Javvy

hey oneofakind, thankx bro I am good for now let me give it shot with PCY's explanation if I get stuck then I will trouble you............cpbeasley I would suggest that juts wait till the codes pop and then do this, why disturb the setup when you don't need it.....well some one else with more knowledge will be able to give you more logical advise.......

thankx all
Javvy

LILBENZ230

You should use premium fuel, yes. Using 87 will not harm the car. The doomsday ***** gets soooooo old. The car is more than capable of adjusting. It has the common M272 problem. If he had said he had a flat tire and mentioned that he used 87 octane, I'm sure some of you could have tied those two together.

I ran a tank of regular last night on my car because the station was price gouging on premium. (3.09 for regular, 3.69 for premium). The result?



Believe it or not, the engine did not explode. The sky did not fall. We didn't break down, the car didn't catch fire, children did not die en masse around the world. The car ran fine, the mileage was great, no noticeable loss of power.

You guys make way, way too much of a deal about 91 octane (required, not 93) vs 87.

cpbeasley

I thought I felt a disturbance in the w203 matrix when you filled up with 87, matt. you have set off an inevitable chain of events that will ultimately lead to the beggining of the end. we should all say our goodbyes now.

LILBENZ230

Cale, I should also add that going elsewhere was NOT an option at that point because the range had dropped to 4 miles and we were a long way from any civilization. So not only did I risk the future of humanity by using 87, I did so after running the car below 1/4 of a tank and thus destroying the fuel system.

Only none of that happened, as usual.

pcy

that's what the guy who smoked first cigarette said :-)
You have to wait a long time before the effects are seen in his lungs :-)

pcy

Matt, please help me understand the very first 2 statements in your post.

If 87 octane fuel is adequate and as efficient as the engine is designed to, then 91 octane recommendation by MB engineers must be (in your opinion) bull, right? :-)

I like it that you don't just follow others' advice unless it makes sense to you - me too. There are lot of things that don't make sense to me (limited understanding) but they are good for us :-)

W203E35

87 will make your car run like shyt. Let me start by explaining a little. If you have a look at DAS your vehicle should be set to 91. Now the timing from what I came across aren't aggressive so you'll be able to slip through by using 89. Now with 87 you are most likely causing engine knock which will retard the timing. Thus your car running like crap and not performing like it should.

Matt you posted a pic of a car that drove 403miles with an average speed of 49miles obviously your gonna get good miles like that. On my trip to Las Vegas when I just got the car my average was 28 and I had a woody to get there so I was a little trigger happy (some times).....butthole

johnand

Other than the 230K vs. the M272 C230, this is the only other time I disagree with Matt. Karo is right. Star has a setting for octane in 2 octane point intervals. This means the maps can adjust for a difference of 1-2 octane points. If the car is set for 91 (default STAR setting), when you fill with regular, how it WILL adjust is by the knock sensor detecting knock, then retarding the timing. It will keep retarding timing until a threshold is met, then the car will run on a low octane map. Bottom line is the engine IS knocking before the ECU pulls timing.

As PCY points out, this is not a situation where the engine will blow up the 1st time it runs regular. It is the long term affects of the damn engine KNOCKING.

W203E35

^^Words from a master. John, lets say a car is set to 91 in DAS 89 shouldn't make it knock would it? The reason I say this is I am on 93 but use 91. I haven't heard any knock but I don't want it to pull the timing soo back that it's worse than 91 . I heard you were perfectly fine on 93 out here in cali so I take your word i'm ok with 91 on 93 map?

Thanks

Javvy

very well put johnand.......makes is hell lot more sense now...........

PCY.... can you please post the part number for the oil cooler gasket, I cannot read it from the image that you posted.

Thankx
Javvy

pcy

The part number of the gasket (# 15 in the picture I posted) is A272-184-02-80. I bought this gasket at the dealer. I am not sure if this gasket is available at on-line stores.

LILBENZ230

While I respect both of you (Karo and John), this is akin to shortening the oil change interval. At some point it will no longer matter. Past 200k or so, for me, it's a moot point. I don't care if it only lasts 250k rather than 275k. It'll be worthless by that time. I have an oil sample from 94,000 sitting in the garage. It was ran for 13,400 miles on a paper filter without a drop added. I'll have to get that analyzed.

What my photo did not show was that half of that trip was in the smoky mountains. Lots of climbing and demanding stuff on the car. 49mph on an interstate average and 49mph on two lane mountain roads are quite different. I forgot to mention that.

I can detect no difference between 87 and 93 in my C230K in any way, shape, or form. I use 87 very rarely, though. I use Shell VPower and Chevron Techron 93 almost exclusively. But if I can't make it any further and the station has ridiculous prices for premium, I won't pay it. It's not because I can't.. I can. I am just not going to be forced by stations that operate like that. By my estimate my car has ran 87 octane for about 4,000 miles of the 77,000 I've put on it.

PCY - What I mean is that I think you should use 91 octane. I usually do, as I've explained. What I also think you should NOT do is dramatize the effects of 87 usage or make correlations to problems unrelated to octane - not that I'm saying that's what you did. I see this a lot on the forum, though, and each time I just have to at the reactions.

cpbeasley

I believe there to be a disparity between the situational notions made by Matt vs The World.
Matt's trying to discourage fear mongering re: filling up with the occasional tank of 87 as the engine can cope.
John, Karo, et al are trying to discourage consistent use of 87 (ie Javvy) due to detrimental effects of engine knock.

I hope I'm pointing out the obvious here.

Matt, you're right - you didn't experience any foul repercussion bc of its ability to compensate. At the same time, you don't seem to want to surrender to the fact that compensating on a long-term basis is a bad thing, aside from claiming you don't care what it does to your engine. Well, I think the point is being made for the rest of us who are looking to reach your 100k and onto 200k mile marker without trouble caused by filling up with crap fuel. I also agree that certain correlations were probably exaggerated, but the fact that 97 can cause damage on a long term scale shouldnt be discounted.

pcy

You meant 87 octane :-)

let's move on with tinkering with our cars.

pcy

Matt, what would you suggest to Javvy? Continue to use 87 octane for the rest of the ownership of the vehicle? If you'd suggest the use of 91, we're in agreement.

johnand

Yep, should be fine. Just do a check via STAR, you can watch timing and knock sensor to be totally sure.

johnand

Matt, I hear you I really do. I understand your logic completely, but still can't bring myself to be as carefree on such things as you.

I really think the M271 is much more forgiving with octane than the M272 with the big jump in compression ratio on the M272.

I agree with what Cale was trying to say, you think people were being overly reactionary to the use of 87, but I don't think they or I were. As, usual, I think Glyn gave great advice. Change the camshaft magnets, run premium, reset codes, and see what happens. Do I think the low octane fuel caused all the codes? No, probably not, but bottom line the M272 is DESIGNED to run on premium, so I would suggest Javvy fill up with premium just systematically check it off the list in troubleshooting.

M.L.X.

oh come on guys... you guys can't fork up couple extra bucks at the pump?

I accidentally put 89 once. (was in a hurry and wasn't paying attention to the buttons)

two octane shouldn't matter but I got engine knock non the less.

I doubt it did any damage, and other then the engine knock, it ran fine but honestly I'd rather pay the couple extra bucks and not worry about it.

you guys are maniac about your early oil changes, spent buckets on rims/body kit/ect, gawd knows how much on cleaning products to keep your cars shiny, and then go cheap on gas?

come on...

our cars are designed to run on premium, so run premium... what's the problem?

MW_ATL

About 10 years ago, I owned one car that called for 89 octane, for some reason, a motorcycle that insisted on premium and a Toyota that I swear would have let me do a 50/50 mix of gas and water. Out of simplicity, or laziness ...I ended up getting in the habit of putting premium in everything. Honestly, the cost difference is not that great. Of course now, with just the two MB's in the garage it is the norm, but I never noticed.

Oh, and that Toyota, ran 325,000 before I ran it low on oil (my own stupidity)...and I stuck premium in it for the last 8 years of its life. Waste, maybe, but it kept everything simple and the budget easy to predict.

Matt - I would have bought the 87 also, but only about two gallons worth from the SOB.

LILBENZ230

Cale is right. I'm not advocating exclusive use of 87.. there's just so much BS out there about fuels. The BMW dealership told me that Chevron w/Techron 93 octane ruined the 135's HPFP. I knew (and so did he) that that was a known problem unrelated to brand or octane of fuel. Even if Javvy has been using exclusively 87, that doesn't mean it is the cause of his problem. The last thing he needs is for 300 replies telling him if you can't afford 93 you shouldn't own a Benz.

Glyn was spot on. Camshaft issues common with M272, please use premium fuel. Not "ZOMG you used regular!!!!"

A lot of you take extremely good care of your cars and wouldn't dream of subjecting them to the things that I do. It's always been my well documented belief that they are not fragile at all and so I don't treat it with kid gloves. But it's maintained very well and has treated me very well.

pcy

I think Javvy's head is spinning with all the 87 vs 91 octane discussion :-)

LILBENZ230

I bought 7.. but I had no choice. We were really out in the middle of nowhere, it was 4am. I filled up today with Chevron 93 octane. $3.37/gal.

W203E35

Matt you know I love you man. Sometimes I can't put words well together and it might sound I am being aggressive.

Javvy just change the camshaft magnet and you'll be fine. This is a common problem. I had this problem, John had this problem, Trini had this problem, my buddy who just got an 07 E350 had this code stored in STAR. I think it's an 06-07 issue. I haven't heard this issue with the w204 guys...but at the same time I hardly go over to the w204 section.

Glyn M Ruck

Hey guys - I've given the fuel lecture before. John is spot on.

Let's stop talking crap & get on with Javvy's problem.

Do the magnets - we will move from there. I have little doubt MAF is next but let’s be systematic please.

I'm trying to save Javvy money & time.

Javvy

thanks all for you inputs, Magnets are on their way, will pick up the oil gasket and the coolant today, will get the job done this coming weekend reset codes and report back......

but since we are on fuel octane levels out here in NJ we do no get 91, the 3 grades avaliable are 87, 89 & 93.......obviously 93 would be fine but If I want just for hypothicaly reason fill 91 where should I get it I have read some discussion's on mixing fuels like half tank 89 + half tank 93 will give me 91.......well if we really want to go by the specs we should all be filling 91 well thats what mercedes recommends CORRECT????

Love you guys, heated debates like this bring forth a lot of inofrmtaion which is other wise hidden or never ever discuessed.......


Javvy