various other substances cling to it), which is one of the reasons that it works so well, but it is also a reason why you need to be extra careful when using towels on your paint.
(100%) Cotton Towels (as a comparison)
AlpineFiber3 from DFTowels are 100% Cotton Micro fibre are more absorbent and plusher than most cotton towels.
A micro fibre’s scratch resistance has a lot to do with the way the fibres are processed and spun, there are too many factors to be able to say conclusively that natural fibres will not cause scratches and artificial fibres will. In my opinion, however, natural fibres are far less likely to scratch, flannel or cotton flannel is a very tight weave and it could scratch as it mats down easily, always try to stay with a terrycloth weave.
Theses cotton towels are exceptionally soft, super absorbent terrycloth. The fabric is woven from a blend of micro fibre cotton and Pima Cotton; no artificial fibres of any kind are used in the weaving or sewing of this product. But pay attention to the edge bindings as they can be a potential cause of surface scratches Quality towels edge bindings are sewn with cotton thread, not polyester. (For more information on cotton) -http://www.supima.com/faq/index.htm
Removing Wax / Sealants
A Microfiber towel made from polyester/polyamide will remove product due to its inherent properties. The nature of this yarn is that it is an absorbent; the reason polyester appears to absorb liquids is the many thousands of micro fibres that collectively encapsulate liquids.
A towel made from 100% cotton micro fibre with a terrycloth weave, spun with long staple cotton and then woven into 100% natural looped terrycloth or velour, were the loops are trimmed to produce a fine nap (ideal for buffing)
Remove waxes or sealants with a 100% cotton micro fibre towel as a polyester/polyamide Microfiber removes too much product
An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.
Last edited by TOGWT; 06-24-2009 at 07:48 AM.
06-22-2009, 08:27 PM
#29
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Thank you very much - An excellent post. Please post it on the 204 forum as well.
