C230 Sport Coup

OK Braniacs, and dead parrot aficionados

Someone mentioned that a starter can be easily repaired.

Considering parts.com lists a rebuilt at 450, I think I'd rather try to fix it.

Which parts below do I need?

Amazingly, mercedes see's fit to sell every tiny bit of the starter as

a seperate part. Sweet

See below.
A0051513401

Glyn M Ruck

So you have determined that its the starter. Is it a Bosch starter? If so:

All Bosch starters, gas or diesel have the same basic design, but the sizes and housings are different between different models. Get the right parts!

Wear parts are basically:

1/ Bushings: 3 total. One in each end, and one in the middle. The latter I
don't think carries much load. Cost: about $1 each from the Bosch
distributor.

2/ Brushes: 4 in total. You can buy either a brush assembly for $45 with the
4 brushes already mounted, or 4 loose brushes for about $15 total. If you
get loose brushes get ones with small u-shaped metal ends welded to the
copper braid. They are much easier to solder to your brushholder.

The above are Bosch prices not dealer.




Rebuild procedure:

1. Unscrew the two small screws on the commutator housing (back) this
releases the brush holder.

2. Unbolt the two studs in the back. Now the commutator end comes off after
removing a circlip on the end of the shaft, and the rotor is loose, but
don't pull it off yet.

3. Loosen the 3 screws holding the solenoid to the front housing.

4. Between the solenoid and the starter motor is a small rubber piece. See
if you can loosen it. Carefully wiggle and separate the front housing.

5. Solenoid and starter can be separated at the solenoid end. Take off the
solenoid. (To prevent binding wipe off any dirt or corrosion on the solenoid
plunger before reassembly)

6. Determine shape of bushings. The gear end bushing is in the bellhousing
on starters for transverse engine models, and in the front housing on
longitudinal engines. Replace front and rear bushings if worn.

7. To get at the middle bushing remove the ring and c-clip in front of the
gear. Slide off gear assembly. Take out plate holding middle bushing.
Replace if worn.

8. Check brushes. New brushes have about 8mm between the tip and the copper
braid. I'd replace them if they are more than half worn. Also if the
bushings were really bad the starter shaft has been riding out of center,
and the brushes have been wearing irregularly and need replacement.

9. Snip off the braided copper holding the old brushes. Don't lose the
springs! File off any remains from the brush holder. Solder on new brushes.
Make sure they are soldered well. Each brush will pass 100's of amps at
startup!

10. Inspect the commutator. If pitted (from arcing) file down until clean
copper. If out of round use a lathe.

11. Assemble the parts. Grease bushings and gears lightly. You don't want
grease on the commutator or too much so that it can spatter on the clutch.

Your choice on Solenoid replacement. Check it out. Obviously check all other components for breakage or undue wear. If you don't mind the effort you can do this really cheaply & effectively.


Take the dead parrot by the head & beat it 10 times on your workbench - blue feathers everywhere - Have an alcoholic beverage of your choice. Refit the starter motor. Thereafter, uncontrolled drinking permitted due to huge savings. Don't test drive until sober. Garage startup ONLY - permitted.

If it's a damn Valeo starter same basics apply. I've never worked on a Valeo starter.

drb930

#20, and #50
Solenoid and a set of brushes should get you going again if the commutator is good, and there is no breaks in the armature. You need a growler to check the armature, which no one will have.
Look at the brushes, if they are worn, then you found your problem, and solenoids go out all the time, you do have a few miles on her.

phister

most auto parts stores will have starter rebuilding kits. Most of the time its the brushes that go out because they'll eventually lose contact, do do the solenoids as mentioned above. I would start with those then work my way down the list.

C230 Sport Coup

I called my local auto electric store, Autolectrics in Campbell.
Rebuilt starter $140 + tax= ~$155...ouch.
Oops, not in stock, we'll rebuild yours for 129.

Hmmm...so can I jut buy the parts?
Yes,

Selenoid 25
Brushes 10
Bushings 5

Dead parrot.....priceless.

That sounds better. Picking up the stuff tomorrow.

Since I can bang on it, and get it to work, I'm guessing it's the selenoid,
also since if it was working, I'd hear it, and I don't.

C230 Sport Coup

Yup, 160K + and going strong!

drb930

Todd,

She will be good to go with the Solenoid, the brushes are just insurance.
Take some pictures?
You have me beat by 100K

Thanks,
Dave

Glyn M Ruck

I'll bet the brushes are stuffed at Todd's mileage.

C230 Sport Coup

God this sucks.
I was able to get the bottom bolt out (E torx)
but the top one, it looks like the only way to get it is with like a 2 ft extention.

Off to the hardware store.....

Glyn M Ruck

It can't be worse than an Alfa. Most people cut a hole in the tunnel!

C230 Sport Coup

That would've have been preferable.

Funny you should mention Alfa.
I always say, Mercedes makes the best Italian Cars in all of Europe.
And guess what? My starter ISN'T Bosch, it's freakin' Denso, which I believe is a Japanese company, but oddly enough, it's made...
you guessed it. Italy.


So, I managed the get the bolts undone, I'll post my tidbits of knowledge when the whole project is done.
It was such a god awful job, I spent like 4 hours just getting the thing out.
Partially because I had to jack up both ends of the car to
get under it. Ahhh....some day I'll have a lift or a pit at least.....

So laying on my back, trying to get the sockets + extra extentions through the tunnel.
About 3 ft in all.

Finally got the bolts off, and damn, the wiring is all on top, and there is NO slack to get to the top.
So, I unbolted the selenoid, and eventually got the 3 nuts off,took like an hours, and got the whole mess out.

The steering column is kinda in the way, and i have a feeling that the trick is unbolting the steering column.

Getting it out was a complete Kluge. I can't see how i'll ever get it back in.
There must be a trick to swing the piece of steering column out of the way.
So nice of MB NOT to include anything like a procedure for replacing the starter in the W203 DVD. I mean, it is NOT straigtforward.

Assssholes.

Now to see about Disasembling the thing, but I have a feeling the parts will be wrong since it's not a Bosch.

C230 Sport Coup

Well, doesn't look like the brushes are the problem.
It's seriously gunked up, I have a leak somewhere perhaps the crankshaft seal?
It's an oily mess under there.

The parts are wrrong, and it looks like I still have about 1/2 the brushes left.
The Selenoid looks seriously gunked up, so perhaps I'll just clean it and
put it back together.

But, enough for today, I have a party to go to.

Glyn M Ruck

A Denso starter???? Where do they come with that? All SA cars have Bosch. Some weird things happen with US delivered cars.

I would have expected worn brushes in a Bosch - but Denso (or Nippon Denso as I know it although this is obviously an Italian plant of theirs) is an unknown to me.

C230 Sport Coup

Wait it gets better. I was cleaning it up today, and ...
Would you believe that stamped into the front of the thing,



Yes, Magneti Marreli parts in a Mercedes.
Whats the world coming to?
In any case, the thing was just seriously gunked up.
After cleaning it, I think it would be fine.

The new selenoid was the wrong one, and the brushes didn't fit either,
but wouldn't have mattered, as my soldering iron wasn't hot enough to melt the
solder they had used.
I guess I'll just take it in and have them replace the brushes.

Glyn M Ruck

I hate Magneti Marelli electrics. Changed all my Alfa's to Bosch.

C230 Sport Coup

Yeh, can you beleive it?
MB contracts out to Denso, who contract out to MM,
and thats what I got.

It's having new brushes put in as we speak.
My sweet woman running my errands while I'm at work.
And she's even cute.

I couldn't find anyone who had a Bosch unit in stock.
Actually, mine's not in bad shape.

Glyn M Ruck

If you ever see a cheap Bosch going grab it & rebuild it. Much more reliable.

C230 Sport Coup

My "rebuild" is done.
$15.
Yes, Fifteen dollars.

They replaced the brushes, that's all it needed.

Once again, thanks to PAECO Pacific Auto Electric in Sunnyvale.
Check out the photo's on the walls from when they were on 101
instead of the frontage road (because the frontage road WAS 101).
What was once a pretty industrialized area,
now they are all alone surrounded by hotels.

They are honest, (to a fault! They coulda told me I needed a complete rebuild but
didn't) do good work,
the prices are great (100 for complete rebuild),
and are a family run business that's been going for generations.

Stepping in the door, is like traveling back in time, to when
agriculture was the main export of Santa Clara Valley, the
the architecture of their now ancient but functional building
was the in thing. They are the best!

I highly recommend them. Thank you Lachelle !

pcy

You can't beat $15 for starter rebuild.
You can't find places that does rebuilds these days; all other places want to replace parts.

Excellent!!

C230 Sport Coup

Yeh, the last of a dying breed. Kragens is being absorbed by OReilly Auto parts.
Not many choices in Auto parts anymore.
Economy Imports has been gone for year, same with Grand Auto,
Auto Zone just sux, and what I saw in both AZ and O'rielly was all crap.

I was looking for a decent jack.
Not to be found.
The one I bought from Kragens for 20 bucks with Jack stands is now 50.

Glyn M Ruck

Now for an evening of uncontrolled drinking & deceased parrots- Sonoma Valley's best. $15 is laughable. That was worth the effort.

C230 Sport Coup

So, I'm happy to report the starter is back in, though I need to do a little more
to get it ready to start. I nearly tore the intake manifold off, but that wasn't necessary.

There IS a trick, thats not properly documented.

I made a video, and at some point when the job is done, I'll do a write up.

I think I may have to charge people to get a copy though.
Theres nothing on the web to tell people what I discovered, and
if I had know it at the start the job would've gone sooooo much simpler.

I did a lot of extra work for not having a properly written procedure,
and that includes the WIS documents, though they helped a little, but also mislead me
into thinking I'd need to pull the intake, since on the
M271 they pull the supercharger muffler which is in the same spot
as in the intake on a M111.

(Thanks so much to Karo for his help!)

So keep an eye out for my DIY to be posted out there, in the great void
called the internet, sometime soon.

Meanwhile you want the info, you gotta paypal me biitch !

ohlord

Beats paying $169 for a bosch unit from www.autohausaz.com
Now your knuckles can get back to healing

C230 Sport Coup

Yeh, + a $100 core + shipping.
Fugetaboutit!

Start those paypal payments a comin' all you ho's with M111 coupes.
You will be mine when you need help with your starter.

C230 Sport Coup

Well, it's finally done. She's off the jackstands, and drove myself to work today, hallelujah!
Praise be to da lard!
It's always a pain working on stuff at home, not having all the right tools, wandering in circles searching for that missing 10 mm socket, bolt, or wrench. Doing things out of sequence and having to pull bolts that you just put in and lost the skin off a knuckle doing it.
Trying to get the car off the ground with a $20 Kragen's jack (yeh Kira, I know it was your jack, and I offered to Paypal you
the money but never got your email....)
and then trying to get the car back on the ground and wondering how you got it up so high in the 1st place,
though it doesn't seem high enough.

In this case, the fun was with using 3.5' of socket extensions, and trying to get your hand up where the bolt is,
to make sure the socket is firmly in place so you don't strip it, and at the same time utilizing the
rachet all the way back by the driveshaft.
I'm kicking myself for not using locktite on the bolts....I hope they don't come loose.

I think in the future, I'm going to start to collect floor jacks. I can use the one I have to start it and then put some
heavy duty ones, one on each corner of the car so I can Jack the thing way way up for jobs that require you to lay on your back. I used to have some really nice metal ramps that I sold for $10. You can't even get metal ones these days, but they were too tall anyway. But I wish I had them now, I'd find a way to adapt them. I went shopping to price jacks, and
everything I found was just crap, all made in China, and the $20 jack is now $30 and the jackstands don't come with, they're like another 25 ! A nice jack, decent quality but not great is around 160.
That's about double what it cost a year ago! I wonder if we have ANY industry left on this country.
It's nearly impossible to buy anything that isn't made in China, and we're supposed to accept that the stuff just isn't up to
snuff and breaks like the 2nd time you use it. And now, that they've got us by the *****, the prices are going way beyond
the worth of this junk. Thank god Malcolm Bricklen failed to get China Motors off the ground here.


My GF was under the impression I ENJOY this special form of torture, when it's simply a matter of economics. I'd rather do this than pay $1000.
I'm guessing this job at a dealer would've easily been that. I'll check later just for sheets and giggles.

Thanks to my GF for driving me all this time. Of course I've been buying the gas, and her ML350
is thirsty, just a little bit more than mine, but it takes $75 to fill the tank compared to $45.

I wound up missing 4 of the bolts that hold the bottom pan on, but Crist, it's been like a month, and
I'll just have to go to the hardware store.
I made the mistake of buying those stupid bolts from the dealer once,
I think it was like $8 each with the washer and tax.
Online they are like .90. It's a good thing to throw in with an order along with some extra clips, and
plastic rivets. They alway come in handy, especially when they fall out and the bottom pan is dragging down the highway.