Some facts about the Coupe Bose Subwoofer
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 VW GTI
Some facts about the Coupe Bose Subwoofer
I pulled the sub out from it's hiding spot tonight. They call this thing a subwoofer? It's a tiny, cheap, 4" x 6" oval speaker in a plastic enclosure. 2 wires. I think I'm going to start shopping for a replacement. Someone here said the speaker is 2.3 ohm. I'll try to take the speaker out later to see if there's a label on the voice coil.
Here's an overall picture. I have more detailed pics here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292046119
if anyone is interested. There are tons of fiber cables back there that lead to no where...
BTW: Theres an unused 25 pin d-sub connector wrapped in a foam "bag" stuffed behind the sub. Is this another Tele-aid piece? (I don't have tele-aid)
Here's an overall picture. I have more detailed pics here:
http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=4292046119
if anyone is interested. There are tons of fiber cables back there that lead to no where...
BTW: Theres an unused 25 pin d-sub connector wrapped in a foam "bag" stuffed behind the sub. Is this another Tele-aid piece? (I don't have tele-aid)
Last edited by avlis; 02-13-2002 at 09:52 AM.
#2
Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 248
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 C230K
By all means, post more pictures. Since Bose is fairly well known for the wave radio and it's baffled / ported enclosure, this looks like they took the same approach. Although the speaker is quite small, the overall enclosure is pretty good size in comparision.
#3
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 C230k
I don't know how bose stacks up with car audio, but it has a very poor reputation for home theatre/stereo. IMHO I think it is severly overpriced, this could be another example of that.
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Sitting behind thing freakin desk of mine. Dreaming I was playing my Taylors, and driving my Benz. Long Live The VRAA!!!!!!
Posts: 2,924
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
C230 Sports Coupe
Originally posted by chuckd94
I don't know how bose stacks up with car audio, but it has a very poor reputation for home theatre/stereo. IMHO I think it is severly overpriced, this could be another example of that.
I don't know how bose stacks up with car audio, but it has a very poor reputation for home theatre/stereo. IMHO I think it is severly overpriced, this could be another example of that.
Last edited by TimmyC230boy; 02-12-2002 at 11:14 PM.
#5
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 C230K, Silver, 6-speed, Evo, Roof, Leather, CD, Staggered C7 Wheels
Originally posted by young
i'd rather have subaru's mcintosh system, or lexus' mark levinson.
i'd rather have subaru's mcintosh system, or lexus' mark levinson.
:p
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally posted by TimmyC230boy
I have to disagree with ya there pal, Bose is one of the best out there.
I have to disagree with ya there pal, Bose is one of the best out there.
Last edited by vadim; 02-13-2002 at 12:15 AM.
#7
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 Mercedes-Benz C230 Kompressor Sports Coupe
Originally posted by vadim
Yet another example of a brain-washed youth... To educate yourself on this topic, do yourself a favor and look up "Acoustic Research", "B&W", "Boston Acoustics", "Tannoy" to name a few... Bose doesn't even come close to this level.
Yet another example of a brain-washed youth... To educate yourself on this topic, do yourself a favor and look up "Acoustic Research", "B&W", "Boston Acoustics", "Tannoy" to name a few... Bose doesn't even come close to this level.
You know, contrary to what speaker marketing tries to convince you, acoustics is a science, not an art. Tons of companies make better speakers than Bose, because they spend more on them. Bose is a marketing company that does better-than-average speaker/sound system design for the mass consumer at the same price point. Their manufacturing quantities are fantastically high.
That puts them in the middle if you compare them to any brand of audio, but in the highest end of the mass-producers. I'm sure some low quantity speaker maker (a run of 2,000 or so) can make a better speaker than a 100,000 run Bose speaker. However, I doubt any other 100,000 run speaker maker can beat Bose (at the same price point).
What Bose does with car audio systems is offer the best possible audio system based on the BUDGET of the manufacturer. If the manufacturer gives them $100 dollars, you get $100 worth of upgrades. If they get $500, it gets better. If they get $1,000, it gets fantastic.
In the case of the C230... think about it, MB charges $610 for this option. Take 10% off for dealer, then divide by 5 for manufacturing/installation cost and MB profit (using higher end of the typical 3 to 5 manufacturing cost/profit divider you learn in business school). You end up roughly with $100 left over to pay for the upgraded parts Bose is supplying.
Honestly, I think the C230 Bose system is an AMAZING improvement for $100. Imagine if they had had $500 to play with! Other car audio systems are only better because more was spent on them.
In other words, Bose COULD have built a much better system, but like any tuner, they are limited to the manufacturer's budget. I'm sure if MB wanted to offer a $1,500 audio system, giving Bose $500, the results would be nothing short of amazing. Blame MB for this marketing/design choice, not Bose.
Trending Topics
#8
Almost a Member!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: north Philadelphia suburbs
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2002 C230 coupe
Flashman,
I'm with you on this Bose thing. If you consider the size (occupied space), weight and price of the Bose system components vs. the sound quality, I would contend that there is nothing you could buy that would match that combination of variables. The only way to improve the sound is to add weight to the car or take up valuable cargo / passenger space or spend MUCH! more money or, more likely, all three. After making those kind of trade-offs if the sound is not improved then you have a problem. I think it's amazing that Bose can produce as much acoustic output in the bass frequency range as they do with a speaker / enclosure combo that takes so little space and adds so little weight to the car. Aren't space and weight important considerations in the design of an automobile?
I'm with you on this Bose thing. If you consider the size (occupied space), weight and price of the Bose system components vs. the sound quality, I would contend that there is nothing you could buy that would match that combination of variables. The only way to improve the sound is to add weight to the car or take up valuable cargo / passenger space or spend MUCH! more money or, more likely, all three. After making those kind of trade-offs if the sound is not improved then you have a problem. I think it's amazing that Bose can produce as much acoustic output in the bass frequency range as they do with a speaker / enclosure combo that takes so little space and adds so little weight to the car. Aren't space and weight important considerations in the design of an automobile?
#9
Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?
I understand there is no grill in the package shelf to let sound enter the cabin space, so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to expect good sound from this speaker without better exposing it to the cabin.
Of course, driving without the shelf has its own drawbacks (privacy, mostly) but if the sound means that much to you... Has anyone thought of cutting a hole in the shelf and covering it with a nice Bose (or other) speaker grill?
Just curious. I'd like to see you folks get the most from your Bose systems, as I realy enjoy mine in the sedan, but realize they're different designs.
I understand there is no grill in the package shelf to let sound enter the cabin space, so I'm wondering if it's reasonable to expect good sound from this speaker without better exposing it to the cabin.
Of course, driving without the shelf has its own drawbacks (privacy, mostly) but if the sound means that much to you... Has anyone thought of cutting a hole in the shelf and covering it with a nice Bose (or other) speaker grill?
Just curious. I'd like to see you folks get the most from your Bose systems, as I realy enjoy mine in the sedan, but realize they're different designs.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by young
i'd rather have subaru's mcintosh system, or lexus' mark levinson.
i'd rather have subaru's mcintosh system, or lexus' mark levinson.
I'ma big BA fan myself... we use them in most mobile applications I've done (one for me, two for dad, one for my brother) and I am elated with the results... there are better out there... but I like the bostons and they are at a good price-point.
I use a lot of AR stuff at home... very good for the price. McIntosh is beyond me, as are most of other audiophile grade stuff, but AR and BA represent an EXCELLENT compromise in price for the discerning ear.
BOSE blows in every application I've experienced... sometimes more or less than others.
I'm preparing a new setup with bostons for the Z3... this one is gonna hurt my checkbook bigtime.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by MB-BOB
Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?
Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?
the shelf acts to create a second eclosure where the waves are subject to constructive interference AND the shelf will slow down the waves (imperceptively to the ear) and that allows a fuller sound to come through.
EXAMPLE... I have a simple 3-speaker sytem hooked up to my computer in my study... 2 composites and a sub. while I'm in here working withe the door (french) closed, it sounds nice and clear and full... but my wife hears it as "boomy" in the other room since the room acts as a secondary enclosure and the door slows the exit of the sound into the living room.
I can't put all the right terms with it (its been 5-years since physics... I went to B-school), but this is the general idea.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by MB-BOB
Young, what I'm trying to imagine is... after squeezing himself into that Z3, where does dasMafia have any extra room for speaker upgrades of any kind?
Young, what I'm trying to imagine is... after squeezing himself into that Z3, where does dasMafia have any extra room for speaker upgrades of any kind?
the trick is finding somewhere to mount the amp... probably along the front wall of th trunk. using a 5-channel Alpine (decent amp on close-out) or a 6-channel ADS (PAIN in my wallet but SWEET). the full-range speakers are BAs although the installer is pushing for "Focals" (??).
the install part is only going to be about $400 or so, the rest is parts. the trick is to use the stock locations, of which I have 7.
#14
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 VW GTI
Originally posted by MB-BOB
Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?
Dumb question 'cause I want to learn something here. For those who dislike the subwoofer in the Coupe, have you driven the car with the package shelf removed? If so, does the sound improve with the shelf removed?
For the record, my take on the subwoofer is that it produces low tones but without punch or precision. Sure it's amazing that the little speaker can produce those frequencies but a 4x6 doesn't move any air. I prefer to feel bass rather then hear it. I can feel the door speakers more than the sub.
I'm thinking about going with an Infinity Basslink. Anyone have any comments about this?
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 444
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2000 BMW Z3 2.3 Roadster (hardtop current ly attached)
Originally posted by avlis
I'm thinking about going with an Infinity Basslink. Anyone have any comments about this?
I'm thinking about going with an Infinity Basslink. Anyone have any comments about this?
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 1,148
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
13 Posts
2004 SL55, 2015 A250d, 2016 GLC250d
The fibre cables are for the phone controller and probably the voice recognition.
The 25 way D type is the phone controller connection aswell.
Theres possibly a 9 way d-type somewhere there for the voice recognition, or perhaps thats somewhere completely different !
R
The 25 way D type is the phone controller connection aswell.
Theres possibly a 9 way d-type somewhere there for the voice recognition, or perhaps thats somewhere completely different !
R
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 VW GTI
Originally posted by dasMafia
thats a pretty decent piece for the money... about the only one I'd consider in the class... you would be better off with a single 8- or 10-inch in a custom enclosure with a simple 1-channel amp... probably run you about $350-400.
thats a pretty decent piece for the money... about the only one I'd consider in the class... you would be better off with a single 8- or 10-inch in a custom enclosure with a simple 1-channel amp... probably run you about $350-400.
This place is selling Basslinks for $260.00 seems like a deal:
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/INFBASSLINK
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 VW GTI
I pulled the speaker out of the enclosure to see what it looked like. The magnet is actually quite large. There is no label for the impedence. Here's a pic:
#20
Super Member
We could all argue about audiophile issues all day long, but the question is about the woofer Bose uses here. Do NOT replace this woofer. It is a very special long, long throw, large voicecoil, stiff coned, low Fs woofer. The 2.7ohm reading is a DC resistance measurement, not AC. It is a 4ohm impedance woofer. The woofer is designed to work in the transmission line encosure(plastic box) specifically. It is a function of the 1/4 wavelength of the resonant freq desired. I could go deeper but you get the idea! To make sound you must move air, the louder the more air, the lower freq the more air. The air moved is determined by the cone size Sd and the throw Xm. A small woofer can only move so far before it reaches its limit. Thus, the total output is limited by these factors, not amp power(assuming you have a good amp). Once the max is reached no amount of power with make it any louder. The Bose system is also EQ'ed to rolloff the lowest freqs and punch up the midbass making it sound louder because the woofer no longer has to strugle with the long excursions needed by the lowest of freqs. There are better systems out there, but not in that size of an enclosure and that much power. Happy Listening!
#21
Almost a Member!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C230 Kompressor
Originally posted by vadim
Yet another example of a brain-washed youth... To educate yourself on this topic, do yourself a favor and look up "Acoustic Research", "B&W", "Boston Acoustics", "Tannoy" to name a few... Bose doesn't even come close to this level.
Yet another example of a brain-washed youth... To educate yourself on this topic, do yourself a favor and look up "Acoustic Research", "B&W", "Boston Acoustics", "Tannoy" to name a few... Bose doesn't even come close to this level.
Larry
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally posted by mdp c230k
We could all argue about audiophile issues all day long, but the question is about the woofer Bose uses here. Do NOT replace this woofer. It is a very special long, long throw, large voicecoil, stiff coned, low Fs woofer. The 2.7ohm reading is a DC resistance measurement, not AC. It is a 4ohm impedance woofer. The woofer is designed to work in the transmission line encosure(plastic box) specifically. It is a function of the 1/4 wavelength of the resonant freq desired. I could go deeper but you get the idea! To make sound you must move air, the louder the more air, the lower freq the more air. The air moved is determined by the cone size Sd and the throw Xm. A small woofer can only move so far before it reaches its limit. Thus, the total output is limited by these factors, not amp power(assuming you have a good amp). Once the max is reached no amount of power with make it any louder. The Bose system is also EQ'ed to rolloff the lowest freqs and punch up the midbass making it sound louder because the woofer no longer has to strugle with the long excursions needed by the lowest of freqs. There are better systems out there, but not in that size of an enclosure and that much power. Happy Listening!
We could all argue about audiophile issues all day long, but the question is about the woofer Bose uses here. Do NOT replace this woofer. It is a very special long, long throw, large voicecoil, stiff coned, low Fs woofer. The 2.7ohm reading is a DC resistance measurement, not AC. It is a 4ohm impedance woofer. The woofer is designed to work in the transmission line encosure(plastic box) specifically. It is a function of the 1/4 wavelength of the resonant freq desired. I could go deeper but you get the idea! To make sound you must move air, the louder the more air, the lower freq the more air. The air moved is determined by the cone size Sd and the throw Xm. A small woofer can only move so far before it reaches its limit. Thus, the total output is limited by these factors, not amp power(assuming you have a good amp). Once the max is reached no amount of power with make it any louder. The Bose system is also EQ'ed to rolloff the lowest freqs and punch up the midbass making it sound louder because the woofer no longer has to strugle with the long excursions needed by the lowest of freqs. There are better systems out there, but not in that size of an enclosure and that much power. Happy Listening!
Just put a bass-rich CD in your changer/COMAND, stick your head in the trunk and listen. I've never heard a crappier subwoofer - even at moderate sound levels it seems to produce nothing but a mix of parasite resonsnce sounds.
#23
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2008 VW GTI
Do NOT replace this woofer. It is a very special long, long throw, large voicecoil, stiff coned, low Fs woofer. The 2.7ohm reading is a DC resistance measurement, not AC. It is a 4ohm impedance woofer. The woofer is designed to work in the transmission line encosure(plastic box) specifically. It is a function of the 1/4 wavelength of the resonant freq desired. I could go deeper but you get the idea!
#24
Super Member
Originally posted by avlis
I don't plan on putting a different speaker in the Bose enclosure. I'd do away with the entire sub alltogether and replace it with an aftermarket amp/sub. I'd be nice to use the 2 wires going into the bose sub as the speaker-level inputs on the new amp. Can I do this?
I don't plan on putting a different speaker in the Bose enclosure. I'd do away with the entire sub alltogether and replace it with an aftermarket amp/sub. I'd be nice to use the 2 wires going into the bose sub as the speaker-level inputs on the new amp. Can I do this?
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
#25
Super Member
Originally posted by dasMafia
while I can't speak directly for the "quality" of the sound you experience (the purity of the wave, etc...) it will be "fuller" and smoother with the shelf in place.
the shelf acts to create a second eclosure where the waves are subject to constructive interference AND the shelf will slow down the waves (imperceptively to the ear) and that allows a fuller sound to come through.
EXAMPLE... I have a simple 3-speaker sytem hooked up to my computer in my study... 2 composites and a sub. while I'm in here working withe the door (french) closed, it sounds nice and clear and full... but my wife hears it as "boomy" in the other room since the room acts as a secondary enclosure and the door slows the exit of the sound into the living room.
I can't put all the right terms with it (its been 5-years since physics... I went to B-school), but this is the general idea.
while I can't speak directly for the "quality" of the sound you experience (the purity of the wave, etc...) it will be "fuller" and smoother with the shelf in place.
the shelf acts to create a second eclosure where the waves are subject to constructive interference AND the shelf will slow down the waves (imperceptively to the ear) and that allows a fuller sound to come through.
EXAMPLE... I have a simple 3-speaker sytem hooked up to my computer in my study... 2 composites and a sub. while I'm in here working withe the door (french) closed, it sounds nice and clear and full... but my wife hears it as "boomy" in the other room since the room acts as a secondary enclosure and the door slows the exit of the sound into the living room.
I can't put all the right terms with it (its been 5-years since physics... I went to B-school), but this is the general idea.