Glyn M Ruck

Yeah! It's Matt's way or the highway. If you have an in-town bump then it makes no difference. The Japs will NEVER survive a high speed accident the way the Germans do. I seem to remember Matt making certain justifications previously as to why he purchased a Merc & a BMW - can't "run with the hare & hunt with the hounds"

Matt - instead of arguing please tell Heather why you own two German cars - it will be of more use than bickering on her thread.

Glyn M Ruck

BTW - I come from a family of Toyota owners - I can think of 12 in a blink. They are uber reliable & cheap to run.

Put my late father into his last Camry at the age of about 87 because it suited his old fart persona perfectly & I had to maintain it.

Javvy

just to give you an idea....I just bought a 2007 C280 4matic with 42K miles and I paid $17,500(excluding tax title and registration)........super mint conditon and am loving it....will post some pics soon........

the first thing i did was took it to the dealer paid $100 and got is throughly checked out for any open TSB that needed and also to make sure everything si up to spec..........it all cleared good......super nice cars the C280's are...........happy that I chose the 2007 C280 and they are the closests to the newer C300's.........

hope this helps....

tommy

You're doomed.

Glyn, I would get the Fit, except I just had my crx's shift linkage and bushings replaced, and it's back to being what it used to be. So it's ready for another 177,000 miles. Hopefully, they'll be just as much fun.

Glyn M Ruck

The FIT is a great mommy's shopping car. Heather wants better.

FraKctured

THIS +1

A lot of the Japanese cars, luxury too, are just gauche, look like a video game, weird purple lights, silver junk trim, etc. PASS.

phister

my gfs is250 interior doesnt look too bad... I always like the subaru legacy gt spec B. I was looking for one before I found my c230. I like the interor in them.

FrankW

low-mileage is not as important as the CPO warranty or extended warranty.

a car that's well taken care off is more important. you can tell by how the steering wheel is worn and how the shiftknob is worn as well as the dash trims etc.

you step into my car you would not believe it's 8 years old, but you step into some of the guy's car here you would not believe it's only 3-4 years old either.

as far as Camry or Accord. my cousin has a 08 Accord and my family friend has a 07 Camry V6. believe it or not the power of the Camry V6 is pretty amazing and for a family sedan it drives surprisingly well, but of course it doesn't have the sophistication of a European car or even it's more expensive version the ES. They are pretty tough as well as the Camry ran into a deer on the freeway once at 65mph and only did minor damage to the front bumper and hood. The deer my friend said it walked away somehow.

LILBENZ230

I don't believe I ever said the Camry or Accord feel like european cars. If you buy a Camry expecting a 3-series it's your fault for being a misinformed consumer and not the car's fault. It's about expectations. I never said for Heather not to buy a C-class, I stated my opinion - which I am free to do. Anecdotal evidence about car safety is pretty meaningless, too. Facts don't support it. The older W210 E-class was proof that all things German are safer than all else is just a fallacy.

I find it hilarious that I am "arguing" by disagreeing with the incorrect statements about the Camry and Accord. About expectations again - I'd expect this sort of fanboi loyalty from owners of 89 Civics, not from Benz owners.. but I see no one is immune. I own a W203 and not a Camry. That doesn't mean the Camry is a piece of *****. The attitude that if YOU don't like it, it is a POS is ignorant - period.

Glyn M Ruck

While I'm not one of the ones that think that any Toyota product is a POS - please post up some of these facts you keep harping about. You are going to have a hard time finding high speed data but it exists - tip - you will find it in insurance company data but it won't support your point of view.

W203E35

I made the POS comment but I was referring to the interior. The Camry isn't a bad car BUT it also can never be compared to a German car.

LILBENZ230

I've not been digging in insurance company data. The IIHS tests are aggressive and realistic. As you'll note, the W210 in its early years fared pretty poorly and the W203 and W211 never managed the level of side impact protection you could find in plenty of Japanese cars. I love the way my W203 feels so solid but that doesn't give me this false sense of security, either. It's not going to protect me any better than the 07 Civic Si sedan it replaced.

I like and respect good vehicles, and I have had my share of experiences with these "jap" cars, as you call them. With the exception of one lemon, all my experiences are extremely positive. Obviously, I like German cars. Preference is preference. All I have ever said in this thread is that Toyota/Honda make damn good cars and there's plenty of evidence to back that up. My opinion is that its quite funny to see people who own non-Sport W203s call anything short of a Buick boring because the non-Sport W203 is quite bland and boring itself. Again, my opinion.

Norwichdelta06

you have to keep in mind also luxury usually doesn't hold value. Example The C230 is sportier and cheaper then the C280 AWD. Yet the C280AWD loses value a lot faster. And honestly mileage shouldn't be the main factor. My neighbor who has a lot of money doesnt like wasting money thus why he has a lot of money. He buys Mercedes used with 100K miles are more because he gets them at a good price because most people won't buy cars with over a 100K miles on it. He keeps them to well over 200K miles and you would never know. The 200K miles is like the 100K miles from 5-10 years ago

Glyn M Ruck

In US the value issue might be true because your cars are somewhat stripped out to keep the ticket price down. In ROW no such thing exists because the Elegance is full leather etc etc.

Your Sport is really our Avantgarde with Sport pack fitted. We can have the Sport pack fitted to any model.

I don't see what is supposed to make a Sport so great. A body kit that is questionably better looking. I personally hate the AMG skirt without the credentials, Suspension lowered between 11 & 15mm depending on where you are. Wheels - which I note most people remove & the larger Brembo brakes up front which don't actually achieve any more pad area in contact with the rotor so they are somewhat cosmetic but in excessive braking should cool a little better. I have never induced brake fade on my vehicle even in a pretty mountainous country.

In reality the difference between a Sport and the rest of range is mainly minor cosmetic. Hardly a big deal.

From a handling perspective the pre facelift cars handle better because they have the stiffer suspension bushing. The post facelift cars have a more direct steering ratio.

Edit - Tru's car has the ROW Avantgarde nose/skirt on it - to me that was always the prettiest - Don't know what they called that stateside.

LILBENZ230

For me, and I agree it's purely subjective, the AMG body treatment was the only saving grace for the W203 design. Now that a few years have passed since the W203 production ended it's really only the facelift cars that keep the W203 from looking very old.. at least in my eyes. The 2007 Sport cars are the best looking bunch. The interior updates in 2005 really helped, too. For me, the non-Sport 2005-2007 models and all pre-facelift models seem as bland and boring as any Econobox on the market. I'd never own one.. but unlike the other sentiments from some members in regards to Japanese cars, I don't think that anyone who does is stupid. The fact that I wouldn't own a 2003 C240 like you have doesn't mean that it's a POS.. I'm sure you'd agree.

Back to the Sport..

The 12.8" front brakes on the 2005-2007 C230 Sport has no more pad contact than the 11.8" (?) on the regular cars? Really? How can that be? Their appearance is really an improvement over standard brakes and fixed, multi-piston calipers are supposed to provide more even braking and better feel. That's what I've read time and again and I'm very impressed with my C230s brakes. Fred and Wilma had better brakes than all my Hondas, though.

Don't forget the 3-spoke steering wheel, the (supposedly real) aluminum trim in the 05s, the seats (love them), the pedals, and the different exhaust.

Glyn M Ruck

The 3 spoke wheel (criticised), exhaust trim & aluminium trim etc. is all standard Avantgarde in ROW or you could have as part of the sport pack - some variations market to market. Benz had a different marketing strategy in ROW. The Elegance & Avantgarde both came pretty much fully loaded with full leather, many with standard BiX, Parktronic etc. The Elegance with choice of 4 or 5 different wood trims for the Benz traditionalist & the Avantgarde with aluminium etc for the younger set. Both vehicles were identically priced so there was no oneupmanship.

Then you have the cheaper Classic for the proletariat.

In Europe you also have the Taxi spec with MBTex, rubber floor coverings & steel wheels with caps etc.

This is the Avantarde body spec that I liked the most. I wanted to build a hybrid when I ordered my car with full house Elegance trim but the Avantgarde body kit - The only reason I changed my mind is that it would have delayed delivery & the Elegance does have a purity of line lifted direct from the S Class of the time.





The only time pre facelift cars look really old is if they were low spec & had frosted lights. Decently spec'd models give little away to the facelifted cars. The facelift looks more like an E class of that era & pre facelift more like an S Class.

W203E35

I just have a comment on this. Couple of the members when from regular calipers to the 4 piston ones and really didin't feel a big difference. I say if your going to upgrade your calipers go 6 piston front and 4 piston rear or else it's not worth it.

Glyn M Ruck

Yep - automotive braking is not rocket science. It's basic hydraulics & hydraulic ratios. %age boost if any & area of brake pads in contact with rotor/disc.

Pad compounds, cooling & clearing of dust regimes also play a role but that's about it.

E92-Lighting

yes, its quite important

Norwichdelta06

the IIHS defintely does not do any aggresive and realistic car crash test. I mean look at the smart car?? they gave it what a 4-5 star crash test rating? They only drive it into a barrier at 45 and and gets its side impact by a flat barrier hitting it on the side. Put it this way size usually wins with crashes. I know a lot of ppl will argue with me on that but it's true. Those STAR rating test really dont mean anything unless you hit a car with the same exact size of geometry.

Glyn M Ruck

& you get lot's of points for not hurting pedestrians - In Euro ENCAP anyway!

I'm talking driver & passenger safety.

tommy

I'd have to agree on not really feeling much of a difference with the 4 pistons (though they are much prettier ). However, I'd be afraid of what the additional unsprung weight would be with the 6/4 piston setup.

Glyn M Ruck

Yeah! I'm one of those peasants/Philistines that does not see brake calipers & rotors as cosmetically important. I allow severe black brake dust to encase them with squeaky clean AMG replica wheels in front of them - Then all looks peachy to me.

LILBENZ230

You have the IIHS and NHTSA confused.. so until you know what you're talking about you should probably refrain. I'd agree that the NHTSA ratings are worthless but the IIHS does realistic and aggressive testing.