Track duty MB, which C-class? Engine, transmission...?
10-01-2010, 05:31 PM
#27
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Nike Turbo Shox
Anyone who thinks a Corvette has no potential on a track is hella ignorant. And I would be immediately banned for saying more. The rules say I can't call someone absolutely stupid beyond belief if they say a W203 coupe would be a better track car than a Vette.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
I Know the C6 can hold it's own around a track. GM developed the C6 on a track, the weight distribution is near 50/50 much like a most BMW's. When the C5 came out, it was a marvel on a track as well.. In 1996 when it came out, but with the newer cars it became quickly outdated and GM updated all of the C5's footwork when the z06 came out and they did well the car Held .92g's on the skidpad. Think about it though, how many people who had bought a C5 took it to a road coure? It was all 1/4 mile.
P.s. I dont mean to down the car i haven't driven one on a track so I dont know it's limits, but I've seen it run on the 1/4. Thats where it shines.
10-01-2010, 06:41 PM
#28
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Frank! Is this comedy gold or what?! A C320 Coupe as a track car.. over a Vette.. 
Is that spite or delusion?
C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
Is that spite or delusion?C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
10-01-2010, 06:53 PM
#29
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Frank! Is this comedy gold or what?! A C320 Coupe as a track car.. over a Vette.. Is that spite or delusion?
C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
Is that spite or delusion?C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
A C320 is too great either.
10-01-2010, 08:30 PM
#30
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Frank! Is this comedy gold or what?! A C320 Coupe as a track car.. over a Vette.. Is that spite or delusion?
C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
Is that spite or delusion?C280 Sport here is your evidence that you know nothing about cars at all. You'd take a C320 coupe over a Vette as a track car. No one that knows anything about cars would utter such nonsense in public because they'd know how incredibly dumb it sounds.
Well listen to this young little smart *** over here. Calling people dumb and saying they know nothing. Wow real mature. How old are you? Are some poor poor teenager that just graduated from the Honda civic ricer class and now drives a C230K? How is what I said nonsense? I read some of your post on here and you seem to put everyone down. And yes young man I would take the C320 as a track car over the vette. You got a problem with that? I dont care for the newer Vettes. You got a problem with that? You dont see me picking on your BMW 1 Series listed in your profile. You are aware I have alot of Benz experience and have raced them and supported my indi shop with money back in the 80's. I am there all the time helping out and working on things such as Ferrari, AMG, VW and Porsche. So tell me sir. I dont know anything? Really? You got some ***** young man calling people out you know NOTHING about. Just because I would take a C320 as my track car over a Vette means I know nothing right?
Wow young man you are the ignorant one here. Maybe I should go make fun at someone who would rather take a Lotus Elise over a NSX as a track car. Its called personal preferance. Because that is just a cool thing to do...... Most of us are adults here and talk with sense and knowledge instead of pointing fun at other people. We talk and debate like adults. You should try it.
10-01-2010, 09:41 PM
#31
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Well listen to this young little smart *** over here. Calling people dumb and saying they know nothing. Wow real mature. How old are you? Are some poor poor teenager that just graduated from the Honda civic ricer class and now drives a C230K? How is what I said nonsense? I read some of your post on here and you seem to put everyone down. And yes young man I would take the C320 as a track car over the vette. You got a problem with that? I dont care for the newer Vettes. You got a problem with that? You dont see me picking on your BMW 1 Series listed in your profile. You are aware I have alot of Benz experience and have raced them and supported my indi shop with money back in the 80's. I am there all the time helping out and working on things such as Ferrari, AMG, VW and Porsche. So tell me sir. I dont know anything? Really? You got some ***** young man calling people out you know NOTHING about. Just because I would take a C320 as my track car over a Vette means I know nothing right? Wow young man you are the ignorant one here. Maybe I should go make fun at someone who would rather take a Lotus Elise over a NSX as a track car. Its called personal preferance. Because that is just a cool thing to do...... Most of us are adults here and talk with sense and knowledge instead of pointing fun at other people. We talk and debate like adults. You should try it.
Wow young man you are the ignorant one here. Maybe I should go make fun at someone who would rather take a Lotus Elise over a NSX as a track car. Its called personal preferance. Because that is just a cool thing to do...... Most of us are adults here and talk with sense and knowledge instead of pointing fun at other people. We talk and debate like adults. You should try it.
10-01-2010, 11:38 PM
#35
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Well listen to this young little smart *** over here. Calling people dumb and saying they know nothing. Wow real mature. How old are you? Are some poor poor teenager that just graduated from the Honda civic ricer class and now drives a C230K? How is what I said nonsense? I read some of your post on here and you seem to put everyone down. And yes young man I would take the C320 as a track car over the vette. You got a problem with that? I dont care for the newer Vettes. You got a problem with that? You dont see me picking on your BMW 1 Series listed in your profile. You are aware I have alot of Benz experience and have raced them and supported my indi shop with money back in the 80's. I am there all the time helping out and working on things such as Ferrari, AMG, VW and Porsche. So tell me sir. I dont know anything? Really? You got some ***** young man calling people out you know NOTHING about. Just because I would take a C320 as my track car over a Vette means I know nothing right? Wow young man you are the ignorant one here. Maybe I should go make fun at someone who would rather take a Lotus Elise over a NSX as a track car. Its called personal preferance. Because that is just a cool thing to do...... Most of us are adults here and talk with sense and knowledge instead of pointing fun at other people. We talk and debate like adults. You should try it.
Wow young man you are the ignorant one here. Maybe I should go make fun at someone who would rather take a Lotus Elise over a NSX as a track car. Its called personal preferance. Because that is just a cool thing to do...... Most of us are adults here and talk with sense and knowledge instead of pointing fun at other people. We talk and debate like adults. You should try it.I'll call you out every time you post BS on the forum (which seems to be every post you make, for the record). You posted several times in this thread that the Corvette is no good on the track. This is false. You seem completely unaware that the Corvette is actually quite good on the track. This is ignorant. Unfortunately I cannot draw you a picture.
So, as I've said - you've made it clear you know little to nothing about cars. What you do know is that if you like it, then it is the best. If you do not like it, then it is trash. That's called being a fanboy.
10-02-2010, 12:34 AM
#36
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The C230K indeed replaced an 07 Civic Si 4dr.. a fine little car, if a bit high strung.
I'll call you out every time you post BS on the forum (which seems to be every post you make, for the record). You posted several times in this thread that the Corvette is no good on the track. This is false. You seem completely unaware that the Corvette is actually quite good on the track. This is ignorant. Unfortunately I cannot draw you a picture.
So, as I've said - you've made it clear you know little to nothing about cars. What you do know is that if you like it, then it is the best. If you do not like it, then it is trash. That's called being a fanboy.
I'll call you out every time you post BS on the forum (which seems to be every post you make, for the record). You posted several times in this thread that the Corvette is no good on the track. This is false. You seem completely unaware that the Corvette is actually quite good on the track. This is ignorant. Unfortunately I cannot draw you a picture.
So, as I've said - you've made it clear you know little to nothing about cars. What you do know is that if you like it, then it is the best. If you do not like it, then it is trash. That's called being a fanboy.
10-02-2010, 01:45 AM
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
Best W203 car to be used on a road course/circuit?
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
Last edited by PC Valkyrie; 10-02-2010 at 01:49 AM.
10-02-2010, 08:09 AM
#38
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Best W203 car to be used on a road course/circuit?
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
This is the type of post where it is obvious that the poster knows exactly what he is talking about. I think a C55 might be more than he was willing to pay, though. He said it would only be driven a half dozen times a year or so and that the $7-8k price of the coupes was the right price. I'm not really a fan of the C55 because of its lack of a proper manual transmission but I do think C55 > C63.
Otherwise.. "Age does not always bring wisdom. Sometimes age comes alone."
10-02-2010, 11:20 AM
#39
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Informative post! This got me, along with another post on the PeachTree forums Performance Paddock section suggesting I start out with a 2600 lbs 190, about how much these cars actually weigh. Based on a quick research on EU 92/21 weight standards has been in effect since 1992. So I might question the actual weight of the 190 back in 1986 or just reduced the weight added for post EU 92/21 cars.
The biggest drawback for the C-AMG with any motor is weight. The 3280 lbs of the coupe minus EU 92/21 is right at 3020+ lbs without fuel, person or luggage. And you know what weight does to a car on the road course or auto cross. It can be less costly to add power than it is to reduce weight.
https://mbworld.org/forums/792187-post6.html
Got me thinking.
The biggest drawback for the C-AMG with any motor is weight. The 3280 lbs of the coupe minus EU 92/21 is right at 3020+ lbs without fuel, person or luggage. And you know what weight does to a car on the road course or auto cross. It can be less costly to add power than it is to reduce weight.
https://mbworld.org/forums/792187-post6.html
Got me thinking.
Best W203 car to be used on a road course/circuit?
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
That depends on what your priorities are. If the lowest laptimes are your priority (ie you want to go FAST), then the C55 AMG is the best bet. In stock form, it is the best handling W203 car with the highest skidpad grip and slalom speeds compared to the C32 AMG, C350 Sport Sedan, or C320 Sport Coupe. It also has the fastest acceleration (comparable to the C32 AMG). It is the only W203 car which has a proper "M"anual mode in its AMG Speedshift transmission which allows for complete control of the gear selection, so there will never be any unexpected downshifting (even with kickdown) when throttling out of corners and no upshifting even if you bounce off the rev limiter. You choose a gear, and it will remain in that gear, just like a manual transmission. It also has the best calibrated ESP system for spirited driving with an electronic system to try to mimic a LSD when you press ESP "off" (like the 135i). All of this should be of no surprise because the C55 was the AMG's best and final attempt to make a competitor for the E46 M3, and it succeeded to an extent as it is the C-AMG car that comes closest to matching the track pace of the M3 of its time (E46). Even the C63 falls further behind in terms of track pace when compared to its M3 competitor (E90/E92).
If your priority is to have some fun and not worry about laptimes, then I agree that the C320 Sport Coupe with a stick shift may be the best ticket. It will feel lighter and more "tossable" than the C32/C55, and you can get it with a stick shift. However, try your best to get a facelifted 2005 model. The 2005 C320 Sport Coupe has the benefit of the Direct Control upgrades to the suspension/steering that was bestowed upon all the facelifted W203 C-class cars. This includes newer front and rear axle bearings, re-calibrated stiffer sports suspension, wider front track, more direct steering ratio, and revised manual transmission with direct rod linkage and shorter shift travel. Perhaps on a short autocross (where there are no significant straights), it may have a chance of keeping up with the C55 AMG.
If you do get a C320 Sport Coupe as a track car, it makes sense to change the suspension, upgrade the brakes, and get light weight rims and sticky tires. If your budget allows, add a Kleeman supercharger......then you will have a more legitimate beast which may compete with the C55's and M3's out there.
Last edited by Norm C32; 10-02-2010 at 06:04 PM.
10-02-2010, 11:21 AM
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C55 AMG, 135i, 911 GT3, GLE43 AMG
Well, that's probably not true from most people's perspective.
The C63 is acclerates faster, and handles better than the C55.....there can be no dispute there when you look at objective test numbers, including laptimes. But that's expected, as every newer generation car performs better than its predecessor.
My point is that according to laptimes based on head to head magazine comparisons on tracks, the gap between the C63 and E90/E92 M3 has INCREASED significantly compared to the very small gap which existed between the C55 and E46 M3.
In other words, this is what happened in terms of laptimes on a track:
C63 > C55, but the E90 M3 >> E46 M3........relatively speaking.
The other thing (and probably more important thing for most people) is that AMG made the C63 a much more "visceral" driving experience compared to all previous C-AMG cars. Even in stock form, the noise from the engine and exhaust totally make the C55 sound tame. The C63's steering feel has been praised much more than the C55. The automatic throttle blips on downshifts adds to the subjective driving experience too. Obviously the power and higher reving nature of the 6.2L V8 which provides much more torque is something you "feel" very easily.
I love my C55, but I think the only thing you can argue about that makes the C55 better than the C63 is if you really don't like the styling/aggressive look of the C63. The C55 is far more of a stealth ship with its relatively non-aggressive bodykit. And the only other thing is that the C55 is slightly more comfortable than the C63 on the streets.
The C63 is acclerates faster, and handles better than the C55.....there can be no dispute there when you look at objective test numbers, including laptimes. But that's expected, as every newer generation car performs better than its predecessor.
My point is that according to laptimes based on head to head magazine comparisons on tracks, the gap between the C63 and E90/E92 M3 has INCREASED significantly compared to the very small gap which existed between the C55 and E46 M3.
In other words, this is what happened in terms of laptimes on a track:
C63 > C55, but the E90 M3 >> E46 M3........relatively speaking.
The other thing (and probably more important thing for most people) is that AMG made the C63 a much more "visceral" driving experience compared to all previous C-AMG cars. Even in stock form, the noise from the engine and exhaust totally make the C55 sound tame. The C63's steering feel has been praised much more than the C55. The automatic throttle blips on downshifts adds to the subjective driving experience too. Obviously the power and higher reving nature of the 6.2L V8 which provides much more torque is something you "feel" very easily.
I love my C55, but I think the only thing you can argue about that makes the C55 better than the C63 is if you really don't like the styling/aggressive look of the C63. The C55 is far more of a stealth ship with its relatively non-aggressive bodykit. And the only other thing is that the C55 is slightly more comfortable than the C63 on the streets.
Last edited by PC Valkyrie; 10-02-2010 at 11:23 AM.
10-02-2010, 11:33 AM
#41
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Informative post! This got me, along with another post on the PeachTree forums Performance Paddock section suggesting I start out with a 2600 lbs 190, about how much these cars actually weigh. Based on a quick research on EU 92/21 weight standards has been in effect since 1992. So I might question the actual weight of the 190 back in 1986 or just reduced the weight added for post EU 92/21 cars.
The biggest drawback for the C-AMG with any motor is weight. The 3280 lbs of the coupe minus EU 92/21 is right at 3100+ lbs. And you know what weight does to a car on the road course or auto cross. It can be less costly to add power than it is to reduce weight.
https://mbworld.org/forums/792187-post6.html
Got me thinking.
The biggest drawback for the C-AMG with any motor is weight. The 3280 lbs of the coupe minus EU 92/21 is right at 3100+ lbs. And you know what weight does to a car on the road course or auto cross. It can be less costly to add power than it is to reduce weight.
https://mbworld.org/forums/792187-post6.html
Got me thinking.
Talk to them about their 190E and what they use. They just raced at Star Fest last week and have the videos uploaded to Facebook and Youtube.
10-02-2010, 02:44 PM
#44
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, that's probably not true from most people's perspective.
The C63 is acclerates faster, and handles better than the C55.....there can be no dispute there when you look at objective test numbers, including laptimes. But that's expected, as every newer generation car performs better than its predecessor.
My point is that according to laptimes based on head to head magazine comparisons on tracks, the gap between the C63 and E90/E92 M3 has INCREASED significantly compared to the very small gap which existed between the C55 and E46 M3.
In other words, this is what happened in terms of laptimes on a track:
C63 > C55, but the E90 M3 >> E46 M3........relatively speaking.
The other thing (and probably more important thing for most people) is that AMG made the C63 a much more "visceral" driving experience compared to all previous C-AMG cars. Even in stock form, the noise from the engine and exhaust totally make the C55 sound tame. The C63's steering feel has been praised much more than the C55. The automatic throttle blips on downshifts adds to the subjective driving experience too. Obviously the power and higher reving nature of the 6.2L V8 which provides much more torque is something you "feel" very easily.
I love my C55, but I think the only thing you can argue about that makes the C55 better than the C63 is if you really don't like the styling/aggressive look of the C63. The C55 is far more of a stealth ship with its relatively non-aggressive bodykit. And the only other thing is that the C55 is slightly more comfortable than the C63 on the streets.
The C63 is acclerates faster, and handles better than the C55.....there can be no dispute there when you look at objective test numbers, including laptimes. But that's expected, as every newer generation car performs better than its predecessor.
My point is that according to laptimes based on head to head magazine comparisons on tracks, the gap between the C63 and E90/E92 M3 has INCREASED significantly compared to the very small gap which existed between the C55 and E46 M3.
In other words, this is what happened in terms of laptimes on a track:
C63 > C55, but the E90 M3 >> E46 M3........relatively speaking.
The other thing (and probably more important thing for most people) is that AMG made the C63 a much more "visceral" driving experience compared to all previous C-AMG cars. Even in stock form, the noise from the engine and exhaust totally make the C55 sound tame. The C63's steering feel has been praised much more than the C55. The automatic throttle blips on downshifts adds to the subjective driving experience too. Obviously the power and higher reving nature of the 6.2L V8 which provides much more torque is something you "feel" very easily.
I love my C55, but I think the only thing you can argue about that makes the C55 better than the C63 is if you really don't like the styling/aggressive look of the C63. The C55 is far more of a stealth ship with its relatively non-aggressive bodykit. And the only other thing is that the C55 is slightly more comfortable than the C63 on the streets.
10-02-2010, 04:05 PM
#45
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True, I was merely stating my opinion. I absolutely hate the C63. I think it looks ridiculous and cannot fathom why anyone picks the C63 over the new M3. I realize the C63 has a lot of good points it just isn't the car for me. I never drive on a track so if I were going to buy an AMG C-class the C55 would make the most sense. I like its reserved look and as you said more comfortable nature.
10-02-2010, 06:11 PM
#47
Super Moderator
He also said it had a "wonderful" engine & loved driving it. May's dislike of the C63 is asthetic/cosmetic as is mine.
To drive - it is fantastic as long as one is not stupid. It does not need all it's power apart from in a straight line. In the hands of a good driver that understands this it is great.
It is cosmetically awful.
To drive - it is fantastic as long as one is not stupid. It does not need all it's power apart from in a straight line. In the hands of a good driver that understands this it is great.
It is cosmetically awful.
10-02-2010, 06:34 PM
#48
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ex-C32
10-02-2010, 09:51 PM
#49
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'02 C230 Coupe (Me) '03 SLK320 6MT (Wife)
For my non-useful post: This has been an interesting thread to read, watching everyone's opinions. Considering I have not driven a Vette of any year, Porsche of any year, nor a C32/55/63 I really can't comment much.
I can see how the 320/6sp drive train (my wife's SLK) in the Coupe would be a lot of fun. It would haul a set of tires, and be a MB, which are the two qualifications the OP needed. Since I have never tracked a car and my only comparison is what I've done at work with a Crown Vic (LOL) I am so under qualified to make a suggestion other than that observation.
Just to stir the pot, I really do *like* the C63, even though it is well out of my range at the current time. I like it cosmetically, acoustically and mechanically - I really can't think of much about it I don't like.
I can see how the 320/6sp drive train (my wife's SLK) in the Coupe would be a lot of fun. It would haul a set of tires, and be a MB, which are the two qualifications the OP needed. Since I have never tracked a car and my only comparison is what I've done at work with a Crown Vic (LOL) I am so under qualified to make a suggestion other than that observation.
Just to stir the pot, I really do *like* the C63, even though it is well out of my range at the current time. I like it cosmetically, acoustically and mechanically - I really can't think of much about it I don't like.
Last edited by MW_ATL; 10-02-2010 at 09:54 PM.
