drb930

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...of-thread.html

Dave's 2002 C230 Coupe Sunroof "Grinding Noise Fixed" Thread
I know a lot of you out there are having major problems with your coupe sunroof's.

For those of you that just have that Grinding noise when trying to close at the end, I have some information for you.

My sunroof would work if I pushed up on the motor while trying to operate the sunroof.
Today I took the sunroof motor out to have a look see.

In the 1st picture it shows how I got the motor out, removed the dome light, sun visors, and the grab handles, the driver's door seal partial, and the top part of the driver's A-pillar cover.
The motor will come rite out then.
The 2nd, 3rd pictures show how the sunroof motor transmission gear cover is warped, and the 4th picture shows how low the gear sets in the sunroof motor transmission.
The 5th pictures shows how high the gear sets in the sunroof transmission when pushing up on the gear from the bottom.
There was about .040, or 1mm in play in the gear up and down movement.
The 6th picture shows the cover straightened, and the gear height in the sunroof motor transmission.
I believe the sunroof motor transmission gear cover is a piece of $#!t design, as the cover has no strength. The covers probably would warp after time as it is just junk pot metal, but when these sunroof's are not maintained and greased they take so much torque to open that that junk cover has no choice but to warp.

Tomorrow I plan to go to OSH Mercedes department and buy some may be 1/4" angle and weld up a frame that will use the stock cover bolt hole locations, and will bolt on top of the transmission cover with longer bolts to strengthen the cover up.
Then grease the crap out of the sunroof per the Mercedes Pano clean and lube guide and I think that I will end up with a working sunroof.

More to come-

Attached Thumbnails
Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-001.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-002.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-003.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-004.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-005.jpg
Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-006.jpg


Today I went to OSH Mercedes department.
Picture- and bought a Electrical Cover Plate (it was cheap and already had a hole in it!), some Allen bolts, Washers, and Grommets, for a total cost of about $4.00.

Picture- I used the cover as a template and cut the plate.

Picture- Cover plate fitting.

Picture- Cover plate installed and motor ready to be re-installed in car.

Picture- Sunroof Motor re-installed in car.

Picture- Sunroof works perfectly, but I am going to do the clean and grease procedure now.

Hope this helps some of you guys out there?

Attached Thumbnails
Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-007.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-008.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-009.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-010.jpg Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-011.jpg
Dave's Coupe Sunroof Thread-sunroof-012.jpg

https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...of-thread.html

I am willing to bet that all the sunroofs that have this grinding noise with the gears not engaging properly have the same problem as I did!

Thanks,
Dave

Wharton

Hi all! I am new to this forum, and I would like some advice on the sunroof issues with the C230 Coupe.

I got the classic motor problem alright - the gear cover is warped, and the brrrrrr sound is there, and the grommets on the motor mount bolts are bad; I will try to repair the motor the way David has described, and see how it goes, however my problem now is that the sunroof is partly open on the driver's side, and is completely closed on the passenger side.

Does anyone have a step-by-step MB sunroof removal guide?

What is the best way to close the roof?

drb930

Do you have the sunroof Allen key tool that comes with the car?
When you get the motor down, take the gear only with the tool and try to get the roof closed. You will have to help it with your hand as 1 side is ahead of the other because of the gear not engaging the roof is out of sync.

Wharton

I do have the Allen key, and it served me well , but I did not use the gear to close the roof, although it would have been a safer choice.

It was actually very easy to push the low part of the roof out when I removed the motor. It appears that the motor gear is the only thing that is preventing the cables from free movement, and that is exactly what was needed to free the stuck part of the roof panel.

Anyways, I fixed the roof, and the motor, and everything works fine again.

David, I replicated your solution for the warped gear box cover, so big kudoz to you for figuring this one out.

The good news I have is that worn gear can still be used effectively, and there is no need to discard the worn part; I am sure there is a limit to everything and the degree of wear will vary from car to car, but mine was quite worn, and it is holding up fine. See pic.

Wharton

My problem developed in this sequence:
1. First there was the grinding brrrrrrrrr noise from under the dome light when trying to close the roof during the last 4-inches.
2. The roof would only partially open, and then would not close without a helping hand. Brrrr was just as annoying, but now it would also do so on opening.
3. Finally, it opened only partially, and then refused to close even with the help, and it stuck asymmetrically with the driver side back corner protruding above the surface, which also means that there was a widening crack along the front edge of the roof from right to left. Brrrrrr got also worse.

I removed the dome light to see if I could close it with the Allen key. The system would move to open a little bit, but not move a hair's length to close.

I visited Smythe European in San Jose, CA. They quoted $4+K for the job and parts to fix it. $1200 to close the roof and disconnect the motor.

Then I discovered this guy's photos on Flickr - he solved this problem by putting a lock washer on one of the bolts that hold the motor in place. I looked at that bolt in my car, and discovered that it was, too, inside a very soft and deformed rubber grommet. So I tried to use that solution, and it did not work for me because as I later found out, the problem was much more serious than just one loose bolt.

Then I discovered this forum and David's post about the warped gear box cover.

My gearbox appeared warped: the main symptom being the uneven widening crack along the perimeter between bolts.

So I decided to remove the motor, and
1. Close the roof whatever it takes.
2. If possible fix the gearbox.
3. Ideally make the roof operable again.

I started by exposing the motor and sunroof mechanism. I followed the official MB technician instructions I found on one of the british ask-and-answer sites (attached). I did not remove the whole roof lining, but only lowered the front part of it so that I could work on the motor.

Here's how: 1. Remove grab handles. First pull out the plugs: insert a flat screwdriver in the tiny opening between the plug and the handle to pry it a couple of millimeters down, then use long-tip pliers to pull the plug out. Pull strictly vertically down, do not bend it to any side. Without prying it won't come out because there is a snap lock mechanism there. MB have a special tool for that (looks like a hook, but it is not necessary for the job).

2. Remove sun visors. Three screws: two exposed, and one on the snap fix is covered by a tiny plastic cover. Push it out with something plastic from the inside. The cover is small so be careful - one of mine flew into one of the vents when I pushed it out; so that's now gone for good.

3. Remove the light dome. User manual details that.

4. Remove the rearview mirror. You do not have to disassemble the mirror: just grab the mirror shaft above the ball with one hand, and twist it to one side while pulling down. (That is also the official MB technician way - see attachment).

5. Unscrew the metal frame that used to hold the mirror. Three metal screws.

6. Remove side panels from both A-pillars. This one is a bit tricky, but the key to it is to pull the panel up and out. There are only two metal clips that hold it in place.

7. Partially remove the rubber door lining (headliners) on both sides along the roof lining.

8. Gently bend the inside edge of the roof lining along the front edge of the pano roof opening and pull it down. Then do the same on the sides of the pano roof opening. By now you should be able to access all of the pano roof mechanisms.

Wharton

Then I removed the motor: unscrew all three bolts to do that. I found the angle wrench helpful because it allows to access the bolt from a side (space there is limited - the roof lining hangs there and gets in the way). I would use the wrench for most of the job, but then remove the bolt with my hand so that it does not fall down into the windshield vent.

I discovered that the right rubber grommet was so soft it disintegrated (it was probably badly vulcanized rubber in the first place). The other two were OK, but also soft.

So I went to Pep Boys and got a plastic window roller part fro $2.64 a pair (see pic). It is in their window repair section if you decide to get one. The part is made of hard white plastic and has two openings on both sides: one of the openings is narrow, so I machined that end a little bit to open it up - that was my new grommet. Then I went to Home Depot and got a new bolt because the original MB bolt would not fit into my new grommet. If you decide to change the bolt, pay attention to the diameter length and the thread of the original bolt.

I also followed Dave's advice and bought an electric box cover, and 1/4 inch bolts for the gear box.

Then I straightened the gear box cover. In the process one of the protruding "ears" broke off as it had a crack along the edge where it attached to the round part. David's solution takes care of that so it was not a problem.

Then I removed the protruding metal leafs on the surface of the box cover.
For all metal cutting I used the Dremmel 4000 tool with a new metal cutting disk, which I almost completely used up for the whole job.

Then I moved on to making the reinforcement.

I used the cover as template to mark the form of the reinforcement plate on the metal electric box cover I had bought for 85 cents at the Home Depot; it is really the best template to have. I also made one on paper just in case -- and I still have it -- so if you need it, PM me, and I will send you a scan.

Then I cut it out, drilled holes and polished the edges.

Before assembling the gear box, I washed the metal gear with motorcycle chain cleaning liquid (it is basically diluted kerosene). Then I also removed any debris that were in the gear box itself, and rearranged the lubrication grease to lube the worm and the gear.

Then I assembled the gear box and installed my new grommet/bolt assembly in place of the old one.

After that, I went on to work on the misaligned pano roof. Slighly pushing from the inside, and pushing against the front edge I moved the lower corner of the roof out of its position, and then slightly tapping with my palm along the edge of the pano roof, I straightened it and moved the whole thing to what normally would be the vent position (when the back edge lifts up as much as it can before beginning to slide open the roof).

Then I cleaned the gear cables where they were exposed and interacted with the gear box. There are two cables that touch the gear on opposite sides.

Next, I put the motor back where it originally was, stuck the Allen wrench into the gear and played it back and forth to make sure that the teeth on both cables caught the gear and there was no misalignment: it feels like the gear sinks about 2 mm deeper.

After that, I tightened the bolts: the original bolts had some Loctite on them, so I used a drop of blue Loctite thread locker on each. Again, angle wrench came handy here.

Next, I inserted the Allen wrench back into the gear, and slowly opened the pano roof all the way. It was very easy to do that.

Next I powered the motor and tested it. The motor does not "play" or shake, and the gear shaft does not brrrrr anymore. It does float up and down half a millimeter or so when changing directions, but that is normal. I will post a video of the float.

After that, I assembled everything in reverse order, vacuumed the rails of the pano roof, and took the car on the highway with the open pano to blow out any of the debris, leaves, bugs and dust I missed with the vacuum.

Came back and lubricated the roof rails generously.

Finally, I removed fuse 9 from the fuse box below the First Aid Kit and put it back in to resync the roof motors. Done and done.

Will post pics now, too.

Wharton

Notice the wear on the gear when I first removed the motor. Also, notice the new bolt and grommet on the installation.

drb930

Nice write-up, and thanks for posting the pdf files.
Wow, that gear is pretty worn!
I was going to make the nylon bushings as you did, but ended up buying new rubber grommets, but I think in the long run the nylon bushings would hold up better.
Enjoy your sunroof.

Thanks,
Dave

marzecmike

Great thread, helped me fix the problem, I actually replaced the motor and lubricated everything, after all assembled, manually with the tool it opens perfect.

However ! when I open the shade it opens little by little everytime until it opens all the way. The sunroof does not open at all. When I press the button it clicks (like a relay or switch) but motor does not move. Shade will close just fine. Synchronizing does not do the job, when I try the process the shade opens fine, but does not close, I have to disconnect the battery and reconnect. Then it's back to the usual issue. Does it look like the overhead switch panel is bad, or is there some other method to get it back working?

Thanks.

jasper1912

Thanks for all the information on removal of the headliner. I have an annoying rubbing noise coming from the centre section of the sunroof and need to get access. What complications do airbags in the headliner pose for me?

konaka

Help! my pano roof on my '05 C230 coupe is stuck open. passenger's side is stuck down, driver's side is stuck tilted up and a little bit back. the whole thing is twisted.

I have read about 15 pages of this thread but i dont see how to fix this?

I have read how to remove the headliner to get the motor out and get to the gears, and how to lube the whole thing, but the problem is the thing is stuck

i used an allen key to manually drive the driver's side motor to try to close the roof because it was making the typical krkrkrkr clicking noise, but the manual crank resulted in getting one side pretty much closed and the other side still tilted up. and now the whole thing is stuck like that. no matter how hard I turn the manual crank it wont move the roof.

what do i do?

i am just re-reading Wharton's post and think that i finally get the key to the whole thing.

the gear on the sunroof motor is engaged with two cables, one on each side and if the slipping gear slips more one side than the other then my roof will get out of alignment so to get it back straight i take the motor out so the cables can be moved more freely and get the roof straight

here goes nothing!

this is going to be really hard to do with a broken collar bone...

Wharton

You identified the problem correctly - the the gear engaged one cable, while it slipped on the other so the roof got where it did; once you remove the motor, it is not difficult to move the roof by tapping on the edges of the glass with your palm. It is not a physically demanding procedure, but go easy on your broken bone regardless

konaka

i got it closed.

i took me 1.5hrs (but i have a broken collar bone)

removed headliner as you all described (front half)

removed roof motor and it is warped exactly like the pictures Wharton posted

i will have to make a backing plate just like you all did...

my roof was stuck drivers side up passengers side down and whacking it with my palm didnt lower the drivers side down to the closed position.

the trick i finally stubled on to is to move the lift arm forward towards the front of the car so it will follow its normal path of moving forward and down. to do this i slid a long metal bar into the gap between the glass roof and the car and lightly tapped the bar against the back of the lift arm until it lowered and collapsed down like it is supposed to.

i am so thankful that darn thing closed, rain is coming in 2 days and my overflowing garage workshop has me parking outside.

car is reassembled enough to get to work

and work on the new backing plate may start tomorrow...

you all are life savers, no just roof savers..

C230 Sport Coup

Another happy forum member, and btw, welcome!

edgarinho10

My motor just pooped out today. I started getting excited at the prospect of finding a solution but then I got to the final page, and poop. lol

I will get on this tomorrow and hopefully it solves the problem.

Thank you every body!

edgarinho10

Is it possible to swap the motors?

jroach

Has anyone looked into a different motor that has the same gear or possibly the same motor but marked for different car?

I replaced my motor back in 2008 on a 02 C230k. Worked ok until a few weeks ago.

I was looking at a friends Hynduai (I think) and noticed that the pano roof looked identical to my c230k. I also noticed that the motor for aftermarket Webasto sunroofs are much cheaper than MB wants (now up to $400 vs in 2008 I bought it from the dealer for $303).

I found a few Webasto motors that looked similar: pn# 33S3MR0008 and 33S7OR0013.

While I posted on this thread about 15 pages ago I couldn't tell if somebody had tried this approach.

I have asked a sunroof specialist if they would look into this for me. I'll report back but any thoughts on the approach?

edgarinho10

You can just swap the motors. I ended up doing that and I noticed both motors are equally as powerful so they shouldn't have an issue.

The right one wasn't warped. After all why should it be? It doesn't need excess force.

jroach

Edgarinho10,

Don't disagree. That would get you buy for a few years but once the other one goes then you have to buy something. I might try swapping the motors if I can't find a subtable replacement. I kind of like keeping the car fresh and all parts working.

edgarinho10

I didn't do the recommended maintenance on it.

I figure that if I do keep it up to date, there shouldn't be any problems.

Also my roof is closing without the annoying noise. Just need to grease it up and we are all good to go.

edgarinho10

I ended up going back to it and swapping the motors back to their original purpose. I just swapped the warped cover with the other one which was much more logical since there is a reason why they are numbered differently even though they have the same output. I saved myself 4k thanks to this thread and forum. Thank you everybody!

konaka

i finished the repair today.

just straightened the backing plate. also all metals get stiffer when you bend them so I'm banking on the straightening having a small amount of stiffening affect on the plate too.

i couldnt make a backing plate, broken collar bone hurt too bad

roof works but im concerned it's going to break again if i dont lube it properly

i bought silicon spray and looked around for something to spray, but when i fully open the roof, the tracks are covered in nice slick grease. im not sure where to spray the lube

also i can't remember how to reset the sunroof. i figured it out once but i dont want to fool with it too much and get it out of whack again. how do i reset it?

edgarinho10

Did you disconnect the battery while you were working on it?

konaka

no

edgarinho10

If you do, it resets after a couple of seconds.