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Thank you all for quick response. I really appreciate it.
Info for leveling the car in fact sounds similar in 722.6 and 722.9 and they both mention to level THE CAR not transmission pan. I asked today a dealer service person and he confirmed that R class has transmission at steeper angle than passenger cars, however I cannot be 100% sure if I can rely only on his opinion (we all know how reliable they can be sometimes….. ), he also mentioned that he spoke to mechanic about my question and the mechanic confirmed, when they do transmission service, they only level the car, never adjust back or front up or down to get transmission pan leveled.
I was afraid my front engine’s mounts (replaced a few months ago) could be incorrect and basically too high which would lead to have transmission at steeper angle, but thank you StigHelmer for confirming what dealer said about bigger angle on R class.
From my math and physics understanding if drain pipe was exactly at the middle of the pan’s length, the angle of the pan itself would not mater to point correct fluid level, however it is more toward the front of the car, so fluid level will differ with the pan’s angle. I hope there is some tolerance into transmission design that allow it to run at different angle on different cars (like S class vs R class) transmission angle.
One more time, thank you all for your input and I hope someone else can share something more to solve this mystery.
Thank you all for quick response. I really appreciate it.
Info for leveling the car in fact sounds similar in 722.6 and 722.9 and they both mention to level THE CAR not transmission pan. I asked today a dealer service person and he confirmed that R class has transmission at steeper angle than passenger cars, however I cannot be 100% sure if I can rely only on his opinion (we all know how reliable they can be sometimes….. ), he also mentioned that he spoke to mechanic about my question and the mechanic confirmed, when they do transmission service, they only level the car, never adjust back or front up or down to get transmission pan leveled.
From my math and physics understanding if drain pipe was exactly at the middle of the pan’s length, the angle of the pan itself would not mater to point correct fluid level, however it is more toward the front of the car, so fluid level will differ with the pan’s angle. I hope there is some tolerance into transmission design that allow it to run at different angle on different cars (like S class vs R class) transmission angle.
Fwiw, in WIS, I chose an R350 when I got the info for the 722.9 tranny.
For a dealer, I don't see how they can/could/would check the level unless the vehicle was on a lift.
Imho a mechanic would not use an under-vehicle lift to level out the transmission pan. That would be very unsafe. I don't know about other countries, but in America, OSHA would tell the design engineers where they could put that lift with a requirement like that.
Imho, unless their engineers are totally clueless, they could just add a deeper/different pan for the R350/etc vehicles that are have the drive-train at more of an angle verses parallel with the ground.
Having different oil pans for the same engine in different vehicles is common. Same for tranny pans.
If the pickup was in the exact center of the tranny, that still wouldn't mean that the additional angle would be okay.
The depth of the tranny fluid is important, with relationship to the pickup.
The MB engineers would also need to ensure that the fluid level is always at an acceptable level, regardless of whether the vehicle went up/down a very steep hill.
So, if the drive-train is at an angle verses parallel with the ground. Then, the fluid in the tranny pan would be at an even greater angle when the vehicle was going up a steep hill (or down, if the drive-train was pointer upwards).
Also, just to be clear, with the R350, we're not talking about some huge hunkering SUV.
We're talking about a cross-over, right?
So, I don't see how there could be a "big" angle difference between the tranny and the ground being parallel.
Fwiw, I'm familiar with drive-train angles, pinion angles, etc because of engine/tranny/rear-end swaps. And, doing/aligning a tube-chassis and engine/tranny/rear-end for a dedicated race car. Many schools have their Mechanical Engineering students do some sort of car/vehicle/cart/etc during their student career. Plus, "back in the old days" it was pretty much a given that most male mechanical engineering students were into cars.
It looks really similar to the angle on an ML (I have an ML and my neighbor had an R, the R just has more clearance.
Obviously you can drive the car up and down hills at various angles without messing up your fluid distribution. There are pumps that are pushing the fluid around. Since the procedure really calls for the transmission working to check the fluid anyway, so it is more pressure and temperature related.
Your point about the lift being what it is is a good one. The only conclusions I can draw without more info here:
a mechanic would say "that's level enough, hurry up and get this one out you have 4 more to do" (this is why most of us don't go to mechanics.)
The leveling is maybe not that important. (with the difference in motor mounts wear, transmission mounts, different chassis, I just find it hard to believe that "just level the frame and its fine" - if it is then its obviously not that important.
WIS is usually where I start, but remember that is not a best practices guide. There are torque specs (for the front pump cover of a 722.4 for example) in WIS that are WAY too loose and lots of details not addressed.
I'm going to ask MAVA at the "OTHER" forum what he thinks, he knows more about transmissions than anyone I know.
FWIW MAVA had this to say (look up his stuff on BW for his experience, one of the smartest guys I have met):
"Yea, you want to have the pan level, but I get the fluid to a rough level then fine tune it. I like do a fluid exchange since the torque converter will not be dry, and this process works well for all them except for the 90's 722.6's
FWIW MAVA had this to say (look up his stuff on BW for his experience, one of the smartest guys I have met):
"Yea, you want to have the pan level, but I get the fluid to a rough level then fine tune it. I like do a fluid exchange since the torque converter will not be dry, and this process works well for all them except for the 90's 722.6's
M"
That's good to know!
Still, I'm not sure how the vehicle can safely be made so that the transmission pan is level, while still having access to the fill port on the transmission.
Maybe the MB Mechanics first set the fluid level with the vehicle on the lift. Then know to put "X more ounces" to have the optimized amount of transmission fluid.
Dealer and good independent mechanics know "special stuff" like that which often isn't in the service manual/etc.
Also, the MB has a level sensor in the transmission. If the fluid ever got to low (like going up a steep hill), it would indicate that.
Unlike motor oil, transmission oil isn't "a consumable". So, if the transmission fluid level is fine once, it should stay fine.
Fwiw, motor oil leaks past the piston rings, and gets burned and exhausted out the tail pipe.
*I* worry more about someone putting their vehicle on a jack and then getting under it to put in more transmission fluid , than if the fluid level could be better optimized.
Imho, people should use jack stands when ever they go under a car. _My_ one exception is when I do oil changes. But, I don't have to get far under the car, it's not for a long time, and I could scoot out quickly if I had to.
Btw, I agree with you about WIS and the lack of details/info!
My M271 has a supercharger. So, like many cars with a sc, it has a vacuum pump. Good luck finding any info on that with my engine. I see mentioned in WIS only once. So, I guess that I can tighten the aluminum alloy bolts for the aluminum housing to the aluminum block with a torque between 0.00000001 N/m and 1,000,000,000,000 N/m.
Wow, what engineering!
Also, my water pump has two different size bolts. Iirc, the bigger bolt is tightened to over 2x the torque compared to the smaller bolts. Yet, all POS WIS says is "use a crisscross pattern".
Huh? Who wrote and who checked that garbage?
One more time thank you all for your opinions.
I am still thinking how to approach this task. I cannot see definite answer yet and I am leaning towards leveling the car and setting up transmission fluid level as WIS and this post recommended (without leveling transmission pan, unfortunately). Frankly, it would be impossible to achieve level of the pan without raising the rear of the car a way higher up compared to the front of the car. In my opinion it would be very unsafe to get under the car at that position especially when it has to be in neutral for that procedure.
“So, I don't see how there could be a "big" angle difference between the tranny and the ground being parallel.”
The fact is, on my R class the transmission pan is at bigger angle than other MB vehicles I researched. I don’t have exact degree angle measurement for it, but you can see it on attached pictures. (The car is leveled.)
For suggestion about dipper pan, I agree with theory, but quick google search showed that my pan part number 2212701212 is also used in C, CL, CLS, S series. I am not saying in all of them, but at least some of them. My point is that the same pan is used in R class and other passenger cars, which have relatively more leveled / aligned transmission pans with the car’s body.
RedGray, yes I am talking about that R class as your attached pictures (W251).
Can someone elaborate a bit on MAVA suggestion?
“Yea, you want to have the pan level, but I get the fluid to a rough level then fine tune it.”
Also, I agree with you that WIS sometime can be not 100% correct. For instance it shows TQ drain plug for my VIN number and I don’t see it on the car….
Do whatever makes you comfortable but I work on my cars at angles quite a bit, I simply put the rear tires on ramps that turned backwards (meaning the lip is facing the front of the car and the incline is facing the rear, but it is on the rear wheels) and then I put jack stands under the front.
Judging by your photos it looks exactly like my ML, really doesn't seem all that dramatic to cause a safety issue. But like I said, your'e going to do what you feel makes you comfortable, you're under there not us.
Do whatever makes you comfortable but I work on my cars at angles quite a bit, I simply put the rear tires on ramps that turned backwards (meaning the lip is facing the front of the car and the incline is facing the rear, but it is on the rear wheels) and then I put jack stands under the front.
Judging by your photos it looks exactly like my ML, really doesn't seem all that dramatic to cause a safety issue. But like I said, your'e going to do what you feel makes you comfortable, you're under there not us.
StigHelmer, I put rear of the car on ramps, even lift it more by a jack lift while front wheels on the ground and still I could not get the pan leveled. I know it sounds stupid, but I got so confused by that, so I decided to get more info, before proceeding. By any chance did you do transmission fluid change on your ML? If so, how did you leveled it?
DIY 722.9 7G-tronic 7-speed automatic transmission service thread
Oops, what a dumb way to join the thread. my pc had lcoked up the sockets for pdf, a qucik restart and i now have all your documents and ready to tackle this job..
Oops, what a dumb way to join the thread. my pc had lcoked up the sockets for pdf, a qucik restart and i now have all your documents and ready to tackle this job..
Thanks
His documents were very helpful when I did my first 722.902 oil change last summer.
Previously I only did the regular 5-6 Liter tranny fluid replacement not knowing
it had a TC drain plug. There wasn't a change in transmission smoothness. (about 9K KM before)
Just last week I performed a TC flush on my 60K miles tranny.
I can report back that the tranny flush from the TC certainly made the
transmission much smoother. Total of 9 liters were used. Totally worth it.
Conclusion is: If you have the TC drain plug, you're golden. You can flush it all out. If you don't, still do a tranny flush by the cooling lines as been suggested or what i originally thought of doing, changing it twice.
Hi everyone. I'm new to this thread and will appreciate knowledgeable advice. I have 2005 CLK500 convertible W209 with under 50,000 ml with 7 speed transmission 722901 00 082355. Less than a year ago in April a trusted mechanic recommended a transmission flush. He said filter doesn't need to be changed at this time. The flush was done with flush machine through transmission lines using BG Synthetic ATF. I don't drive this car in the winter. In early November I noticed rough down shifting to 1 gear on cold car. Any advise on that?
Also, in the forum members say that the ATF filter needs to be changed at 39,000 ml. Does anyone have any official Mercedes doc stating that?
If it needs to be done, I'll do it asap. My tran pan is beveled at the back (pic attached) and has # A 220 270 09 12. Does it need to be replaced with the newer one?
I see members use different ATF fluids: MB, Fuchs TITAN 4134, Febi, Shell ATF 134, etc. It looks like Fuchs TITAN 4134 in 4 liter bottles is best for the money. Shell ATF 134 is semi-synthetic, so I'm not sure about it. Any recommendations on the ATF fluid? Thank you for your help.
Hi everyone. I'm new to this thread and will appreciate knowledgeable advice. I have 2005 CLK500 convertible W209 with under 50,000 ml with 7 speed transmission 722901 00 082355. Less than a year ago in April a trusted mechanic recommended a transmission flush. He said filter doesn't need to be changed at this time. The flush was done with flush machine through transmission lines using BG Synthetic ATF. I don't drive this car in the winter. In early November I noticed rough down shifting to 1 gear on cold car. Any advise on that?
Also, in the forum members say that the ATF filter needs to be changed at 39,000 ml. Does anyone have any official Mercedes doc stating that?
If it needs to be done, I'll do it asap. My tran pan is beveled at the back (pic attached) and has # A 220 270 09 12. Does it need to be replaced with the newer one?
I see members use different ATF fluids: MB, Fuchs TITAN 4134, Febi, Shell ATF 134, etc. It looks like Fuchs TITAN 4134 in 4 liter bottles is best for the money. Shell ATF 134 is semi-synthetic, so I'm not sure about it. Any recommendations on the ATF fluid? Thank you for your help.
You should be able to download the maintenance schedule from here:
Thank you for link. But the maintenance schedule they have is similar to one that came with my car. It doesn't say anything about ATF and filter change at 39,000ml.
Thank you for link. But the maintenance schedule they have is similar to one that came with my car. It doesn't say anything about ATF and filter change at 39,000ml.
I am quite sure that the maintenance schedule have changed gradually with time as trannys started to die due to too long change intervals, or non existent in the beginning with only one change scheduled? Or was that with the 722.6 only?
So you are best of doing the change before about 62000 km. It can be done by yourself, there are an excellent DIY guide here on the forum for the 722.9. I followed it myself and it while it wasn´t the easiest job I´ve done, it was not hard either. Just prepare yourself and read it a couple of times so you have it clear and don´t need to read the guide while you´re doing it as there is certain time frames in which steps need to be performed.
Tools you need is a filling adapter, IR-thermometer or STAR and some sort of pump so you can fill the tranny through the drain hole.
I used a garden sprayer like this: https://*******/images/WFHQuZ
Good to hear you are doing it yourself. It was quite expensive at the dealership.
I used the fuchs ATF. Bought a 20L as I am doing a second change soon as I did not have the converter drain plug.
This is my garden sprayer with a hose attached with a hose clamp on the handle instead of the nozzle that it came with. Also the drain plug fitting on the end.
The handle was good to keep as I could shut of the flow with that one while I was done pumping ATF and the fluid was heating up.
Thank you for link. But the maintenance schedule they have is similar to one that came with my car. It doesn't say anything about ATF and filter change at 39,000ml.
OK I understand, however the "Mercedes Benz Maintenance Booklet" for my 2008 E320 with 3.0 Bluetech and 722.902 transmission clearly states:
US Service 20 once at 40,000 miles
Automatic transmission - oil and filter change
I drained mine (including the torque converter) and refilled with "Pentosin - ATF, Automatic Transmission Fluid; ATF 1LV; Red" back in August and have driven over 12,000 miles since.
It is one of the approved AT fluids.
I followed the great detailed instructions at the beginning of this thread!
I'm about to do the ATF + filter change on my 2005 CLK500 with 7 speed trany 722.901 myself. Since the mechanic used BG fluid, I'd like to replace all fluid with either Fuchs Titan ATF 4134 or Shell 134. Is there any way to flush the ATF cooler and lines at the same time?
11-26-2016, 09:11 PM
it was pretty much a given that most male mechanical engineering students were into cars.
, than if the fluid level could be better optimized.
Who wrote and who checked that garbage? 
DIY 722.9 7G-tronic 7-speed automatic transmission service thread
