Oxygen sensor
09-11-2009, 06:07 PM
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09-11-2009, 09:15 PM
#3
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0 to 5 volt signal. This does not tell you if it's working correctly however. It's cycle time that really matters.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; 09-11-2009 at 09:18 PM.
09-12-2009, 09:37 PM
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I'm not trying to verify it working correctly...
It's just come to my attention that the AEM F/IC has an O2 'skew' feature...
Which can be used to tune cars that run closed loop 90% of the time ... (which typically renders them untunable since the ECU is targeting 14.7:1 AFR below 4500, it will use it's Fuel Trims to negate your fuel tuning and return you back to 14.7:1 no matter what you do).
With the O2 skew system you can:
Install a seperate wideband controller + gauge in the location of the factory primary O2 sensor
Feed that sensor to the gauge to see true o2
Route the analog output of the gauge (which is selectable 0-5/0-1(WB)/0-1(NB)) and feed that to your F/IC which intercepts that signal
The signal has a 'correction' table applied to it
The 'corrected' Wideband O2 voltage is then reported to the ECU
At the same time you can tap in through the F/IC to your stock injectors and have +/-50% control
What this now allows you to do now is read pre-cat Air Fuel on your gauge...
Say at 3000 it is 14.7:1 (ecu is doing its magic) and your fuel trim is -10% (ECU is pulling out fuel)
You can use the O2 skew map and add -10% to it, the ECU now sees a 10% LEANER modified O2 signal.
The ECU fuel trims now falsely go to 0%
You are now running an air fuel ratio that is 10% richer than stock, and the ECU is happy to have you running this mixture.
Now you go to your injector duty cycle map and dial in your target air fuel ratio (somewhere around 12:1 is about right)
You can now tune your AFR on the factory ECU, for your mods with no CEL... and you can retune it whenver you get more mods.
How cool is that ?
This is a 700 dollar setup
A cheaper alternative is the AEM wideband + the Split Second 'enricher' which allows you to trip down 4 independant O2 signals which gives you the ability to eliminate all your cats if you like, and ability to enrich your AFR once your boost exceeds say 5psi (user adjustable).
This however is a much simpler skewer that doesn't have an RPM table so you can shift the entire fuel curve up ... but you can't dial in a perfect rpm by rpm tune
This is a 500 dollar setup...
Just contemplating...but i first wanted to verify what we had stock was in fact a wideband O2 ?
It's just come to my attention that the AEM F/IC has an O2 'skew' feature...
Which can be used to tune cars that run closed loop 90% of the time ... (which typically renders them untunable since the ECU is targeting 14.7:1 AFR below 4500, it will use it's Fuel Trims to negate your fuel tuning and return you back to 14.7:1 no matter what you do).
With the O2 skew system you can:
Install a seperate wideband controller + gauge in the location of the factory primary O2 sensor
Feed that sensor to the gauge to see true o2
Route the analog output of the gauge (which is selectable 0-5/0-1(WB)/0-1(NB)) and feed that to your F/IC which intercepts that signal
The signal has a 'correction' table applied to it
The 'corrected' Wideband O2 voltage is then reported to the ECU
At the same time you can tap in through the F/IC to your stock injectors and have +/-50% control
What this now allows you to do now is read pre-cat Air Fuel on your gauge...
Say at 3000 it is 14.7:1 (ecu is doing its magic) and your fuel trim is -10% (ECU is pulling out fuel)
You can use the O2 skew map and add -10% to it, the ECU now sees a 10% LEANER modified O2 signal.
The ECU fuel trims now falsely go to 0%
You are now running an air fuel ratio that is 10% richer than stock, and the ECU is happy to have you running this mixture.
Now you go to your injector duty cycle map and dial in your target air fuel ratio (somewhere around 12:1 is about right)
You can now tune your AFR on the factory ECU, for your mods with no CEL... and you can retune it whenver you get more mods.
How cool is that ?
This is a 700 dollar setup
A cheaper alternative is the AEM wideband + the Split Second 'enricher' which allows you to trip down 4 independant O2 signals which gives you the ability to eliminate all your cats if you like, and ability to enrich your AFR once your boost exceeds say 5psi (user adjustable).
This however is a much simpler skewer that doesn't have an RPM table so you can shift the entire fuel curve up ... but you can't dial in a perfect rpm by rpm tune
This is a 500 dollar setup...
Just contemplating...but i first wanted to verify what we had stock was in fact a wideband O2 ?
09-13-2009, 09:12 PM
#6
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C230 COUPE 2003 M271
I'm not trying to verify it working correctly...
It's just come to my attention that the AEM F/IC has an O2 'skew' feature...
Which can be used to tune cars that run closed loop 90% of the time ... (which typically renders them untunable since the ECU is targeting 14.7:1 AFR below 4500, it will use it's Fuel Trims to negate your fuel tuning and return you back to 14.7:1 no matter what you do).
With the O2 skew system you can:
Install a seperate wideband controller + gauge in the location of the factory primary O2 sensor
Feed that sensor to the gauge to see true o2
Route the analog output of the gauge (which is selectable 0-5/0-1(WB)/0-1(NB)) and feed that to your F/IC which intercepts that signal
The signal has a 'correction' table applied to it
The 'corrected' Wideband O2 voltage is then reported to the ECU
At the same time you can tap in through the F/IC to your stock injectors and have +/-50% control
What this now allows you to do now is read pre-cat Air Fuel on your gauge...
Say at 3000 it is 14.7:1 (ecu is doing its magic) and your fuel trim is -10% (ECU is pulling out fuel)
You can use the O2 skew map and add -10% to it, the ECU now sees a 10% LEANER modified O2 signal.
The ECU fuel trims now falsely go to 0%
You are now running an air fuel ratio that is 10% richer than stock, and the ECU is happy to have you running this mixture.
Now you go to your injector duty cycle map and dial in your target air fuel ratio (somewhere around 12:1 is about right)
You can now tune your AFR on the factory ECU, for your mods with no CEL... and you can retune it whenver you get more mods.
How cool is that ?
This is a 700 dollar setup
A cheaper alternative is the AEM wideband + the Split Second 'enricher' which allows you to trip down 4 independant O2 signals which gives you the ability to eliminate all your cats if you like, and ability to enrich your AFR once your boost exceeds say 5psi (user adjustable).
This however is a much simpler skewer that doesn't have an RPM table so you can shift the entire fuel curve up ... but you can't dial in a perfect rpm by rpm tune
This is a 500 dollar setup...
Just contemplating...but i first wanted to verify what we had stock was in fact a wideband O2 ?
It's just come to my attention that the AEM F/IC has an O2 'skew' feature...
Which can be used to tune cars that run closed loop 90% of the time ... (which typically renders them untunable since the ECU is targeting 14.7:1 AFR below 4500, it will use it's Fuel Trims to negate your fuel tuning and return you back to 14.7:1 no matter what you do).
With the O2 skew system you can:
Install a seperate wideband controller + gauge in the location of the factory primary O2 sensor
Feed that sensor to the gauge to see true o2
Route the analog output of the gauge (which is selectable 0-5/0-1(WB)/0-1(NB)) and feed that to your F/IC which intercepts that signal
The signal has a 'correction' table applied to it
The 'corrected' Wideband O2 voltage is then reported to the ECU
At the same time you can tap in through the F/IC to your stock injectors and have +/-50% control
What this now allows you to do now is read pre-cat Air Fuel on your gauge...
Say at 3000 it is 14.7:1 (ecu is doing its magic) and your fuel trim is -10% (ECU is pulling out fuel)
You can use the O2 skew map and add -10% to it, the ECU now sees a 10% LEANER modified O2 signal.
The ECU fuel trims now falsely go to 0%
You are now running an air fuel ratio that is 10% richer than stock, and the ECU is happy to have you running this mixture.
Now you go to your injector duty cycle map and dial in your target air fuel ratio (somewhere around 12:1 is about right)
You can now tune your AFR on the factory ECU, for your mods with no CEL... and you can retune it whenver you get more mods.
How cool is that ?
This is a 700 dollar setup
A cheaper alternative is the AEM wideband + the Split Second 'enricher' which allows you to trip down 4 independant O2 signals which gives you the ability to eliminate all your cats if you like, and ability to enrich your AFR once your boost exceeds say 5psi (user adjustable).
This however is a much simpler skewer that doesn't have an RPM table so you can shift the entire fuel curve up ... but you can't dial in a perfect rpm by rpm tune
This is a 500 dollar setup...
Just contemplating...but i first wanted to verify what we had stock was in fact a wideband O2 ?
09-13-2009, 09:33 PM
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The car won't be stupid slow below 4500 rpms ... and then jump out when it reaches 4500 ...
just as much hp as you get from a 'chip' except that you no longer need a chip, you can get tuned exactly for your mods, and re-tune with every new mod... this also opens up the possibility for using a different compressor (be it turbo or supercharger) and tuning that so long as the final result is within 50% of the stock power (so say up to 300hp at peak)...
just as much hp as you get from a 'chip' except that you no longer need a chip, you can get tuned exactly for your mods, and re-tune with every new mod... this also opens up the possibility for using a different compressor (be it turbo or supercharger) and tuning that so long as the final result is within 50% of the stock power (so say up to 300hp at peak)...
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09-13-2009, 09:54 PM
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After much thought I came up with this...
Slightly different approach ... than what i describe before (cheaper and less likely to throw a check engine light)..
1- Keep the factory ECU in control of the factory 5-wire wideband O2 sensor (both bosch part search and my email to NGK confirm that this is a 5-wire wideband 0-5 volts).
2- use a high impedance resistor based voltage divider (you can see the 10k and 40k resistor) to scale down a 0-1 volt version of this wideband signal to be displaced on a 'narrow band' gauge...
except this narrow band gauge will display a true wideband readout since it's really reading a linear wideband signal (all be it scaled down to fit on this gauge).
3- The unmolested and unscaled 0-5 volt signal from the sensor is intercepted and fed into the split second enricher box
4- The output of the enricher box is fed to the ECU.
With the enricher set at 0% correction ... the gauge should read 14.7 at cruise, and at wide open throttle up to ~4500... then as the ECU goes into open loop at WOT above 4500 we should see the AFR dip as low as 11.5:1 as it does on a stock tune...
5- we set the enricher activation point to ~5psi (Which i rarely hit unless i'm really trying to go / pass /accelerate) and rarely ever hit on normal driving.
6- we set the enricher correction to around 15% on both the main O2 circuit and the secondary (post cat O2 circuit).
7- Now do a WOT pull and you should see your gauge read ~12.5:1 mixture as soon as you pass 5psi AT ANY RPM and the car will haul ***.
8- No CEL present, the ECU is still in full control of the O2 sensor, the reference voltage, and the heater circuit... the O2 also still thinks we are at 14.7:1 when in boost (above 5psi), and the ECU still sees a leaner secondary O2 signal in comparison to the primary O2 signal ... so it still believes the cat is functional...
9- What happens now is that the knock sensor activity will be reduced... or completely eliminated now that you are running a richer 12.5:1 under WOT.
10- If you do an ECU reset, the ECU adaptive timing software should go back to it's most aggressive timing table and 'try that'... now that the mixture is healthy power rich... the knock sensor will not activate... the timing will not retard... and the ecu will not 'learn itself' into a more conservative timing portion of the map.
11- with the richer mixture and the added timing you run both a safer tune and a more power efficient tune... all be it at the reduction of your emissions by ~10% when you are WOT below 4500 rpms (negligible on your mileage and overall emissions)
This setup is a cheaper setup:
118 dollar gauge
2 dollar resistor
199 dollar splitsecond enricher
So a ~300 dollar tune for a basic tune.
What's great is now, with future mods, the ECU will stay targeting the new 12.5:1 (or whatever you set it at) Air fuel ratio ...
so if you do this tune on a stock car, and then a filter, exhaust and pulley the ECU will still target 12.5:1 mixture AFTER the mods... and so rather than the ECU working against you and against making power (as it would in stock form)... it will work for you and stay on top of things....
I have a C200... I have a snout pulley and midpipe (deletes 2nd cat) sitting around... I have the equivalent of the k-box (HKS Fuel cut defender for MAP and MAS) also sitting around...
If i had installed all of those together I would be sitting at a nice ~200 hp vs my stock ~163... but I've always been reluctant to boost a 9.3:1 compression engine to ~11psi at a 14.7:1 Air Fuel ratio so I've put the mods on the back burner until now.
This new 'twist' on things (even though these products are old, i was just oblivious) ... will allow me to safely and confidently take my car up to 'stage 2'
Slightly different approach ... than what i describe before (cheaper and less likely to throw a check engine light)..
1- Keep the factory ECU in control of the factory 5-wire wideband O2 sensor (both bosch part search and my email to NGK confirm that this is a 5-wire wideband 0-5 volts).
2- use a high impedance resistor based voltage divider (you can see the 10k and 40k resistor) to scale down a 0-1 volt version of this wideband signal to be displaced on a 'narrow band' gauge...
except this narrow band gauge will display a true wideband readout since it's really reading a linear wideband signal (all be it scaled down to fit on this gauge).
3- The unmolested and unscaled 0-5 volt signal from the sensor is intercepted and fed into the split second enricher box
4- The output of the enricher box is fed to the ECU.
With the enricher set at 0% correction ... the gauge should read 14.7 at cruise, and at wide open throttle up to ~4500... then as the ECU goes into open loop at WOT above 4500 we should see the AFR dip as low as 11.5:1 as it does on a stock tune...
5- we set the enricher activation point to ~5psi (Which i rarely hit unless i'm really trying to go / pass /accelerate) and rarely ever hit on normal driving.
6- we set the enricher correction to around 15% on both the main O2 circuit and the secondary (post cat O2 circuit).
7- Now do a WOT pull and you should see your gauge read ~12.5:1 mixture as soon as you pass 5psi AT ANY RPM and the car will haul ***.
8- No CEL present, the ECU is still in full control of the O2 sensor, the reference voltage, and the heater circuit... the O2 also still thinks we are at 14.7:1 when in boost (above 5psi), and the ECU still sees a leaner secondary O2 signal in comparison to the primary O2 signal ... so it still believes the cat is functional...
9- What happens now is that the knock sensor activity will be reduced... or completely eliminated now that you are running a richer 12.5:1 under WOT.
10- If you do an ECU reset, the ECU adaptive timing software should go back to it's most aggressive timing table and 'try that'... now that the mixture is healthy power rich... the knock sensor will not activate... the timing will not retard... and the ecu will not 'learn itself' into a more conservative timing portion of the map.
11- with the richer mixture and the added timing you run both a safer tune and a more power efficient tune... all be it at the reduction of your emissions by ~10% when you are WOT below 4500 rpms (negligible on your mileage and overall emissions)
This setup is a cheaper setup:
118 dollar gauge
2 dollar resistor
199 dollar splitsecond enricher
So a ~300 dollar tune for a basic tune.
What's great is now, with future mods, the ECU will stay targeting the new 12.5:1 (or whatever you set it at) Air fuel ratio ...
so if you do this tune on a stock car, and then a filter, exhaust and pulley the ECU will still target 12.5:1 mixture AFTER the mods... and so rather than the ECU working against you and against making power (as it would in stock form)... it will work for you and stay on top of things....
I have a C200... I have a snout pulley and midpipe (deletes 2nd cat) sitting around... I have the equivalent of the k-box (HKS Fuel cut defender for MAP and MAS) also sitting around...
If i had installed all of those together I would be sitting at a nice ~200 hp vs my stock ~163... but I've always been reluctant to boost a 9.3:1 compression engine to ~11psi at a 14.7:1 Air Fuel ratio so I've put the mods on the back burner until now.
This new 'twist' on things (even though these products are old, i was just oblivious) ... will allow me to safely and confidently take my car up to 'stage 2'
11-13-2011, 11:33 AM
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Clk 200k cabrio w209, Jeep Crand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, Smart For two
Hello nuclearhappines. I have the enricher in my hand's and I want to put it on my car a 2005 CLK 200K engine M271 1,8 lt, but I want some help. In the manual they have the connection for both rear and front wideband or narrow sensors. The M271 has two sensors. The front is Bosch wideband 6pins 5wires, and the rear is also Bosch but narrowband 4pins 4wires.
I make the following diagram but I am not 100% sure if it is right. I sent email to the company 2 weeks ago but no reply yet. Please if you can to take o look and tell me if it is Ok.
Does anyone know which is the (+) and which is the (-) wires of a narrowband O2 Bosch sensor. The sensor has two white, one black and one grey wires.
Please help
I make the following diagram but I am not 100% sure if it is right. I sent email to the company 2 weeks ago but no reply yet. Please if you can to take o look and tell me if it is Ok.
Does anyone know which is the (+) and which is the (-) wires of a narrowband O2 Bosch sensor. The sensor has two white, one black and one grey wires.
Please help
