Track duty MB, which C-class? Engine, transmission...?
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ex-C32
Track duty MB, which C-class? Engine, transmission...?
Previously owned 2002 C32 AMG and enjoyed doing MBCA track events. Went to the V8 side with C5 Corvette,05 GTO, and CTS-V and wanted to pick a competitive car for MBCA club events.
Auto crossing and road course show the heavy MB products achilles heel is weight and I like the manual transmission for mostly track duty car. The lightest late model is the C230 Coupe and has manual as an option with around 3300 lbs with no options. Priced right for a car to be driven half dozen times annually well under $7-8K. This would be unmodified stock class.
The second option would to go MBCA modified class. The C32 is heavy at around 3600 lbs for US optioned compared to the Coupe with room to modified for power and handling for just over $10K. Or modify a C230 Coupe as it's under powered and keep the manual trans or just add a C32 motor to it for a C32 Coupe, C32 engine can be had for under $3500. Or buy a C320 Coupe and add power adder but would have automatic trans but would be lighter than the C32 with less weight.
Mid-Ohio MBCA is in May 2011.
Auto crossing and road course show the heavy MB products achilles heel is weight and I like the manual transmission for mostly track duty car. The lightest late model is the C230 Coupe and has manual as an option with around 3300 lbs with no options. Priced right for a car to be driven half dozen times annually well under $7-8K. This would be unmodified stock class.
The second option would to go MBCA modified class. The C32 is heavy at around 3600 lbs for US optioned compared to the Coupe with room to modified for power and handling for just over $10K. Or modify a C230 Coupe as it's under powered and keep the manual trans or just add a C32 motor to it for a C32 Coupe, C32 engine can be had for under $3500. Or buy a C320 Coupe and add power adder but would have automatic trans but would be lighter than the C32 with less weight.
Mid-Ohio MBCA is in May 2011.
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The C230 would make the most sense. A 2002 model with the M111 and a 6MT. The 2003-2005 coupes have the weaker but more refined M271, but you don't care about refinement in this case.
Don't bother with the C320. 215hp is pathetic for a V6 of that size and it just adds weight and takes the manual transmission away.
The C32 would be the most powerful one, obviously. Stupid Mercedes for not offering manual transmissions in the sportiest models. The C32 might battle its weight in some corners but should more than make up in the straights.
Don't bother with the C320. 215hp is pathetic for a V6 of that size and it just adds weight and takes the manual transmission away.
The C32 would be the most powerful one, obviously. Stupid Mercedes for not offering manual transmissions in the sportiest models. The C32 might battle its weight in some corners but should more than make up in the straights.
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2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
A C320 coupe in manual would be the best thing of what you've mentioned, though good luck finding one. Though my money would be on a SLK320 with a manny, especially the later ones with the improved stick. However, if you're going to mod it (and not concerned about SCCA classing, for example), a M111-equipped C230 coupe with a pulley would outperform the 320.
I've autoxed my 2002 Ccoupe when it was in stock form. Was like kissing your sister, honestly. ESP is tricky; I found the best thing was turning it off at the dash - completely on, and it kept controlling itself, and in dyno mode, it was too willing to go wild.
I'd just take the V and tape a Benz badge to the front.
I've autoxed my 2002 Ccoupe when it was in stock form. Was like kissing your sister, honestly. ESP is tricky; I found the best thing was turning it off at the dash - completely on, and it kept controlling itself, and in dyno mode, it was too willing to go wild.
I'd just take the V and tape a Benz badge to the front.
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From: Ashland, Ohio
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I've got a 300+ whp 2800 Saturn Sky for SCCA SSM but need a back seat to haul race rubber.
Yeah, u'm familiar with the dyno-mode in the C32. Just got to watch the inside tire coming out of turns.
Thanks for the comments.
Yeah, u'm familiar with the dyno-mode in the C32. Just got to watch the inside tire coming out of turns.
Thanks for the comments.
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hey norm...welcome back. LOL
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 30, 2010 at 02:09 AM.
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late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
& it will rev - you need revs on track!
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Sep 30, 2010 at 07:58 AM.
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Out Of Control!!
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2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
This will limit even further, but if you can get a C320 ccoupe without the panorama roof (if they made them), that will serve you better. Those things are heavy, especially considering it's raising your cog slightly as well.
I'd like to see a Smart with flared fenders and a rollcage out there on an autox course, though.
I'd like to see a Smart with flared fenders and a rollcage out there on an autox course, though.
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Thread Starter
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From: Ashland, Ohio
ex-C32
hey norm...welcome back. LOL
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
You could probably go fi on a 320, but that would be a ton of money.
Your best bet would probably be, if you want max hp/lb, to get a 2002 coupe with no options, get a pulley, a tune, headers, exhaust, cats, and then work on the suspension, rims, weight removal, etc.
Unless you're talking 5 digits on engine mods alone, the M111 would be the better option, if you're going to mod, imho.
Your best bet would probably be, if you want max hp/lb, to get a 2002 coupe with no options, get a pulley, a tune, headers, exhaust, cats, and then work on the suspension, rims, weight removal, etc.
Unless you're talking 5 digits on engine mods alone, the M111 would be the better option, if you're going to mod, imho.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The M111 can be made to produce prodigious power. To really achieve this it needs to be made to rev, which it is reluctant to. New rods, crank & a decent head job can improve this.
Would love to engineer a blower onto the Cosworth head & fit that..
Would love to engineer a blower onto the Cosworth head & fit that..
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While I agree with you that BMW > Mercedes in a track environment you didn't fully read the thread and thus the advice is worthless. It HAS to be a Benz for what he wants to do with it.
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Thanks, Matt - I was trying to figure out how to say that.
Not to mention the fact that every single car Norm listed in his stable could kick the a$$ of a 330i without even trying in a track environment as well.
Not to mention the fact that every single car Norm listed in his stable could kick the a$$ of a 330i without even trying in a track environment as well.
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ex-C32
The 05 GTO was 1 second faster than the V at Nelson Ledges Road Course and C5 was a Coupe lighttee and faster than a Z06 of the same era and would hang with a brand new GT3 on a fast section of Road Atlanta in 2007.
The Coupe would be competing with other C's and might be bunched with SLK's occasionally. Not sure of the exact weight but if the Coupe were to be modified it'd have to be making almost 300 whp to keep up with a C32. Not sure if a 2002 Coupe with an M62/M90 would be enough.
The Coupe would be competing with other C's and might be bunched with SLK's occasionally. Not sure of the exact weight but if the Coupe were to be modified it'd have to be making almost 300 whp to keep up with a C32. Not sure if a 2002 Coupe with an M62/M90 would be enough.
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BUT I do think there was the C320 coupe in manual tho which could be what you want on the track.
I think you can get around 275-280hp with all the possible mods you can do on the 112. I would ask waveykat about that to confirm tho.
Last edited by FrankW; Sep 30, 2010 at 08:36 PM.
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hey norm...welcome back. LOL
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
if you gonna turn it into a track car and just have fun then the C-coupe is obviously the better choice. find a C320 coupe...stripe it down and you'll have the most reliable engine out of all the w203 and the lightest chassi possible on the 203 platform.
+1
The C320 with a stick is best. Interior taken out
That will be one hell of a fun car. Or go get the C55 and do the same The C320 Coupe can be had for pretty little money. May take some time to find the right one but it will be worth it in the end. Good luck.
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Agreed. While the Vette in my garage is pushing 600bhp it is still no good for the track. Drag strip yes but for a track car the C320 Coupe I would rather have. The Vette is not a good handler at all. I hear the new ZR1 is but I would never touch one. For 100K I am buying another Maserati/Ferrari or Porsche.
Last edited by C280 Sport; Sep 30, 2010 at 10:55 PM.
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Agreed. While the Vette in my garage is pushing 600bhp it is still no good for the track. Drag strip yes but for a track car the C320 Coupe I would rather have. The Vette is not a good handler at all. I hear the new ZR1 is but I would never touch one. For 100K I am buying another Maserati/Ferrari or Porsche.
Exactly, the Vette is designed for the Straight line. I would NOT buy a 100k chevy. I would definately buy a Turbo Porsche for that.
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Not sure if you have time behind the wheel of the new Corvettes but there are built like crap. Our little W203's are built better and there almost 1/3 the price. Fast cars no doubt but once inside
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Anyone who thinks a Corvette has no potential on a track is hella ignorant. And I would be immediately banned for saying more. The rules say I can't call someone absolutely stupid beyond belief if they say a W203 coupe would be a better track car than a Vette.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
Last edited by LILBENZ230; Oct 1, 2010 at 04:27 PM.
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Anyone who thinks a Corvette has no potential on a track is hella ignorant. And I would be immediately banned for saying more. The rules say I can't call someone absolutely stupid beyond belief if they say a W203 coupe would be a better track car than a Vette.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
The rules allow me, however, to say that a couple of people in this thread don't know anything about cars at all.
When you actually know stuff about cars you learn to respect their strengths regardless of whether you would own them or not. The Corvette has excellent track abilities off the showroom floor. It's also easy to mod and work on and can be turned into a beast. It'll never be as nice inside as a German sports car like a 911. I don't understand why some people refuse to acknowledge that a car they don't personally like has any positive trait at all. It's ignorance.
What people in this thread dont know anything about cars?
Last edited by C280 Sport; Oct 1, 2010 at 04:45 PM.
