hosedbenz

Hello all. I'm kind of in a bad way and was hoping for some advice. I had my 03 C230 towed to the local dealership a couple weeks ago because the engine was turning over and then stalling almost immediately. They diagnosed it as a bad camshaft position sensor and ordered the part. Over a week later the part finally arrived and then I got the dreaded call that (in their expert opinion) the engine was no good. The service advisor claims the camshaft position sensor got the engine running but it was running so poorly they they took it upon themselves to investigate further. I was given no details (i.e. bad compression, bent valves, etc) but he wrote "jumped time" on the invoice. I am having a hard time understanding that because the timing chain and cam gears look flawless... so unless something is going on down in the crankshaft, I don't understand what he's seeing. Maybe it's just his guess based on whatever else he saw. I have been trying to follow up for more information since Friday but key people conveniently had the day off, were unavailable or busy, and they are closed for the holiday until tomorrow. Based on how deep they went I can only assume they did a compression test and didn't like what they saw. At any rate, I was advised that they should either halt work or do a $6K engine swap -- no thanks. I paid the bill, $520 for nothing, and had the vehicle towed back home. They quite literally stopped working where they were because the vehicle arrived back home to me with valve cover, air hoses, coil packs, spark plugs, etc thrown in the trunk and the top of the engine exposed, covered with shop rags!

I will be dealing with their unprofessionalism separately but right now my priority is to get the engine covered so I can at least preserve it long enough to arrange for a second opinion and hopefully eventually find a mechanic who will buy it as a project car. This dealership has treated me alright in the past but they really let me down this time. Seems awfully presumptuous of them to assume I was just going to junk the vehicle at their word. Anyway, I tried re-seating the valve cover but there are all sorts of wires in the way, attached to both opposite sides of the engine. I try to lift them as much as possible but it's not enough to squeeze the cover underneath. I am also battling daylight as I am trying to do this after work and am relying mostly on artificial light.

Can anyone give me some key pointers on clearing these huge wires out of the way so I can at least re-seat the valve cover and prevent the engine from getting further harmed by the elements?

I am also attaching some engine pics. I don't think they'll reveal much but would appreciate any insight you might have.

Thanks in advance!

http://s1132.photobucket.com/albums/m566/hosedbenz/

MIKESV8

that's BS man not even gonna lie. contact mb USA and see what they say, i've heard enough from stealerships doing this. it's every MB owners worst nightmare.

fookoo303

If they took it upon themselves to investigate further and tore your top end off without your consent, they should be responsible for re-installing everything. And free of charge since you didn't consent in further inspection. I can't believe they charged you that much and gave you back an open engine.

draz.amg

+1

That's just ridiculous man.. I have a hard time realizing why a good amount of MB dealerships have some of the worst customer service imaginable. You'd like to think you could only expect **** like this from a lower-tier car dealership.. guess not. Contact MB USA and see what they can do if anything.. good luck.

vdubpower

what dealership

Benzben

A quick piece of general advice in any shop/service dispute: I would take a minute or two to snap some pictures of how they left your car. Engine bay, parts left off in the trunk, etc. It will help document your complaint with MBUSA.

phister

I would call MB to complain, they should call the dealership and set them straight and make them reinstall everything free of charge.

mskembo

+1

That is ludicrous, hopefully MB USA will get this straightened out for you. I would raise holy hell until they did.

Jp's_C230k_W203

That really sucks man! I would be so pissed!

OneOfaKindTrini

Damn definately contact MB-USA.

mtnman82

Pure BS. Correct me if I'm wrong here everyone, but aren't the camshaft position sensors covered by a recall? So you shouldn't have even had to pay the $520. Further, if they took it upon themselves to dig into it more without you consent, THEY are responsible for putting it back together.

How many miles are on the car? And have you ever had the infamous '$12 hose' replaced?

I would press them on exactly they meant by 'jumped time'. Does this mean the timing chain jumped a tooth (let them answer - don't offer this up)? Highly unlikely if the timing chain and tensioners are tight. After replacing the sensors, if it still ran bad they should have checked compression and then done a leakdown test on each of the cylinders. If those looked good, they should have checked for a vacuum leak. All this could have been done without removing the valve cover. That's something else I would be asking - 'why did you remove the valve cover'?

Worst case, the timing chain did jump a tooth and you've bent one or more valves. This would mean pulling the head and a valve job. I can't imagine something went wrong on the bottom end - which would be the only real reason you'd need to replace the whole engine.

From the appearance of things, it looks to me like they were trying to take you for a ride. I'd really be interested to know where you are located and which dealer did this (feel free to PM me if you'd rather not post). This is like a bad nightmare from a shade-tree mechanic operation, and not what you would expect from a Mercedes dealer...

mleskovar

Yes, it's what you don't see. Search this forum and you'll find several people that have had this problem but I don't remember anyone having to replace the whole engine. Crankshaft sprocket worn allowing chain to slip/jump teeth. I'm surprised they opened it up without asking you. In my state they can only do work that is authorized to the amount you specify.

Xhale707

That is insane... Where do you live?? There is no way they can do that.. but they did

pwcummings

I would flip the **** out. I would walk right into the showroom floor and pitch the biggest fit in front of EVERYONE in that dealership. I would literally be having the police escort me out of there... ok maybe not that far but I would make sure that whoever was in that dealership to possibly buy a car would know what kinda BS service they are keen to give their customers. But now what you gotta do is pay the $500 to retain a lawyer because the state they left your car in concieveably ruined engine.

samaritrey

lol sounds like me it usually works to

SeaCoupe

Okay gents, cooler heads prevail. Clean Rags/tape generally work fine to cover any debris that might enter your engine. I don't know the issue with your car, but an independent mechanic will be able to check the static timing of your engine and confirm or deny if your timing indeed jumped a tooth.

For all you know the engine is starved of fuel. At this point we don't know. But look at it his way, you won't have to deal with the old stealership jerking you around. Find a good European indie and start fresh. I honestly wouldn't sweat about the valve cover being off. Cover it with a clean towel, or tape it closed.

Do inform us of the of the stealership.

hosedbenz

Thanks for the advice, everyone. I will be calling MBUSA this morning. It is especially helpful to know that they did not need to strip things down this far to perform a compression test because I've been of the mindset that that's why they did this. Something just isn't right here. They didn't even charge me for the camshaft position sensor I waited 10 days for them to order. Just a straight $498 for labor for another $20 for "shop supplies," which I assume are the rags covering my engine. That in itself is a full 30% higher than the quote I received and the service advisor had the stones to claim he was giving me a break and not charging me for them to test the engine post-camshaft position sensor install. Mighty generous of him.

I am going to withhold the name of the dealership for now pending my discussions with MBUSA but I will say that I live in New Hampshire which should make it very easy to figure out. I don't know that I'd go as far as trying to sue them because I've heard these things are hard to prove (not to mention we had to pony up most of our savings to buy a replacement over the weekend -- not a Benz and certainly not from them, LOL), but I haven't ruled it out.

Glyn M Ruck

Do as Sea Coupe says. I would write a polite letter to MBUSA to inform them of the situation. You need them on your side.

If you have the fortitude to go back to the dealer - then ask them to give you all the readings you have paid for - they are yours. i.e explain "timing jumped" (probably mean chain) Ask them to list codes read, compression values by cylinder etc.

Yours is a M271 of 2003 vintage. The MY that gave the most cylinder head trouble with fouled & stuck valves, fouled inlet system & combustion chambers etc. That cylinder head was ultimately redesigned for poor fuel markets.

Then get a good Indy as Ed suggests to check all the basics - valve timing etc.

The CPS could have been one problem but there is a good chance you have a fouled head & that the valves are not sealing properly leading to poor compression readings. If this is found to be the problem then MBUSA might help you toward replacing the head. They know it was a problem and it costs in the $3000 region to replace.

If there is no detonation damage to the head the option is to clean up everything, reseat the valves & reinstall. Then run on Techron or use Techron concentrate.

Did the engine use oil? Did it ever splutter & backfire? Please let us know.

If you get your Indy to pull off the intake - the valves should look like this. Not all full of heavy deposits. Note black crap - that is upstream of the injectors where the fuel can't get to clean.

Good Luck!

hosedbenz

Thanks for your advice. The engine used very little oil. I'd say, at the very most, 2 extra quarts (1.9L) per year above and beyond normal oil changes. No backfires. The engine had been running right up until the morning my wife went out to start it and it stalled. It would turn over, sound normal for maybe a half second and then buck like crazy 3 or 4 times and stall. We tried a couple more times under the belief there was a possible frozen fuel line or water in the gas tank. I can also tell you that the engine had been hobbling somewhat when driven cold. My wife had formed the habit of letting the engine idle for 5 minutes before driving to reduce that. Once it was on the road it seemed fine.

hosedbenz

Let me expand on this a little more. When I got the first callback from the service advisor the day the vehicle was towed in, I inquired with him about the 2009100001 service campaign, because my wife and I had been reading up and learning about this notorious oil leak issue. His response was they had just completed it because, in his words, "we always like to try the 'freebies' first," but that I wasn't going to be able to get out of it for free because the CPS was not covered (just a little accusatory, right?). I felt a little suspicious because at this point they had had the vehicle for 90 minutes, 1 hr 45 min at most. So what's been burning in my mind is, could they have replaced the 2 cam solenoids, magnets and wire harnesses in that amount of time? I do know it's all external. I have looked at the solenoids and they appear in a couple of my photos too, but I can't quite tell if they're new or not. They could be, but I'm not sure. I suppose they would have dirtied fairly quickly.

Glyn M Ruck

Your oil consumption is fine. Get a good Indy to take a look unless MBUSA is in sympathetic mood & comes to the party. What mileage?

Glyn M Ruck

It's possible that 90% of the problem is due to oil in the engine harness. Did they fit pigtales?

EDIT - look for oil down at the O2 sensor plugs.

MBfinatic

Amen. I always share the story of when they destroyed a friends S600 and tried to charge him 11k. Also Another quick story about them. My dad had a 2002 or 2004 S500. Well anyway the front suspension wouldnt work properly (airmatic). He told the stealership about the problem. They gave him a quote of $3,000 to fix it... He went and saw a old friend of his that specializes in BMW & MB. He showed him it was just a hose for the airmatic suspension that didnt even cost a dollar.

Im just sharing some of these stories to prove that if they think you dont know anything about your car they will take advantage of you.

hosedbenz

Per the advice of many of you I called MBUSA and got the ball rolling on a complaint. The response I got was, "They left your engine apart!?" I'm sure they'll also love how my floor mats were moved to the trunk to serve as mats for all the oily, dismantled parts.

Was told to expect a follow-up tomorrow and was also urged to contact the head of the service and parts department at the dealership. That person was unavailable (they're always either out to lunch or at a meeting) and has not responded to my voicemail, which means they're either going to be unresponsive or they're trying to get their ducks in a row because, though I was very friendly and diplomatic, I did mention that I was referred by MBUSA. Probably should have omitted that fact but oh well. I've got nothing to lose. Next stop will be Better Business Bureau and perhaps a free consult with a lawyer or two. I may not get anything out of it but I'll make sure my community knows how MB owners in my area are treated at their local stealership.

mskembo

That's awesome. Even with their faults, I've found MB USA to be at least professional. I'd pull one gun at a time. First MB USA, and then the BBB. If all else fails get all legal on their behinds.