2002 C230k Transmission Problem
02-15-2012, 01:37 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
Oh the irony. Mr. Lau, I recently had a rather long arguement with the folks on benzworld
about the whole lifetime fill thing.
Now if you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's simply this.
Mercedes back in 2002 included free maint.
But since they ddn't want to have to spend more money than necessary, they declared the
5 speed tranny otherwise known as the 722.6 transmission as filled for life.
So, your dealer is refusing to repair the issue just replace the tranny since after all the tranny is gone since the fluid is burnt, no surprise. And since the fluid is gone, so is the tranny, since it's filled for 'life'.
BUT what is a surprise
is that they are now claiming YOU were supposed to replace the fluid at 39K miles, which was never called for on the 5 speed but was called for on the 7 speed. So, now it's NOT filled for life. I'd write letter to MBUSA declaring your service department as being the equivalent of village idiots, and demand they fix it for free or be sued for not specifying the fluid be changed.
Your dealer has their heads up their *****.
It's no longer filled for life, you should have replaced the fluid??? OH THE IRONY!!!!
Mercedes has superseded FIAT for being the WORST THE WORST in the history of automobiles for the way they treat their customers.
Here's the best part. I'd bet MONEY, they wouldn't replace the transmission.
They'll repair the problem, flush and fill and charge you for a new tranny.
How would you know? I've outright busted them for charging for things they never replaced at
MULTIPLE dealerships for the same parts!!!!!
Even without replacing the fluid, I'd bet the problem could be resolved by fixing the leak,
cleaning the harness, and possibly replacing the transmission computer, but 1st try cleaning and replacing the orings.
If you have a leak, then likely you are also low on fluid.
If the computer is fried, which does happen, it's about $500 but does require a Star System Diagnostic computer, also known as SDS to do some coding.
In any case, do a search on "all things AT 722.6 related " under my username on this forum for all you'll ever need to know to easily solve the issue.
Drain, flush, fill, replace orings, or rather the 'pilot bushing'.
I have 10 quarts of approved fluid + a filter and gasket, I'll let go for $100.
And then all you need is the dipstick, $25 on ebay.
And a can of electrical cleaner, and the pilot bushing.
Go pull up the passenger side floor and see whats what.
Since it's vaguely possible the tranny is bad, here's what I'd do IN THIS ORDER
Don't flush or drain the tranny, yet.
1. Buy a 722.6 dipstick off ebay.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
If I'm wrong I'll personally buy you a beer.
If it runs ok after that, do a full flush.
No point in flushing a bad transmission.
The LEAK is the source of your problem.
Consider I have 183K miles on my transmission.
It's actually quite robust.
If by chance it's actually bad, and I'd say the odds are 95% against it, a used one can be had for about 1 grand.
about the whole lifetime fill thing.
Now if you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's simply this.
Mercedes back in 2002 included free maint.
But since they ddn't want to have to spend more money than necessary, they declared the
5 speed tranny otherwise known as the 722.6 transmission as filled for life.
So, your dealer is refusing to repair the issue just replace the tranny since after all the tranny is gone since the fluid is burnt, no surprise. And since the fluid is gone, so is the tranny, since it's filled for 'life'.
BUT what is a surprise
is that they are now claiming YOU were supposed to replace the fluid at 39K miles, which was never called for on the 5 speed but was called for on the 7 speed. So, now it's NOT filled for life. I'd write letter to MBUSA declaring your service department as being the equivalent of village idiots, and demand they fix it for free or be sued for not specifying the fluid be changed.Your dealer has their heads up their *****.
It's no longer filled for life, you should have replaced the fluid??? OH THE IRONY!!!!
Mercedes has superseded FIAT for being the WORST THE WORST in the history of automobiles for the way they treat their customers.
Here's the best part. I'd bet MONEY, they wouldn't replace the transmission.
They'll repair the problem, flush and fill and charge you for a new tranny.
How would you know? I've outright busted them for charging for things they never replaced at
MULTIPLE dealerships for the same parts!!!!!
Even without replacing the fluid, I'd bet the problem could be resolved by fixing the leak,
cleaning the harness, and possibly replacing the transmission computer, but 1st try cleaning and replacing the orings.
If you have a leak, then likely you are also low on fluid.
If the computer is fried, which does happen, it's about $500 but does require a Star System Diagnostic computer, also known as SDS to do some coding.
In any case, do a search on "all things AT 722.6 related " under my username on this forum for all you'll ever need to know to easily solve the issue.
Drain, flush, fill, replace orings, or rather the 'pilot bushing'.
I have 10 quarts of approved fluid + a filter and gasket, I'll let go for $100.
And then all you need is the dipstick, $25 on ebay.
And a can of electrical cleaner, and the pilot bushing.
Go pull up the passenger side floor and see whats what.
Since it's vaguely possible the tranny is bad, here's what I'd do IN THIS ORDER
Don't flush or drain the tranny, yet.
1. Buy a 722.6 dipstick off ebay.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
If I'm wrong I'll personally buy you a beer.
If it runs ok after that, do a full flush.
No point in flushing a bad transmission.
The LEAK is the source of your problem.
Consider I have 183K miles on my transmission.
It's actually quite robust.
If by chance it's actually bad, and I'd say the odds are 95% against it, a used one can be had for about 1 grand.
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 02-15-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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Ru2Benzed (12-29-2022)
02-15-2012, 02:25 AM
#27
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2002 C230k Coupe
1. Buy a 722.6 dipstick off ebay.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
Wallace
Last edited by WallaceLau; 02-15-2012 at 02:26 AM. Reason: spelling
02-15-2012, 08:01 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
When it comes to repairs, how can you prove anything?
I had my fluid 'replaced' by a dealer at 80K miles, but then at 120K the thing would barely function. Of course the dealer didn't replace all the fluid, if any. They claimed to replace 4 quarts + the filter. The tranny holds about 9.
I flushed and filled the proper way, and sent a sample out for testing.
And then it ran perfect!
The opinion of the testing lab was that it was never replaced.
How can I prove it?
Well the date code on the filter might've helped if there was one, but
by the time you're standing there with a nasty dirty filter in your hand, who cares?
I had 2 different dealers claim to replace sway bar bushings with the standard ones, which I found strange, since I had AMG bars, and
when I replaced the rear AMG bar with an H&R, well, guess what?
The original AMG bushings were still there. How do I know? Well because they had the 2003 part number, that had been superceded a couple times. They were the ones I had installed.
But that was all under warranty, so the dealers were ripping off MBUSA not me.
Since the warranty expired, nothing out of the ordinary* has required replacement, except a wheel sensor. (* meaning, coil packs, alternator, battery, starter, spark plugs, etc.)
I'll PM you the info on the fluid and filter in the AM. (ok it is AM, but can't sleep)
Just need to pull everything out and make sure I have it all together.
DIY'ing everything is PIA.
BUT at least you know it's done, and done correctly.
Every time I'd take my car to the dealer, they'd seem to break something, and I'd be back
in 5K miles. I did manage to get all the bugs out of the car, and all the needed
updates have been done, so the 2nd 100k miles seems to be going swimmingly...he he.
I also still have my original water pump (now that I've said it...)
and one thing I do is use distilled water.
My local mechanic's mechanic attributes the fact that it hasn't broken to that singular fact.
He doesn't use distilled water. I do.
He wants water pumps to fail.
It's not in his in best interest to use distilled water apparently.
BTW- Since you have a 2002. Have you completed the service campaign for the leaky cam sensor seals?
And have to checked to see if you have Valeo radiator that kills transmissions?
I think I posted that link already in this thread, but there a number of posts about that.
If the tranny has coolant in it, well still the proper thing to do is full flush, and replace the radiator, before replacing the tranny.
So, one would think. Mercedes knows about abunch of faulty radiators that do major damage.
Do they.
a, replace the $150 radiator free of charge before it fails?
b. Tell you, that you need a new radiator before it leaks, and you pay for it for a nominal fee? OR
c. Wait for it to fail and then tell you need to do 10 grand in repairs.
Go ahead....guess. I haven't heard of one instance where a dealer, identified a Valeo radiator before it failed and recommended replacement under the TSB.
People only find out about the TSB through the web, identify which radiator they have, and replace themselves if needed. OR when it's already failed. Thats when the dealer will find the time to inform you.
Ask your dealer, the one who is certain you need all these repairs, if you have a Behr, or a Valeo radiator, and is the reason the tranny needs to be replaced is in any way related to the TSB?
Deer in the headlights look from the mechanic? TSB whu? Ha, yeah, replace the tranny and leave a faulty radiator.... that would be something.
When you pull out the 'pilot bushing' (orings for gawds sake!)
enough fluid will fall out to send for testing.
I'd get it tested. Post the results here.
Call Blackstone and request a free test kit.
Water and or glycol would be bad thing in a measurable quantity.
Anyway, just to reiterate what I said before, but in a different way,
you can't possibly say a transmission is bad, if the wiring harness is full of tranny fluid
and has (possibly) fried the transmission control unit (TCU).
Without a clean harness, and functioning TCU how can a proper diagnosis be made?
That's like saying your TV is broken, when the cable and power are disconnected.
That's the main logic the dealer seems to be lacking.
They just want all the money and they want it now.
This is gonna be a step by step thing.
Even in the TSB's from the factory it's step by step, no shotgun approach.
Dealers are rouge entities.
I had my fluid 'replaced' by a dealer at 80K miles, but then at 120K the thing would barely function. Of course the dealer didn't replace all the fluid, if any. They claimed to replace 4 quarts + the filter. The tranny holds about 9.
I flushed and filled the proper way, and sent a sample out for testing.
And then it ran perfect!
The opinion of the testing lab was that it was never replaced.
How can I prove it?
Well the date code on the filter might've helped if there was one, but
by the time you're standing there with a nasty dirty filter in your hand, who cares?
I had 2 different dealers claim to replace sway bar bushings with the standard ones, which I found strange, since I had AMG bars, and
when I replaced the rear AMG bar with an H&R, well, guess what?
The original AMG bushings were still there. How do I know? Well because they had the 2003 part number, that had been superceded a couple times. They were the ones I had installed.
But that was all under warranty, so the dealers were ripping off MBUSA not me.
Since the warranty expired, nothing out of the ordinary* has required replacement, except a wheel sensor. (* meaning, coil packs, alternator, battery, starter, spark plugs, etc.)
I'll PM you the info on the fluid and filter in the AM. (ok it is AM, but can't sleep)
Just need to pull everything out and make sure I have it all together.
DIY'ing everything is PIA.
BUT at least you know it's done, and done correctly.
Every time I'd take my car to the dealer, they'd seem to break something, and I'd be back
in 5K miles. I did manage to get all the bugs out of the car, and all the needed
updates have been done, so the 2nd 100k miles seems to be going swimmingly...he he.
I also still have my original water pump (now that I've said it...)
and one thing I do is use distilled water.
My local mechanic's mechanic attributes the fact that it hasn't broken to that singular fact.
He doesn't use distilled water. I do.
He wants water pumps to fail.
It's not in his in best interest to use distilled water apparently.
BTW- Since you have a 2002. Have you completed the service campaign for the leaky cam sensor seals?
And have to checked to see if you have Valeo radiator that kills transmissions?
I think I posted that link already in this thread, but there a number of posts about that.
If the tranny has coolant in it, well still the proper thing to do is full flush, and replace the radiator, before replacing the tranny.
So, one would think. Mercedes knows about abunch of faulty radiators that do major damage.
Do they.
a, replace the $150 radiator free of charge before it fails?
b. Tell you, that you need a new radiator before it leaks, and you pay for it for a nominal fee? OR
c. Wait for it to fail and then tell you need to do 10 grand in repairs.
Go ahead....guess. I haven't heard of one instance where a dealer, identified a Valeo radiator before it failed and recommended replacement under the TSB.
People only find out about the TSB through the web, identify which radiator they have, and replace themselves if needed. OR when it's already failed. Thats when the dealer will find the time to inform you.
Ask your dealer, the one who is certain you need all these repairs, if you have a Behr, or a Valeo radiator, and is the reason the tranny needs to be replaced is in any way related to the TSB?
Deer in the headlights look from the mechanic? TSB whu? Ha, yeah, replace the tranny and leave a faulty radiator.... that would be something.
When you pull out the 'pilot bushing' (orings for gawds sake!)
enough fluid will fall out to send for testing.
I'd get it tested. Post the results here.
Call Blackstone and request a free test kit.
Water and or glycol would be bad thing in a measurable quantity.
Anyway, just to reiterate what I said before, but in a different way,
you can't possibly say a transmission is bad, if the wiring harness is full of tranny fluid
and has (possibly) fried the transmission control unit (TCU).
Without a clean harness, and functioning TCU how can a proper diagnosis be made?
That's like saying your TV is broken, when the cable and power are disconnected.
That's the main logic the dealer seems to be lacking.
They just want all the money and they want it now.
This is gonna be a step by step thing.
Even in the TSB's from the factory it's step by step, no shotgun approach.
Dealers are rouge entities.
Sigh, if the dealership had at least "told her" it needs to be changed back at 39k miles, I am pretty sure she would've done it even if they made her pay for it. I just talked to her earlier and she had done every maintenance on-schedule (she has paperwork), but nobody once told her the tranny fluid needs to be changed (until now). So this is definitely not her fault.
What is the contact information for their regional/district manager? I tried looking it up on MBUSA.com but had had no luck... There is a post on BenzWorld listing all the regional manager's e-mail address etc., but that was posted back in 2008. Been looking for something more up-to-date. Is there a thread somewhere that I missed? My google-fu may still need more practice...
Seriously? And nobody goes to jail for that!!?? I would expect your backyard mechanic to pull these kind of stunts, but at a MB dealership? Holy crap.
Alright, will do, seems like this route has been the general consensus everywhere, and after some reading it is definitely something I can comfortably do. Will get started as soon as we finish arguing with the dealer and get her car towed back to my garage. Now off to eBay for that dipstick...
Thanks so much for the offer! I'd definitely take those off your hand!! How do I pay you? PayPal?
Wallace
What is the contact information for their regional/district manager? I tried looking it up on MBUSA.com but had had no luck... There is a post on BenzWorld listing all the regional manager's e-mail address etc., but that was posted back in 2008. Been looking for something more up-to-date. Is there a thread somewhere that I missed? My google-fu may still need more practice...
Seriously? And nobody goes to jail for that!!?? I would expect your backyard mechanic to pull these kind of stunts, but at a MB dealership? Holy crap.
Alright, will do, seems like this route has been the general consensus everywhere, and after some reading it is definitely something I can comfortably do. Will get started as soon as we finish arguing with the dealer and get her car towed back to my garage. Now off to eBay for that dipstick...
Thanks so much for the offer! I'd definitely take those off your hand!! How do I pay you? PayPal?
Wallace
Last edited by C230 Sport Coup; 02-15-2012 at 05:22 PM.
02-16-2012, 03:44 PM
#30
MBWorld Fanatic!
Walter, sent you a PM about the 10 quarts of ATF 134, trans filter and pan gasket for $100.
I decided to include shipping, as long as it's under $20.
Check your "Private Messages" here on the forum for all the details.
I'll make the same offer to anyone here as long as you're in the 48 states, who ever
wants it.
I'm tired of holding onto to stuff I won't use, or stuff I won't use until 3 years from now.
I also have a set of ML, GL, R class wiper blades, an oil filter for an M272, oh what else,
oh yeah, stock brake pads that are supposed to be for AMG 4 pot brakes, but only show up on
EPC as being for W211 e class...$45.
I decided to include shipping, as long as it's under $20.
Check your "Private Messages" here on the forum for all the details.
I'll make the same offer to anyone here as long as you're in the 48 states, who ever
wants it.
I'm tired of holding onto to stuff I won't use, or stuff I won't use until 3 years from now.
I also have a set of ML, GL, R class wiper blades, an oil filter for an M272, oh what else,
oh yeah, stock brake pads that are supposed to be for AMG 4 pot brakes, but only show up on
EPC as being for W211 e class...$45.
07-07-2012, 04:46 PM
#31
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
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2002 C230k Coupe
Hello guys,
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I got the car running again and thought I should report back. Sorry it has taken a while, I got another project dumped on my lap and I didn't have time to post. Excuses and excuses, right? ;-)
I followed the advise and checked the various things. TCU was clean (no fluid there) and the conductor plate is also clean (nothing dirty/wet). I then proceeded to look under the car and lo-and-behold the transmission was covered with oil, leaking from that infamous plug that goes to the TCU. I went to the dealership and bough a new housing for that plug (new o-ring, etc), and BIG thanks to Todd ("C230 Sport Coup") for the new filter, gasket, and ATF fluid. I then proceeded to drain the transmission fluid, drop the pan, replaced the filter, and re-filled the fluid. Thereafter... the car ran like a champ!!
First and foremost I can't believe the dealership wanted to sell us a new transmission when all I needed is a fluid change. Secondly, I drained out maybe 3.5 qt. of fluid and it took me about 5 qt. to fill it back up to the proper level. So I am 1.5 qt LOW, and nobody at the dealership caught that.
The bottom line is, we DO NOT need a new transmission. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the existing transmission. In fact, I have a feeling if we just top off the fluid it will run again... (Although I am glad we changed the fluid, more on that later.) The big question in my head right now is this: What if we pay the dealer $$$$$$ for a "transmission rebuild", they do a fluid change, give the car back to us, and say "enjoy your new transmission"? There is no way we could've know we just got scammed. Yes I am wearing my tin-foil hat, but they can totally walk off with $7,580 of our hard-earned money and there is nothing we can do to about it. Long story short, I am so glad I stopped by the forums for advise.
Now, some more food for thought. The magnet inside the transmission pan is COVERED with a thick layer of "sludge", so much that I have to scrap them off the magnet. Thankfully there is no metal shavings, but the sludge can easily fill a shot-glass. The filter is functional (not "caked" with craps) but you can tell it won't have much life left. The car has "only" 78,000 miles, so the whole "fill for life" things... well, don't believe any of it.
Secondly, Mercedes's service department was a joke. They first told me "transmission fluid change is always part of the maintenance program, if you don't do it every 40,000 miles your warranty is void". I said that's not what my owner's manual says. He then proceeded to show me the maintenance manual for a 2011 (yes, two-thousand-eleven) C-class. I said ours is a 2002 and it says "filled for life". Then he started back-paddling and said MB "must've changed it later" and "if you had taken your car to us for service, we would've told you." I laughed and told him "all 2002 models INCLUDE complete maintenance service until the warranty expires. You DID do all the maintenance, why did you not change the transmission oil back when we took the car to you at 39,000 mile." He then said the transmission fluid change is not part of the "free" program, "you have to pay for the service and you must've opt-out". I said "wait a second, we bought the car partially because ALL maintenance service is included for the first 4 years. If MB decided to change it, wouldn't that be their responsibility?" He said "well you have to take it up with MB USA, all I know is transmission fluid change is optional and optional services are not part of the free maintenance program". I ask him "so basically you are telling me there is an new, *optional* maintenance service that nobody had told us about it, but if we don't perform this *optional* service we void our warranty?" After that he said "I didn't say anything about warranty, it is up to you how you take care of your car". So at this point I gave up.
Anyway, I pretty much lost faith in Mercedes. Yes I admit this is probably not the right "brand" for us; if we had just take the car to the dealership every time, and pay them whatever they asked and do every service they recommended, the car will run forever. However for the same money I can buy TWO Toyota, run them forever, and never set foot at a dealership. Maybe poor peons like us who cannot afford to get oils changed at a dealership has no business owning expensive German imports, to be very honest I don't necessary find that logic flawed, perhaps just blame ourselves for wanting something we can't truly afford.
I hope my experience will be helpful to others who stumble across this thread. Feel free to sound off and let me know what you think. Now off to fixing the climate control (blowing hot air to driver but nice cool air to passenger) and sunroof (jammed track)!!
Wallace
Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I got the car running again and thought I should report back. Sorry it has taken a while, I got another project dumped on my lap and I didn't have time to post. Excuses and excuses, right? ;-)
I followed the advise and checked the various things. TCU was clean (no fluid there) and the conductor plate is also clean (nothing dirty/wet). I then proceeded to look under the car and lo-and-behold the transmission was covered with oil, leaking from that infamous plug that goes to the TCU. I went to the dealership and bough a new housing for that plug (new o-ring, etc), and BIG thanks to Todd ("C230 Sport Coup") for the new filter, gasket, and ATF fluid. I then proceeded to drain the transmission fluid, drop the pan, replaced the filter, and re-filled the fluid. Thereafter... the car ran like a champ!!
First and foremost I can't believe the dealership wanted to sell us a new transmission when all I needed is a fluid change. Secondly, I drained out maybe 3.5 qt. of fluid and it took me about 5 qt. to fill it back up to the proper level. So I am 1.5 qt LOW, and nobody at the dealership caught that.
The bottom line is, we DO NOT need a new transmission. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with the existing transmission. In fact, I have a feeling if we just top off the fluid it will run again... (Although I am glad we changed the fluid, more on that later.) The big question in my head right now is this: What if we pay the dealer $$$$$$ for a "transmission rebuild", they do a fluid change, give the car back to us, and say "enjoy your new transmission"? There is no way we could've know we just got scammed. Yes I am wearing my tin-foil hat, but they can totally walk off with $7,580 of our hard-earned money and there is nothing we can do to about it. Long story short, I am so glad I stopped by the forums for advise.
Now, some more food for thought. The magnet inside the transmission pan is COVERED with a thick layer of "sludge", so much that I have to scrap them off the magnet. Thankfully there is no metal shavings, but the sludge can easily fill a shot-glass. The filter is functional (not "caked" with craps) but you can tell it won't have much life left. The car has "only" 78,000 miles, so the whole "fill for life" things... well, don't believe any of it.
Secondly, Mercedes's service department was a joke. They first told me "transmission fluid change is always part of the maintenance program, if you don't do it every 40,000 miles your warranty is void". I said that's not what my owner's manual says. He then proceeded to show me the maintenance manual for a 2011 (yes, two-thousand-eleven) C-class. I said ours is a 2002 and it says "filled for life". Then he started back-paddling and said MB "must've changed it later" and "if you had taken your car to us for service, we would've told you." I laughed and told him "all 2002 models INCLUDE complete maintenance service until the warranty expires. You DID do all the maintenance, why did you not change the transmission oil back when we took the car to you at 39,000 mile." He then said the transmission fluid change is not part of the "free" program, "you have to pay for the service and you must've opt-out". I said "wait a second, we bought the car partially because ALL maintenance service is included for the first 4 years. If MB decided to change it, wouldn't that be their responsibility?" He said "well you have to take it up with MB USA, all I know is transmission fluid change is optional and optional services are not part of the free maintenance program". I ask him "so basically you are telling me there is an new, *optional* maintenance service that nobody had told us about it, but if we don't perform this *optional* service we void our warranty?" After that he said "I didn't say anything about warranty, it is up to you how you take care of your car". So at this point I gave up.
Anyway, I pretty much lost faith in Mercedes. Yes I admit this is probably not the right "brand" for us; if we had just take the car to the dealership every time, and pay them whatever they asked and do every service they recommended, the car will run forever. However for the same money I can buy TWO Toyota, run them forever, and never set foot at a dealership. Maybe poor peons like us who cannot afford to get oils changed at a dealership has no business owning expensive German imports, to be very honest I don't necessary find that logic flawed, perhaps just blame ourselves for wanting something we can't truly afford.
I hope my experience will be helpful to others who stumble across this thread. Feel free to sound off and let me know what you think. Now off to fixing the climate control (blowing hot air to driver but nice cool air to passenger) and sunroof (jammed track)!!
Wallace
07-07-2012, 07:44 PM
#32
Super Member
You're supposed to change transmission oil and filter (and do gasket too since its off) every 39,000 miles (60,000 km). Since you just done your first tranmission oil & filter change at 78,000 mile and found quite a bit of sludge,... even though you didn't find metalic bits,... the sludge was hanging onto the magnet so there must be metal in them sludge. Also, rip open your old transmission oil filter,... check for metallic bits and sludge in there.
Anyways,... I would suggest you do another transmission oil and filter change in 19,500 miles at 97,500 mile (mid point),.... then another one at 117,000 mile (next scheduled 39,000 mile) and then every 39,000 mile thereafter,....
I've done partial transmission oil and filter changes like you just did,.... but I've never done a full transmission oil change. Given all the sludge you found in yours,.... I think doing a full transmission oil change wouldn't be such a bad idea to get rid of all the sludge that's in the transmission,... if you find sludge in the transmission oil pan, wouldn't there be sludge in other parts of the transmission and torque converter? Todd has done full transmission oil change and a DIY on it,... at that time I think his coupe had more than twice the mileage of your gf's,... he or someone else who has done a full transmission oil change would have a better understanding of it than I. Given that doing a full transmission oil change involves what is basically doing a partial transmission oil change which you've already done,.... so you're halfway there already,... followed by pumping the old transmission oil out at the transmission cooler line near the front radiator, litre by litre and replacing it litre by litre,...
Yes, some of the parts and specialized fluids are a bit harder to find than those for a regular car,.... and generally cost a bit more,.... then again they're generally better quality parts,.... but generally most of the maintenance you can do one your own,.... since most replaceable parts, fluids, sensor, filters, etc,... are easily accessible. Sure, you'll have to increase your inventory of tools like mityvac, motive power bleeder, torx screwdrivers, invertered torx (star) socket wrench set, etc,... but considering how much it cost to go to a Mercedes-Benz stealership,... or for that matter any brand stealership,... you'll save a lot of money doing routine maintenance and repairs on your own,... and it's more satisfying!
For your HVAC,... read up on the "Noisy Air Conditioner ?? Stepper Motor Replacement / Clicking & Hissing" sticky at the top,.... while you likely don't have the broken foot vent (common),... should replace it anyways if you tear apart the dash,.... you likely have another plastic lever that's broken,.... go through the sticky,... do the HVAC resynch,.... does it stop by itself or not? If not something is broken,... more likely a broken plastic lever than a broken motor,... play around with HVAC selections to figure out what's broken,...
BTW,... for pano, use Dupont Krytox 105 (ebay,... where else?),... basically liquid teflon to make sure its all lubed properly,... Todd has a DIY on pano,... your Mercedes-Benz Stealership would probably classify lubing the pano as "optional maintenance".
Speaking of lubricant,... now that you've fixed your gf's transmission and saved her all that money, she should see you as a big hero,.... and at the beginning you were afraid of messing with her car because you were afraid she would blame you if it gets worst,.... you just saved her over $7,000,.... I think she owes you something! Oh BTW,... that Dupont Krytox 105 liquid teflon lubicant is kind of toxic on the skin,... so use a more safer lubicant for play,.... (pun intended)
Anyways,... I would suggest you do another transmission oil and filter change in 19,500 miles at 97,500 mile (mid point),.... then another one at 117,000 mile (next scheduled 39,000 mile) and then every 39,000 mile thereafter,....
I've done partial transmission oil and filter changes like you just did,.... but I've never done a full transmission oil change. Given all the sludge you found in yours,.... I think doing a full transmission oil change wouldn't be such a bad idea to get rid of all the sludge that's in the transmission,... if you find sludge in the transmission oil pan, wouldn't there be sludge in other parts of the transmission and torque converter? Todd has done full transmission oil change and a DIY on it,... at that time I think his coupe had more than twice the mileage of your gf's,... he or someone else who has done a full transmission oil change would have a better understanding of it than I. Given that doing a full transmission oil change involves what is basically doing a partial transmission oil change which you've already done,.... so you're halfway there already,... followed by pumping the old transmission oil out at the transmission cooler line near the front radiator, litre by litre and replacing it litre by litre,...
Yes, some of the parts and specialized fluids are a bit harder to find than those for a regular car,.... and generally cost a bit more,.... then again they're generally better quality parts,.... but generally most of the maintenance you can do one your own,.... since most replaceable parts, fluids, sensor, filters, etc,... are easily accessible. Sure, you'll have to increase your inventory of tools like mityvac, motive power bleeder, torx screwdrivers, invertered torx (star) socket wrench set, etc,... but considering how much it cost to go to a Mercedes-Benz stealership,... or for that matter any brand stealership,... you'll save a lot of money doing routine maintenance and repairs on your own,... and it's more satisfying!
For your HVAC,... read up on the "Noisy Air Conditioner ?? Stepper Motor Replacement / Clicking & Hissing" sticky at the top,.... while you likely don't have the broken foot vent (common),... should replace it anyways if you tear apart the dash,.... you likely have another plastic lever that's broken,.... go through the sticky,... do the HVAC resynch,.... does it stop by itself or not? If not something is broken,... more likely a broken plastic lever than a broken motor,... play around with HVAC selections to figure out what's broken,...
BTW,... for pano, use Dupont Krytox 105 (ebay,... where else?),... basically liquid teflon to make sure its all lubed properly,... Todd has a DIY on pano,... your Mercedes-Benz Stealership would probably classify lubing the pano as "optional maintenance".
Speaking of lubricant,... now that you've fixed your gf's transmission and saved her all that money, she should see you as a big hero,.... and at the beginning you were afraid of messing with her car because you were afraid she would blame you if it gets worst,.... you just saved her over $7,000,.... I think she owes you something! Oh BTW,... that Dupont Krytox 105 liquid teflon lubicant is kind of toxic on the skin,... so use a more safer lubicant for play,.... (pun intended)
07-10-2012, 08:14 AM
#34
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I looked around for that a bit, if I understand correctly there is a risk that if you pressurize the transmission cooler line too much it could cause damage. I think it may be safer to just do several partial-change in succession, which I am now fairly comfortable with (and in reality quite easy). Plus, besides the magnet I don't see sludge build-up anywhere else (yet), so I hope we are OK.[/QUOTE]
Nah... out of all the toys that requires lube, car parts is my least favorite... (j/k)
I spoke too soon, turns out it's just low on refrigient. I am gonna pin that one on the dealer too: they want her to do a full A/C system diagnostic to find out "what's wrong" and based on the sound of that I thought her AC system is toasted. Then yesterday I plug in my HFC134a refill kit and saw the pressure being on the low side, I decided to refill it just for kicks and now both vent blows nice cold air... No idea why it blows hot air on the driver side before, but hey it's fixed... I am not complaining!
Speaking of lubricant,... now that you've fixed your gf's transmission and saved her all that money, she should see you as a big hero,.... and at the beginning you were afraid of messing with her car because you were afraid she would blame you if it gets worst,.... you just saved her over $7,000,.... I think she owes you something! Oh BTW,... that Dupont Krytox 105 liquid teflon lubicant is kind of toxic on the skin,... so use a more safer lubicant for play,.... (pun intended)
Cheers,
Wallace
07-10-2012, 11:58 AM
#35
Super Member
With a partial transmission oil change, you only changed out about 5 litres (you say qts, I say litres) of transmission oil (usually its only about 3 litres) out of the approximately 8 litres that the transmission holds. The new is clear red and the old is usually dark brown. Thus, after you drive around, you mixed the old with the new,... and that's why it looks brown. Now it should be quite a bit lighter shade of brown than the really dark brown that was at the bottom of the transmission oil pan when you drained it. Its not the colour that's important but the lubrication characteristics,... you already changed out more than half of it,... so you're good to go. Doing another partial would drain out 3 litres but more than half is new,... so you're really just getting about 1.25 litre of the old stuff overall,... and after putting in another new 3 litre,... you'll be up to about 75% new overall,... but its really not worth it at this point.
Like I said,.... I would suggest you do another transmission oil and filter change in 19,500 miles at 97,500 mile (mid point),.... then another one at 117,000 mile (next scheduled 39,000 mile) and then every 39,000 mile thereafter,....
Doing another partial transmission oil change soon would be a waste of time and money,.... right now, the transmission works fine, right? So if it ain't broken, don't fix it. Wait until the car hits 97,500 miles and then do another partial transmission oil and filter change then (current gasket should still be good, so don't replace that yet),..... Then when the car gets to 117,000 miles do another partial transmission oil and filter change with gasket change and get back on your regular every 39,000 mile change thereafter. And of course, regularly check that pilot bushing adaptor for any new transmission oil leak!
You don't need to change the transmission oil pan gasket that often,... once every 39,000 miles should be fine.
I will have to look up on that DIY, do I have to pull my roof liner off? I think that's the last major item before the vehicle is "ready for action". Right now the roof has been manually closed (pop interior light, use hex key) but the sensor still think it's open. Meaning if I push the button it goes "clark clark clark" and doesn't close the shade. It's summer and the sun gets hot....
Try to resynch the sunroof by pushing and holding the close button for about 30 seconds. If your sunroof had to be manually closed, there's a possibility that was because the sunroof motor housing got warped,... not enough lube in the sunroof track so sunroof motor was overworked,.... take a look at the sunroof motor to confirm (pop interior lights,...)
See Todd's (C230 Sport Coup) CL203 Coupe Pano-roof Maintenance - MB lube Grease Part #s, gears, & fixes thread
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...ml#post4831561
Drb930's Dave's 2002 C230 Coupe Sunroof "Grinding Noise Fixed" Thread
https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...of-thread.html
Last edited by SunnyRayToronto; 07-10-2012 at 12:02 PM.
07-11-2012, 04:13 AM
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Thanks!!!
Wallace
12-29-2022, 10:39 AM
#37
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Oh the irony. Mr. Lau, I recently had a rather long arguement with the folks on benzworld
about the whole lifetime fill thing.
Now if you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's simply this.
Mercedes back in 2002 included free maint.
But since they ddn't want to have to spend more money than necessary, they declared the
5 speed tranny otherwise known as the 722.6 transmission as filled for life.
So, your dealer is refusing to repair the issue just replace the tranny since after all the tranny is gone since the fluid is burnt, no surprise. And since the fluid is gone, so is the tranny, since it's filled for 'life'.
BUT what is a surprise is that they are now claiming YOU were supposed to replace the fluid at 39K miles, which was never called for on the 5 speed but was called for on the 7 speed. So, now it's NOT filled for life. I'd write letter to MBUSA declaring your service department as being the equivalent of village idiots, and demand they fix it for free or be sued for not specifying the fluid be changed.
Your dealer has their heads up their *****.
It's no longer filled for life, you should have replaced the fluid??? OH THE IRONY!!!!
Mercedes has superseded FIAT for being the WORST THE WORST in the history of automobiles for the way they treat their customers.
Here's the best part. I'd bet MONEY, they wouldn't replace the transmission.
They'll repair the problem, flush and fill and charge you for a new tranny.
How would you know? I've outright busted them for charging for things they never replaced at
MULTIPLE dealerships for the same parts!!!!!
Even without replacing the fluid, I'd bet the problem could be resolved by fixing the leak,
cleaning the harness, and possibly replacing the transmission computer, but 1st try cleaning and replacing the orings.
If you have a leak, then likely you are also low on fluid.
If the computer is fried, which does happen, it's about $500 but does require a Star System Diagnostic computer, also known as SDS to do some coding.
In any case, do a search on "all things AT 722.6 related " under my username on this forum for all you'll ever need to know to easily solve the issue.
Drain, flush, fill, replace orings, or rather the 'pilot bushing'.
I have 10 quarts of approved fluid + a filter and gasket, I'll let go for $100.
And then all you need is the dipstick, $25 on ebay.
And a can of electrical cleaner, and the pilot bushing.
Go pull up the passenger side floor and see whats what.
Since it's vaguely possible the tranny is bad, here's what I'd do IN THIS ORDER
Don't flush or drain the tranny, yet.
1. Buy a 722.6 dipstick off ebay.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
If I'm wrong I'll personally buy you a beer.
If it runs ok after that, do a full flush.
No point in flushing a bad transmission.
The LEAK is the source of your problem.
Consider I have 183K miles on my transmission.
It's actually quite robust.
If by chance it's actually bad, and I'd say the odds are 95% against it, a used one can be had for about 1 grand.
about the whole lifetime fill thing.
Now if you have no idea what I'm talking about, it's simply this.
Mercedes back in 2002 included free maint.
But since they ddn't want to have to spend more money than necessary, they declared the
5 speed tranny otherwise known as the 722.6 transmission as filled for life.
So, your dealer is refusing to repair the issue just replace the tranny since after all the tranny is gone since the fluid is burnt, no surprise. And since the fluid is gone, so is the tranny, since it's filled for 'life'.
BUT what is a surprise
is that they are now claiming YOU were supposed to replace the fluid at 39K miles, which was never called for on the 5 speed but was called for on the 7 speed. So, now it's NOT filled for life. I'd write letter to MBUSA declaring your service department as being the equivalent of village idiots, and demand they fix it for free or be sued for not specifying the fluid be changed.Your dealer has their heads up their *****.
It's no longer filled for life, you should have replaced the fluid??? OH THE IRONY!!!!
Mercedes has superseded FIAT for being the WORST THE WORST in the history of automobiles for the way they treat their customers.
Here's the best part. I'd bet MONEY, they wouldn't replace the transmission.
They'll repair the problem, flush and fill and charge you for a new tranny.
How would you know? I've outright busted them for charging for things they never replaced at
MULTIPLE dealerships for the same parts!!!!!
Even without replacing the fluid, I'd bet the problem could be resolved by fixing the leak,
cleaning the harness, and possibly replacing the transmission computer, but 1st try cleaning and replacing the orings.
If you have a leak, then likely you are also low on fluid.
If the computer is fried, which does happen, it's about $500 but does require a Star System Diagnostic computer, also known as SDS to do some coding.
In any case, do a search on "all things AT 722.6 related " under my username on this forum for all you'll ever need to know to easily solve the issue.
Drain, flush, fill, replace orings, or rather the 'pilot bushing'.
I have 10 quarts of approved fluid + a filter and gasket, I'll let go for $100.
And then all you need is the dipstick, $25 on ebay.
And a can of electrical cleaner, and the pilot bushing.
Go pull up the passenger side floor and see whats what.
Since it's vaguely possible the tranny is bad, here's what I'd do IN THIS ORDER
Don't flush or drain the tranny, yet.
1. Buy a 722.6 dipstick off ebay.
2. Check the level. Low right?
3. Buy "Pilot Bushing". Replace orings.
4. Pull up passenger side floor.
5. Disconnected TCU
6. Clean the harness and TCU, douse liberally with Electrical cleaner.
7. Top up fluid level.
8. Leave TCU disconnected overnight per Seacoupe.
9. Reconnect.
10. Drive.
If I'm wrong I'll personally buy you a beer.
If it runs ok after that, do a full flush.
No point in flushing a bad transmission.
The LEAK is the source of your problem.
Consider I have 183K miles on my transmission.
It's actually quite robust.
If by chance it's actually bad, and I'd say the odds are 95% against it, a used one can be had for about 1 grand.
