Glyn M Ruck

Single torque point, strength & cosmetics.

phister

Ummm... Japanese cars already come with studs like most cars except for European cars. And if they extendeded studs it mounts to the back of the wheel hub. As long as you do the proper installation it will be ok. A lot of the E46 guys that track their car switch to studs.

phister

Here's how standard studs are mounted on cars. Any autoparts store sell replacements for like a dollar.

ncmudbug

I'm not sure I understand the "single torque point and strength" advantages. Maybe you can explain further.

IMHO there are some advantages to having studs - you don't need that little thing to line up the holes. Also, nuts are usually made of softer steel than bolts or studs. This is so when they are torqued, the deform a little to engage all the threads whereas a hardened bolt thread against a hardened hub thread, because of manufacturing tolerances, will not engage all threads equally.

Having said all that, I'm not sure there is really a practical difference. It seems to be a European thing (German at least but IIRC the French use bolts, too. not sure about the Italians). I have to think that there is some advantage I'm not aware of since the Germans have been doing it for so long even though most don't.

tommy

Well, with nuts, you've got pressure on the stud at the hub, and pressure on the nut at the stud. Two possible points of failure. With a lugbolt, you really only have one, in effect.

As phister showed, with "normal" lugnut/stud oem applications, you have the added security of how the rear of the stud attaches. I've got extended studs on the fronts of my crx, and there are no possible issues with doing so. The RX-7 video has nothing to do with a stud conversion, and while it's very funny, is not germane to this thread.

ROLLNNN

haha, video is funny, but sucks for that guy. That video's been around for awhile. People were saying its because he ran cone seat lugs with ball seat wheels, or vice versa, but who knows what really happened!??!

maverik259

lol very funny but ya if you do it correctly and to spec and use loctite, there is no reason you should have any problems, especially for 90% of the simple daily drivers most of us apply our vehicles for!

ncmudbug

That video is funny! Having A wheel come off is very uncommon but it does happen (especially if the guy doesn't torque the lug nuts or bolts) but to have all four come off!!! I guess he's consistent! Yikes!

I guess I was thinking more generally and considering the "normal" hub/stud arrangement. I see your point about the lug stud conversions. I think the only advantage is that it's easier to put the wheels on and theoretically there is the disadvantage you mention. I certainly think it's safe.

I've seen aluminum lug nuts and while they are probably safe, I think I'd opt for steel!

phister

The sr48 lugs I have are made of steel. That's why I like muteki lugs.

maverik259

SR48 FTW!!!!

FrankW

Its more likely he ran the wrong pitch on the lug nuts

Glyn M Ruck

+1 - Not so much a safety issue as an accurate torque issue over time. Proper OE lug nuts are not unsafe. The Germans over play this & underplay cosmetics - a big driver of the practice.

maverik259

alright well my studs came in yesterday and i installed them last night...i'll throw some picks of of how they look now compared to the other length studs etc...

However, did have one major issue (although turned out to be not so major)...

After letting the loctite cure overnight...went to ride the next day only to hear a God awful clanking/clicking noise come from the driver rear wheel...so i got my roommate out and had him walk next to me as i drove a bit to pinpoint the source and it was indeed coming from the right rear...sounded like some metal was making contact with another piece of metal as the wheel rotated. So needless to say we brought her back up into the garage and took his car...

Well finally got around to some investigatory surgery around 3pm today (my way of fearing the worst and attempting to avoid the truth that the studs are not going to work for me)...so got the car up and the right wheel off and started spinning it back and forth trying to pinpoint the culprit. Of course all done carefully since no parking brake or locking the trans down could be done since i needed to be able to manipulate the hub etc...at first it sounded like the studs were penetrating so far into the hub that they were clipping something on the back end or even the heat shield or something IDK it was weird...so i narrowed it down to at least the general area where the sound was coming from, the left lower quadrant if you will...so i started removing the studs one at a time to see if i could alter it...thought maybe one was going in too far or something...after getting 2 off and still no progress i decided to reevaluate the issue...i then started to look at all the connections behind the hub and started to get quite suspicsious of my parking break...well of course to get into that any deeper i was going to have to remove the caliper and rotor to get behind it all...well that was a bich from hell to say the least as I am sure you all know...nothing like removing a rotor that you cctually dont want to destroy lol...well needless to say it was impossible and i had to take a hammer to the back of it and beat it like it owed my dog money...what? ya well despite my best effort of protecting the surface I did leave some small marks in the rotor but i figured oh well what could it really hurt...not like the rear does all that much braking (considreing how much pad life i still had left on my akebonos after installing 3 years and 30k miles ago so whatevs...

anyway back to the point...now i could at least look around a bit more and low and behold i found a small pin and lock thing that was located in the lower left quadrant of behind the hub and connected to the parking brake that kept getting clipped as the wheel spun by the amt of stud that came through the back...of course something i could not avoid or ever foresaw but ya there it was...so after determining it was a benign piece of equipment i attacked quickly and fiercly with my dremmel and took put my stone bit to work grinding it down fractions of a mm at a time until i could spin the hub and hear no clipping from the studs...20 min later i had everything reinstalled and off the jack making sure to lather the sh*t out of the back of the rotor with antiseize and putting on some more loctite on the removed studs...

needless to say there is another parking brake assembly on the passenger side but like i said, i didnt hear anything from over there...well not yet that is...

so about an hour ago, sure enough i go for round 2 with my roommate out to dinner only to get about 5 min into the drive and a soft spot in the music did i hear a softer version of the clipping again...but this time on the passenger side...well at least this time i knew what it was and i opted to continue since it wasn't that far...plus the sound wasn't nearly as prominent as the driver side one was so wth...

and much to my delight by the time we got out of the restaraunt and back home i could no longer hear any clipping which tells my that i didnt need to dremel sh*t, the studs just grinded away the exact amount they needed from that clips passenger side twin so that they could transverse freely...haha, probably not the best way but i guess at the end of the day, it works all the same! but like i said i was able to preserve some structural stability when grinding down the clip making sure it could still accomplish its job of holding whatever pin it was that it was holding in, its just a bit thinner now! lol

again pictures to come tomorrow when its light out!

Sorry for the novel!

TruTaing

I saw this on the vw forums and thought id add to this thread: http://www.race-studs.com/servlet/StoreFront